35TH AVENUE SW FOLLOWUP: SDOT reveals more about August 4th meeting

Been waiting to see what’s next for 35th SW? A week and a half ago, we reported that SDOT had updated its website for the 35th Avenue SW Safety Project to announce an August 4th meeting for information on the next phase of the project (north of SW Morgan). We expected more details would emerge shortly thereafter. Finally, they have – published on the SDOT Blog:

We’re hosting a public meeting for our continued work with the 35th Ave SW Safety Corridor and new West Seattle Neighborhood Greenway planning.

The meeting will be held on Thursday, Aug. 4, from 7 to 9 p.m. at Neighborhood House High Point (6400 Sylvan Way SW).

In 2015, we redesigned 35th Ave SW to reduce speeding, collisions, and injuries as part of our Vision Zero plan to end traffic fatalities and serious injuries by 2030. We have some early data to share at the meeting and want to hear your observations and experiences along the corridor.

We’re also studying routes for a new north-south neighborhood greenway parallel to 35th Ave SW. The new West Seattle Neighborhood Greenway will prioritize people walking and biking on residential streets.

At the meeting, we will share traffic data and you can help us find out where people want to walk and bike in the neighborhood, as well as what barriers stand in their way. Neighborhood greenways mean safer, calmer streets for you and your family.

We’re pairing our outreach and engagement for these two projects – the safety corridor and neighborhood greenway – to get the people who live, work, and travel in West Seattle comprehensive information.

Please join us at the open house and learn how we plan to improve the safety for everyone.

Open House on the 35th Avenue SW Road Safety Corridor Project

Thursday, August 4 from 7 p.m. to 9 p.m.
Neighborhood House
6400 Sylvan Way SW, Room 207

Project manager Jim Curtin had told us that the next phase of 35th SW was being tied to the greenway work. Meantime, still no media notification about this meeting, so hat tip to Michael Taylor-Judd of the West Seattle Transportation Coalition for spotting the SDOT Blog link and posting it tonight on the District 1 discussion page.

A July 16, 2016 (10:49 am)

In his push for ST3 Dow Constantine stated that last year our region added 100 new cars to the road everyday. I know we need alternative modes of transportation to keep this expanding population moving and I’m glad our elected officials are working on a solution. I cannot understand however, why our mayor thinks that eliminating lanes is the solution to help traffic with 100 new cars on the road everyday. Actually, I can understand why he would think that way and it’s because he’s an idiot. I also know that he’ll push his idiotic idea through in the name of safety and most people will buy it because they think the mayor is looking out for us. As someone who travels 35th 4 times a day I can tell you first hand that I have seen 5 times the amount of accidents on the new road diet part of 35th than on the original 4 lane part. It is now a cluster with sudden stop and go traffic that is leading to multiple rear end collisions. I feel less safe on the road diet part of 35th and my travel time has more than doubled during rush hour traffic. Thanks mayor Murray, you’re the best!

wb July 16, 2016 (11:38 am)

Why would you travel FOUR times a day on 35th? People live on 35th. It is not your personal expressway.
- WSB July 16, 2016 (11:51 am)
  
  Maybe he’s a truck or transit driver, or gets to come home for lunch/dinner break. We travel at least six times most days on the south stretch of California … not because it’s our personal expressway but because we need to go to the store, to a meeting, to an interview, to a breaking story … Often two to four times on 35th too, as it’s our next-nearest arterial. – Tracy
- Mike July 16, 2016 (9:31 pm)
  
  People also live next to I90, I5, 405, 520, 522, 167, but everyone in their right mind understands those are roads used by vehicles as a means to go from A to B. Believe it or not, those people living right next to 35th didn’t pay to put that road there themselves. 35th is THE road used by emergency crews to get to accidents, fires, people in need of care so they don’t die. The people that live on 35th made a choice to live on 35th.
- Sunuva July 17, 2016 (8:29 am)
  
  I really don’t understand where this question is coming from. Anyone can travel on 35th as many times as they like or need to. It is an arterial for everyone to use for their many needs. A lot of arguments on here seem to assume that people only use it to commute to work and back. However, there are many different types of jobs that don’t have a normal 9-5 commute to the office. There are also so many more reasons than I could possibly list why people would use this road multiple times per day, but for starters; grocery trips, daycare drop-off and pickup, visiting friends, going to the hardware store, visiting one of our many parks. I just can’t understand where this question is coming from unless it was sarcasm that I missed.

ocean July 16, 2016 (12:57 pm)

We have to travel on 35th 8 times a day -minimum!- during the school year. There is no school bus for high school, we are just outside the boundary to qualify for the school bus for middle school and to qualify for an Orca card from the school district for high school. The middle school and high school start and end at different times. So one kid can either get to school an hour early or the other kid can stay after school for an hour. Due to medical issues, walking is not an option. Even if I could afford an Orca card for each kid, the bus would get to the schools either 45+ minutes early or 5+ minutes after school has begun. And they would have to leave by 5:45 am (hs) / 6:15 am (ms). This does not allow enough time for the medical portion of the morning.

With before / after school activities, the schedules are even more staggered. So I drive them. Every day.

The Hepcat July 16, 2016 (2:01 pm)

A- Couldn’t have said it better. Exactly right.

Howard July 16, 2016 (2:32 pm)

Vision Zero is a fools dream.

JackieB July 16, 2016 (3:20 pm)

I live on 35th and people drive WAY too fast – it’s not safe. If the road diet slows traffic now, I’m all for it.

PSPS July 16, 2016 (4:37 pm)

With all due respect, it was you who decided to live on a major arterial.

OP July 16, 2016 (6:00 pm)

VisionZero is going “to end traffic fatalities and serious injuries by 2030.” Hmm, the city also said it was going to end homelessness by 2015. Guess who I’m NOT believing.

Jon Wright July 16, 2016 (8:07 pm)

What number of traffic fatalities and serious injuries is acceptable to you?
- Mike July 17, 2016 (5:56 pm)
  
  How much money are you willing to waste to realize this won’t reduce the number of fatalities, injuries or accidents? By your logic, we should spend every last dollar to protect people from themselves and never ask anyone to use common sense on a day to day basis. Should we all live in a bubble? Should we all just stay in our homes and never leave, never call 911, etc? What is the breaking point that people start acting like adults and giving a damn rather than expecting everyone else to do everything for them?
  - Jort July 18, 2016 (1:31 pm)
    
    You didn’t answer the question.

Millie July 16, 2016 (8:51 pm)

“A” is right-on! SDOT and the Mayor’s idea regarding road diets has not improved either traffic flow NOR traffic safety. Not on 35th Avenue S.W., not on Delridge, not in Ballard, not Capital Hill.

At the first community meeting re. the ” initial 35th Avenue SW road diet” it was fairly apparent the decision had already been made, however, a public forum is required by statute. In my humble opinion, it’s time for Scott Kubly and the Mayor to consider their future options. I will not make the same mistake again with my vote!

humble opinion,

chemist July 16, 2016 (10:20 pm)

In 2 weeks and change, we’ll get a chance to see what preliminary data SDOT has about the effect of phase 1. Hopefully they’ll put some of that online earlier than the meeting because it might help inform people to discuss a phase 2.

I’m also curious about those new crossings… full lights, HAWK crossings, or little flags and paint ?

East Coast Cynic July 17, 2016 (12:16 pm)

I hope that this next iteration of road diet does not have the effect of taking away parking on 35th Ave SW. Many people who own cars (out of necessity) that live on the street without garage ownership have no choice but to park on 35th Ave SW. Taking away the parking on that street will not cause the cars to disappear but leave them with little choice but to park on nearby streets, thereby taking away parking and clogging the streets for the residents of those nearby streets.

Pushpa July 17, 2016 (3:13 pm)

I’m not sure what the impetus was for changing 35th Avenue to begin with. It certainly doesn’t improve traffic flow. I’m gathering from the comments here that it may have had something to do with reducing accidents and improving safety on the road? I can’t imagine that increasing people’s frustration level when driving in any way contributes to safer driving and fewer accidents. If people are driving too fast, how about just some enforcement of the speed limits? It doesn’t take people too many tickets to revise their driving habits. And it doesn’t punish those of us who are not exceeding the speed limit by cutting the lanes we have to drive in by half.

And it is not only on 35th Avenue. We have the same thing on Roxbury, between about Delridge and 35th. I regularly find my self stuck behind a bus going west up Roxbury to 35th Ave at 20mph up the hill and having no way around to get to my green light to turn left — oops, now it’s yellow, and now red — while I wait for the bus to make it to the top of the hill and make its right-hand turn.

I have a kind of fatalistic view of this. I think it is the result of some paternalistic bureaucrats doing what they have determined is “good for us” and it is unlikely to change. Wish I could be more positive about it.

WSB July 17, 2016 (3:51 pm)

Community pleas to make 35th safer go back at least a decade. Five people were killed on 35th in the span of 7 years. We extensively chronicled what led to the changes – this 2014 story probably has the most compact background, including the project manager’s quote, “We want to create a street that’s more forgiving, so when people do make mistakes, the consequences aren’t so tragic.” That in turn is among other things a reference to this:

http://www.seattle.gov/visionzero/speed-limits

Someone hit by a car (etc.) going 30 mph is reported to have five times the chance of survival of someone hit by a car going 40 mph.
- Mike July 17, 2016 (5:59 pm)
  
  Statistics are only as good as the study. AAA’s says otherwise
  
  https://www.aaafoundation.org/sites/default/files/2011PedestrianRiskVsSpeed.pdf
  - wendy11 July 17, 2016 (8:47 pm)
    
    Well an entire country subscribes to vision zero and it’s working in Sweden–with a growing population. Maybe time to look outside of your own back yard. You think Seattle invented vision 0?
    
    http://www.visionzeroinitiative.com/
    - East Coast Cynic July 17, 2016 (9:07 pm)
      
      Give us Sweden’s larger public transportation infrastructure and geography (seems a little flatter than we are upon initial glance), and I would consider it. But it’s really apples and oranges to compare us vs. them in a variety of ways.
Mat July 18, 2016 (12:35 pm)

Re: Traffic flow, My experience (anecdotal) with the south section has been that even though the top speed is lower the overall flow feels improved because turning cars have a center lane they can pull into and the bus pull offs are bigger so they don’t block a lane either. I find it a much less frustrating experience since it’s eliminated a lot of the stop and go that was happening between lights previously.
- Rockergirl July 18, 2016 (3:04 pm)
  
  Try being that car in the middle lane trying to turn across the steady unending lane of traffic in which no one wants to stop and let you turn. The only chance you get to turn is when the lights make people stop and even then people block the lanes so you can’t turn much of the time. While I like the middle turn lane it is frustrating to not be able to turn for five or more minutes.
  
  Also if you want to turn left or right to get onto 35th during the peak commute hours good luck getting someone to let you do that as well. Not sure what the best solution is but I know it has not helped my commute nor do I feel safer as a driver trying to get in and out of my neighborhood using this major arterial.

jacquelyn vail July 18, 2016 (5:28 pm)

West Seattle NEEDS one or two arterials, OK!! That way there is a definite route for “focused vehicle movement” and the quieter side streets can have more variable and slower speeds to do the walk, bike and play stuff. I’m sorry that people were hurt on 35th just like I would be if people were hurt on 15th, Roosevelt, Lake City Way, I-5 etc. 35th has been an arterial for a long time and people should respect this difference…and not stroll, bike or play on this street. It is simple common sense. That sort of activity should be saved for the side streets behind 35th. The home owners on 35th knew what this street was like when they bought their homes there. Currently with “the road diet” people have become more aggressive drivers, traffic gets bunched at lights and all the stop/go traffic is far more polluting of the air, wasting gasoline and causing increased noise. There is no room for the buses to function properly. This so-called diet is a mess and we hate it

Arbor Heights Neighbor July 18, 2016 (6:18 pm)

Ms. Vail is completely right on! 35th SW is now a nightmare, causing road rage and extra pollution while creating a continuous traffic jam and the new danger of turning cars. Seriously a mess, on purpose no less.

For a real solution, take a good look at 24th NW in crazy-busy, pedestrian-heavy Ballard. Constantly crossing pedestrians use brightly flashing crosswalks.

Put 35th SW back where it belongs and STOP PHASE 2.

Longtime W Sea resident July 31, 2016 (3:50 pm)

I’ll be attending the 35th Ave. Road Diet phase II meeting (Aug. 4, 7-9p.m. Neighborhood House High Point), but I’m not expecting much more than a dog-and-pony show. These traffic-manipulation bureaucrats are hellbent on enforcing these insane Road Diets. Attend this meeting if you’re brave, but bring your aspirin. This is no public hearing. They do not care what greater West Seattle residents think. My hunch is there will be 1 hours and 45 minutes of lies, pr, bs, bogus stats and spin and a few minutes of public comment — likely dominated by hand-picked sycophants who agree with the pencil-pushing, taxpayer-funded civic engineers a.k.a. the civil nannies shoving this improvement down our throats. Brace yourself for more gridlock and frustration on 35th.

Sorry, comment time is over.