Happening now: Holy Rosary School Tree Lot, day 1

The Dude November 28, 2009 (1:35 pm)

Holy Rosary Church via Father John Madigan was in opposition to Referendum 71. We will therefore not be purchasing our X tree from them this year or in the future until they stay out of elections.

We will make a direct contribution to various WS charities instead of letting it be funneled through Holy Rosary.

Looking forward to going to Tony’s or the WS Nursery for our tree, two WS businesses who don’t use religion to further their political agenda.

mark November 28, 2009 (2:01 pm)

Maybe its time they release those names who signed the petition to reverse Ref 71. Dude, if you are correct that Father Madigan did in fact work to defeat Ref 71 I will never buy a tree there again, and if can help it, neither will any of my neighbors….

and upon further review, he looks guilty as charged.http://www.westseattleherald.com/2009/10/22/letters-editor/west-seattle-pastors-urge-rejection-ref-71%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8

Time to find a new place to buy a tree

Too Wycked November 28, 2009 (3:03 pm)

The wreaths are beatuiful!!

Gina November 28, 2009 (3:17 pm)

http://www.holyrosaryseattle.org/Hospitality/Bulletin%20Files/2009%20Back%20Issues/181Nov22.pdf

Father Madigan’s response in the Holy Rosary bulletin.

Bettytheyeti November 28, 2009 (3:37 pm)

Yes, I too would like to know. Thank you for your post.

Vote No on HR Trees!! November 28, 2009 (3:56 pm)

West Seattle please remember it was Holy Rosary and Father Madigan that encouraged members to vote against the equal rights bill this past November.

http://www.westseattleherald.com/2009/10/22/letters-editor/west-seattle-pastors-urge-rejection-ref-71%E2%80%A8%E2%80%A8

If you support equal rights for all you may consider buying your tree elsewhere.

mark November 28, 2009 (4:16 pm)

Boo hoo. He should have thought before he put his pen to paper.

Bettytheyeti November 28, 2009 (4:28 pm)

Yes, Father Madigan, “that IS how democracy works,” I will be buying my Holiday tree at West Seattle Nursery.

k November 28, 2009 (6:51 pm)

Thanks for posting this information. We will take our business elsewhere. Anyone know how Tony feels about Ref 71? I would like to give him biz if he supports all people.

Claire November 28, 2009 (7:38 pm)

At least we live in a democratic society where everyone is able to have their own opinion. I will buy my CHRISTMAS tree at Holy Rosary, because it is a CHRISTMAS tree and not an “x” tree. Merry Christmas!

mark November 28, 2009 (9:15 pm)

Great point Claire. Its too bad Father Madigan forgot one of Christ’s lessons. You know, that whole treat each other equally thing. I will still buy my tree someplace else…..

Z November 28, 2009 (9:39 pm)

Funny bc we were just discussing where to buy our tree this year. We’ve never been to Holy Rosary and my husband said we should go there. After reading this we’re headed elsewhere.

k November 28, 2009 (9:57 pm)

last word on this from me. how is placing the rights of minorities on a ballot a democracy? it’s just plain wrong. equal rights for ALL.

Dale November 28, 2009 (11:10 pm)

The Tree lot sale has been in progress for almost 20 years now. I know, as I co-chaired the same back when we briefly were at the Schuck’s/Hancock Fabric Lot. Over the years the tree lot has raised money for Holy Rosary School, as well as 15% of the net to local charities including the West Seattle Food Bank, Hickman House etc. This is a Parents Club function which was started by parents for the benefit of the school. The money raised is spent in the current academic year.

I’m sorry that many posters have taking offense to Father John’s words but also realize he is entitled to HIS opinion. This is a SCHOOL parent function and does not relfect the opinion of a multitude of parishioners or school parent volunteers. If you were offended by those words I apologize.

I ask that you find a way to forgive those who may have trespassed against you.

WS November 28, 2009 (11:29 pm)

Dale: If you read the note that was posted above, you’ll notice that this is *not* about one person’s opinion, but rather about the stance of the church itself, and using their authority to push a political agenda. Father John himself states that he was speaking on behalf of the church and their official policy.

This is not a single “trespass” by an individual. This is the policy of the church, and an ongoing issue for many people. There’s no need to “forgive” him for his opinion, but there’s also no reason to accept and support an organization that is actively working against an issue many people find important. Much in the same way I doubt catholics would go out of their way to support a Planned Parenthood fundraiser.

M. November 28, 2009 (11:32 pm)

Bought a beautiful tree at their lot today for $25, decided to go there instead of other lots because of the donation…now wishing I had gone elsewhere.
Thanks for sharing the link.
West Seattle Nursery next year, it is.

Dale November 28, 2009 (11:56 pm)

Yes I had read Father John’s comments in the Herald and in the church bulletin too. “WS” are you now saying saying the Holy Rosary parents club should be tied to Planned Parenthood too?

Admiral Lady November 29, 2009 (1:02 am)

@ WS: You don’t have to agree with the “stance” of the Catholic Church – that is your free right. On the flip side, the Catholic bashing is getting very old. Yes, society changes, times change, but the canon law of the Catholic church does not have to. If one doesn’t like what it stands for, find another faith.

@ several others: you mention “equal rights for ALL”. Wouldn’t that also include Catholics? Or a Catholic school doing a fundraiser at Christmas time?

Paul November 29, 2009 (8:37 am)

Like Dale, I too haved worked the Tree Lot for many years. It should be noted that funds raised by this annual event support the school, and not the Parish general fund. The School’s Parent’s Club members were the ones who initially decided to give back to our community through the 15% shared charitable contributions, and have worked hard to continue that tradition in good times and in bad. We have contributed thousands back to the community that has supported us over the years, and we are grateful for the help of all our West Seattle neighbors in continuing this much needed effort.

Thank you for whatever support you are comfortable with giving this season…if you feel you just cannot buy a tree from us, then please at least make a donation to one of the three charities that benefit from our sales. It would be a shame if they were to lose out in what are desperate times for many…

WS November 29, 2009 (9:17 am)

@Dale: I’m saying that anyone can choose who to support with their donations and purchases. The Church should not be surprised when their opposition to gay marriage costs them some support, in the same way that places like Planned Parenthood should not be surprised when Catholics choose not to support them.

@Admiral Lady: No one is “bashing” the Catholic church, just choosing not to support them based on their policy on gay marriage. I’m not asking you to change your faith. Thanks for giving me permission to not be a Catholic, I’ll take you up on that offer.

No one is questioning the church’s right to have a fundraiser, and/or sell trees. Of course they have a right to. Not supporting them is not infringing on their rights.

Bettytheyeti November 29, 2009 (10:43 am)

My husband and I are going to miss the handmade thank you card we receive for purchasing our Holiday tree at Holy Rosery. (It’s West Seattle Nursery this year.) @Admiral Lady: We celebrate the ancient custom of setting up an evergreen tree for the Winter Solstice. You see, it is a lovingly co-opted ancient custom, dare I say pagan custom; down to the very dates.

mark November 29, 2009 (1:46 pm)

Note. Rev Madigans letter of hate to the Herald was not signed John Madigan. It was not signed Rev Madigan. It was signed Rev John Madigan, Holy Rosary Church. He spoke out as a member, if not the voice of the church. Never again will they get one penny in donations from my family.

Alki Homestead November 29, 2009 (1:57 pm)

Really saddened by what has happened with this whole Ref 71 issue and HRS. A wise (Catholic) woman recently told me that change happens from within. There are a lot of Catholics who are working for change in the Church. There are many of us in the Parish and School who voted for Ref. 71 and who support our gay parents, neighbors, friends, and family members. Boycott the Church if you want, but support the school. We have a diverse, amazingly supportive network of parents (some gay) who are involved in the school and parish. You can meet them at the tree lot! They are Catholic, the face of change and the future of the Church. BTW, GO GREEN AND GET A FAKE TREE — maybe it’s time for Holy Rosary to start a new tradition.

mark November 29, 2009 (2:28 pm)

Perhaps enough people will boycott the tree lot and avoid the festivals and such. I am sure the message of hate is shared by a few minority church and school families. There is one message they do understand and that’s a restriction in donations. Nothing talks like cash and the church understands that very well.

4thGenWestSide November 29, 2009 (5:14 pm)

In the words of St. Rodney King:
“Why can’t we just all get along?”

Alki Homestead November 29, 2009 (5:27 pm)

Hey Mark, I noticed your link goes to MoveOn.org. I support MoveOn.org too and Holy Rosary Church/School. There probably are a few minority families who didn’t support Ref. 71, but so what? It passed!

Forest November 29, 2009 (9:04 pm)

Well, the national church may publicly condemn equal rights for adult gay couples, but can’t we agree that no organization spends more of its time and money defending gay pedophiles?

Laconique November 29, 2009 (10:52 pm)

@alki homestead- there is a LOT of debate on the real versus fake tree issue and which is greener!! Our household has come down anti-PVC trees made overseas and pro-Washington-grown trees and a city that will mulch them for compost. However, we will definitely not be buying our solstice tree at holy rosary thanks to this thread!!

Paul November 30, 2009 (9:30 am)

I sure wish I lived in West Seattle so I could buy a Christmas Tree at Holy Rosary. Imagine a parish priest who is not affraid to proclaim moral treaching. We need more of this kind of bravery.

Paul in Gig Harbor

Bettytheyeti November 30, 2009 (10:22 am)

@Paul: Why should he be afraid to proclaim a “moral teaching?” Why a covert (i.e. secret) petiton to over turn rights to a group of people who also pay taxes. Father Madigan has the right he just doesn’t get to do it and be tax exempt! Political Action Committees and religion don’t mix in the constitution of the U.S. o’ A.

Paul in W. Seattle November 30, 2009 (10:31 am)

It seems intolerant to deny charitable donations to the children of Holy Rosary School and to the charities in the community that Holy Rosary supports because Fr. Madigan felt obligated to speak out on the moral teachings of his church. We had a statewide election and the pro R-71 side won. Isn’t it mean-spirited to then direct retribution against a local school charity? The issue is settled. What good would boycotting a local school’s fundraising effort do now?

mark November 30, 2009 (10:40 am)

I suppose if hate is a moral then Rev Madigan is a great teacher. Thanks for the heads up there Paul!!!

Madigan can say anything he wants, but when you run a business (thats what the church is after all, just one that doesn’t pay taxes) then you need to be aware of potential backlash. See Whole Foods CEO John Mackey for more.

mark November 30, 2009 (11:14 am)

Paul in W Seattle. I have no problem supporting some of the charities directly that the church supported but there is no reason the church needs to be the middleman and come out as the “nice guy” who helped those in need. As for the school, well, if my kids went there, they wouldn’t be there anymore.

Smitty November 30, 2009 (2:39 pm)

Very nice trees and I love the thank you cards written by the children! Nice touch.

Mark – get a life before some of these private school parents start to get behind a voucher system of some kind.

mark November 30, 2009 (2:44 pm)

Smitty, I would love a voucher program, it would force the public schools to compete a little bit, always a good thing. As a parent (children are past school age)I would never send my child to a school whose Rev seemed to be so hateful, but that’s just me.

Danno November 30, 2009 (6:24 pm)

Mark-

Really, as Smitty said, get a life. As far as hate goes, your replies are dripping with vitriol. I can only imagine what you could be accomplishing in the time it has been taking you to make 20% of the comments in this thread…Just sayin…

Been here a long time November 30, 2009 (7:11 pm)

get a life? so and so is a hater?
All this anger and arguing about Christmas Trees;
a small symbol of peace on earth?
Thank you all for the irony. Enjoy the season, (or not- no one has to do anything they don’t want to.)
Happy Holidays.

Laura Swanson December 1, 2009 (12:36 am)

So Mark, what group are YOU affiliated with? Shall I condemn them all AND their children because YOU have an opinion that I don’t agree with?

Grow up & stop being so small minded. It is Christmas time, the season of Christ, the season of giving, forgiving and counting your blessings. In no religion or lack there of, is this a season of hate and condemnation.

People, buy your tree wherever you want, but don’t do it because of hate or mean spirit, life is too short and what a horrible message to teach our children.

The Dude December 1, 2009 (6:47 am)

As the original poster on this issue, I hesitated to do such. However, knowing many non-hetero couples who were hurt by the words — and in this case a letter in the WS Herald — coming forth from the No on R71 campaign I could not ignore the fact that the leader of Holy Rosary, Father John Madigan, signed onto this campaign in a very public way.

As for those who state that the Christmas season is a time of giving, forgiving and the counting of ones blessings, I would urge you and your children to apply that belief throughout the year, and realize that any religion that campaigns to cast aside or condemn certain segments of the population based on their sexual orientation is not helping their children, the city, state or country. Keep your religion out of the polls and in the pews and you might find your parish, church, synagogue, temple, sweat lodge, etc. actually grow and flourish with love and understanding.

Urging EVERYONE to make a donation of time or money to the WS Food Bank and the WS Helpline.

Laura Swanson December 1, 2009 (1:58 pm)

To “The Dude”: as the original poster on this issue, YOU are the one who started all of this and made selling Christmas trees to help children and the needy in the local area a political issue. Shame on you!

Why don’t you keep your judgements strictly TO the politics you care so much about and leave the business of good people helping ALL people in the community to the nice ones out there willing to do it?

If your beef is with Father Madigan’s comments or the Catholic church, take it up with them. Shame on you for condemning innocent children and parents who are giving up their personal time by volunteering to help others, regardless of race, sexual preference, religion or political views.

Our pews are full, our churches are flourishing. The Catholic church is NOT the only group who is not comfortable with making gay marriage LEGAL. No where did Father Madigan or the Catholic church CONDEMN any one.

My children are tolerant of ALL of mankind, regardless of their personal preferences.

Please, use the appropriate venue to voice your political views. This page is about good people helping others during the holidays.

Before doing everyone else’s inventory, take a look in the mirror instead.

Try using your efforts for the GOOD!

Bettytheyeti December 1, 2009 (6:41 pm)

@the Dude, thank you, “for starting all this.” @Ms. Swanson this is exactly the correct avenue to discuss buy trees or not buying trees. No shame needed. And, I am glad your children are tolerant. @ Father Madigan et al. the sword cuts both ways. If karma is worth anything, I imagine 51.13% of folks reading this thread will buy there trees somewhere else, the other 49% will not. But unlike the pulpit this is the correct venue for this discussion, a shout out to WSB, thanks. Using my efforts for good!

The Dude December 2, 2009 (7:21 am)

Laura S. – Read the letter that that was published in the WS Herald and was signed by the leader of Holy Rosary, Father Madigan. Better yet read it with your children. Read it as if you were a non-heterosexual person. Then tell me you are not being condemned.

The letter is what made this a political issue. Not my referencing it.

I was always told by my parents that you reap what you sow, and in this case something was sown that has sprouted rotten.

While this may not be a pleasant subject for you and others, it is most certainly a valid one worthy of discussion because this subject will not go away just because it is December 2009.

Thank you for your concern about my need to do good. I assure you my efforts are spent in just that manner on a daily basis.

Mary December 2, 2009 (5:16 pm)

Hopefully, the current position on gay marriage held by many churches, not just the ones listed in the article, will soon change. In the meantime, people have every right to withdraw their support from any and all of these organizations. It is, however, interesting to think about the businesses, individuals and organizations that we support day in and day out and wonder what their political positions are. Are we being fair in targeting one? Are we going to ask the political position of every tree-seller in Seattle before we buy? Are we willing to stand by our principles to the extent that it will prompt us to pass up that great bargain or move to a different apartment building because the owner doesn’t share our political views? It’s so much easier when the primary affect of our decisions is felt by another individual or group. But what if that means WE are going to be the ones who are sacrificing when we withdraw our financial support? Are we willing to go that far? It’s true: change happens bit by bit, day in and day out. However, we should be very careful where we cast stones, because…sometimes, as Forrest Gump would say, “there just aren’t enough rocks.”

Laura Swanson December 4, 2009 (3:29 pm)

MARY – Hooray!! YOU get it and you put it so well! THANK YOU!!

(So “The Dude”, have you talked with the other tree lots to find our what their sexual preferences are or their political views?)

I don’t care if anyone withdraws their support. It was the WAY it was put and the fact that hurting innocent people who are doing GOOD in the community is not the appropriate way to send a “message” to Father Madigan or the Catholic church.

If Father Madigan’s letter was what prompted the political issue, then address that on THAT web page. NOT one about volunteers working hard for the children and the communitee.

If you have a problem, go straight to the source. Don’t harm others who truly have nothing to do with it and are spending their personal time helping people. THAT’s what is shameful and even a 5 year old knows the difference.

Gregg Hersholt December 7, 2009 (10:24 am)

Before you make your Christmas tree purchase based on political views, let me remind you that some of West Seattle’s finest charities – the Food Bank and the Helpline – will suffer if you boycott the Holy Rosary lot: they receive 15% of the proceeds and their services are badly needed right now in West Seattle. Don’t punish them!!

cd3 December 8, 2009 (11:35 am)

we are done purchasing our trees through Holy Rosary Tree Lot

Richard December 11, 2009 (3:04 pm)

So according to all you mis-informed haters, everyone in the school is a member of the church and is Catholic? Hmmm… you mean they might not send there Children there because it is one of the best grade schools in the Northwest? I happen to know as my children attend there that NOWHERE IN THE SCHOOL DO THEY SPEAK/TEACH POLITICS OF GAY RIGHTS. They have the best teachers I have ever witnessed at a school! I haven’t met one which I didn’t think was amazing, which is saying a lot as I had some bad teachers growing up. Also, I haven’t met one parent whose children attend HOLY ROSARY SCHOOL who isn’t sending them there for the quality of the school. ALSO FR. MADIGAN IS NOT IN CHARGE OF THE SCHOOL… HE IS IN CHARGE OF THE CHURCH! The school has a very good Pricipal who has NEVER gotten involved in this or any other political issue. His thoughts like our own are just that… OUR OWN opinion and not broadcast publically. JUST REMEMBER WHILE YOU HATERS ARE BOYCOTTING THE SCHOOL VIA TREES… IT IS ONE LESS SMARTBOARD OR OTHER TEACHING TOOL WHICH YOU ARE TAKING AWAY FROM THE CHILDREN ATTENDING THE SCHOOL. THE CHURCH AND THE SCHOOL ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS. WHY DON’T YOU WRITE THE POPE AND/OR FR. MADIGAN IF YOU NEED TO LET YOUR HATE OUT! AND DON’T DONATE TO THE CHURCH OR ATTEND THE CHURCH!!! THE SCHOOL DID NOTHING WRONG! NOR THE PARENTS OR THE CHILDREN WHO ATTEND IT!!!!!! I HOPE THIS IS THE LAST I HEAR OF SCHOOL AND CHILDREN HATING, AS THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BY BASHING THE HOLY ROSARY SCHOOL CHRISTMAS TREE LOT!!!

IF YOU HAVE THIS MUCH ENERGY IN HATE OVER THE CHRISTMAS SEASON AND NEED TO BLAME IT ON THE LOCATION OF YOUR TREE PURCHASE… GO TO EVERY LOT IN SEATTLE AND ASK THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS NOT ONLY THE OWNER OF THE LOT BUT ALL IT’S EMPLOYEES. HEY, SINCE YOU HAVE SO MUCH TIME WHY STOP THERE! FIND OUT THE POLITICAL VIEWS OF FORD, CHEVY, TOYOTA, BUICK, ETC. ALSO GROCERY STORES, SHOPPING VENUES, EVERY WHERE YOU SPEND A DIME AND BOYCOTT THEM TOO! CONDEMN AND HATE THE WORLD… THAT SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD USE OF TIME AS THIS WILL MAKE YOU WHOLE.
OR…
SEE THE GOOD IN YOUR NEIGHBORS IN SPITE OF THEIR FLAWS. SUPPORT THEM AS YOU WILL NEED THEIR SUPPORT TOO. IF THEY NEED HELP… DON’T TURN YOUR BACK ON THEM. WE CAN’T DO IT ALONE OR SURE WOULDN’T WANT TO! MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL!
I HOPE YOU SUPPORT THE CHILDREN WHO ATTEND THE SCHOOL BY PURCHASING YOUR TREE AT THE HOLY ROSARY SCHOOL TREE LOT!!! AND HATS OFF TO THE HARD WORKING VOLUNTEER PARENTS WHO ARE SO GIVING OF THEIR VALUABLE TIME TO SPREAD GOOD CHEER TO ALL AND HELP SUPPORT OUR LOCAL CHARITIES OF:

THE HICKMAN HOUSE: run by THE SALVATION ARMY providing temporary shelter for women and children who are victims of domestic abuse.

WEST SEATTLE FOOD BANK serving OUR less fortunate neighbors in West Seattle- committed to eliminating hunger in our little part of the world.

WEST SEATTLE HELPLINE: providing financial aid and referral advice to people and families in West Seattle.

DON’T BE A HATER PLAYER! SUPPORT WEST SEATTLE AND THE WONDERFUL SCHOOL OF HOLY ROSARY! SEE YOU AT THE LOT!

LOVE, JOY, AND PEACE TO YOU ALL… YES EVEN YOU MISGUIDED “HATERS”… TURN THAT FROWN UPSIDE DOWN. WE NEIGHBORS OF WEST SEATTLE AND HOLY ROSARY SCHOOL LOVE THIS TIME OF YEAR AND LOVE OUR CHILDREN DEARLY. WE SPREAD AS MUCH JOY AS WE CAN THROUGH THE TREE LOT, AND TRY TO DO SO IN OUR EVERYDAY LIVES AS WELL! THE SCHOOL IS OPEN MINDED, AND CARING! COME GET A HOT CHOCOLATE AND LISTEN TO SOME NICE CHRISMAS MUSIC AND WE WILL BE GLAD TO HELP!

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!!