Bad behavior at Lincoln Park

[josie2006]

We had a party in one of the shelters at Lincoln Park yesterday. The tables next to our shelter were reserved by what at first appeared to be a well-dressed, educated 20-30 something crowd. Things quickly turned sour, however, as we noticed the volume of alcohol being consumed. One of the guys jumped to catch a frisbee and landed on his head on the concrete path. He was lucky he didn’t crack it open, however, appeared to be ok after a minute or 2 and one of our party, a physician’s assistant, went to help, checked him out, and helped him move to the only shade in the area, which happened to be by our shelter. Before we knew it, nearly a quarter of the group had moved in underneath our shelter, roughly a dozen people, talking, drinking, smoking, and squirting water guns at each other and on us as well, since we were right there. This pretty much ruined the rest of our party, and we packed up and left. Staying would have required us to be uptight and ask them to move, which, given the fact their tables were just 5-10 feet away, had the potential to be very uncomfortable. We choose not to do this since it would have have only added stress for us.

I am disappointed that there were no parks patrols coming through the entire time we were there (over 5 hours). This isn’t the first time I’ve seen large groups consuming alcohol in the park, which is supposed to be against the rules. Next time, I will call the police.

Thanks for listening!

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[miws]

What an obnoxious bunch of idiots!

So many people nowadays don’t want to get involved in helping strangers in need, yet your freind does, with his/her medical experience, and the freind and your group, get “punished” for dong so.

I hope you don’t mind, but I have to make one funny little comment:

*…..landed on his head on the concrete path. He was lucky he didn’t crack it open…..*

I think it’s us taxpayers that are lucky. We’d be likely stuck with the sidewalk repair bill. The City probably would not have been able to locate him to bill him for it!

Mike

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[Magpie]

Or maybe he would have sued due to the sidewalk belonging to the Parks department. I think that you could have called 911 or the police non emergency number (while hiding behind a tree, so they couldn’t pin it on you, drinking alcohol in the park is against the law.

Also, I’t sure that there is a way to contact the park department and tell them which shelter these people were at and let them deal with the complaint because they know who it is if they reserved the shelter. I’ve been down there bad shelter neighbors too and it can be quite annoying, but you shouldn’t have to be the ones that move.

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[WSB]

Do call the police when you have trouble. Not only to deal with immediate circumstances, but if people were that out of control, imagine what could have happened later if they’d all piled into cars, driven off, and smacked into somebody (let alone endangering themselves).

Regarding “park patrols” – the park rangers recently added by the city are by ordinance only able to patrol “center city” parks, which is somewhat frustrating to the Parks Department, as I’m told was discussed at a recent Park Board meeting, because it was suggested that the rangers might be able to assist police/fire with the illegal fire problems at Alki (and Golden Gardens) – unfortunately those are not “center city” (nor is Lincoln). I know police do make rounds in some parts of Lincoln Park but I’m not sure how often so if you’re having trouble a phone call is indeed your best bet – “disorderly conduct” is citable – TR

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[Bonnie]

I saw a policeman on a bike a few days ago in Lincoln Park.

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[ellenater]

There were too many barking pitbulls near the entrance yesterday as well!

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[Erik]

This evening I went down to Alki to watch the sunset and walked passed a very drunk (and passed out) man. The parks guys were there cleaning up all the empty beer cans around this guy while one of them was on the phone. They left and a few minutes later an SPD squad car drove into the park (63rd) and apprehending the drunk guy and his buddy.

So the parks dept. does seem to work with the SPD.

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[JanS]

what’s better than 2 dozen cold ones on a hot summer day at the beach ;-)

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[JoB]

I have been thinking about whether it is better to be a killjoy or not.. and have come to the conclusion that if we don’t kill the joy of those who party in our parks.. they will kill the joy of those who don’t…

and the potential for killing someone on their way home is too large to ignore.

It’s hard isn’t it. i wouldn’t call on someone who was having a beer with their picnic.. but the minute any group gets rowdy at all… it’s time to call.. because their example only encourages increasingly rowdy behavior in the park.

the me who lives inside and is still young and yearns to party shakes her head at the body that surrounds her… and i tell her it’s for her own good.

i have become the old fart… only now i know that a good deal of what i thought was just getting old and cranky was good sense kicking in.

AARGH!!!!!

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[Zenguy]

I love to have a good time, I also am responsible. I get very angry at others that do not do the same or respect my right to have fun and not be infringed upon. It is not a young thing…just rude peeps.

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[ellenater]

Oh God, JoB I so relate to that. After having the kiddo I became a complete killjoy and was very confused as to what had become of me. Now I am so grateful to be past that horrendous life stage. For the most part… ;)

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[JoB]

ellenator…

i don’t want to burst your bubble.. but i have found it is like an onion.. we keep peeling off layers…

i think it stops at death.. so maybe it is a good thing that we keep reexamining both our own behavior and what we will tolerate from those around us.

zenguy..

i think the problem with alcohol is that the more you drink the less you are able to decide what is and isn’t respectful to those around you.

i truly believe that most people would be appalled if they saw a video of their own rowdy behavior and how it was affecting those around them…

my guess is that the rowdy party in the original post didn’t even notice they had driven the other group off.. they just thought.. cool.. we have the shady shelter now.

responsibility assumes awareness that is too often lacking.

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[Zenguy]

So true, alcohol affects judgement. It makes some happy and others angry, knowing how it affects you and not drinking where it is illegal goes a long way.

It just makes me giggle and then sleep.

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[JoB]

Me too.. but i now giggle and go to sleep drinking supposedly non-alcoholic beer:)

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[Zenguy]

The suggestion is all you need…lol. We should just give you some water and tell you it’s vodka.

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[roundthesound]

Instead of reminding your neighbors there is no alcohol allowed in the park, or asking them to please quiet down or contain their party to the space they had reserved you packed up your stuff and left? Staying would have required you to have been uptight? In the future you will call the police? Did these well dressed, educated, 20-30 somethings look intimidating? Were they playing frisbee in a violent manner that made you fear for your life if you were to talk to them about their party encroaching on your own? We are all neighbors here in WS and we should be able to talk to each other like neighbors do, not hide behind a tree and call the police since we don’t want a bunch of strangers to think we’re ‘uptight’…

He is some helpful dialog for next time you are in a situation with strangers:

Hi neighbors, we respect your right to have a picnic here at the park. However; your party seems to be encroaching on our family gathering. To avoid anymore of your friends getting injured or drunk driving we would appreciate if you put the alcohol away since it is not allowed in the park in first place. I’m sure you’re hot and I can see why you would like to squirt water guns but you are getting my stuff all wet and I don’t appreciate it. Etc, etc…

If all else fails, then it would be appropriate to call the authorities. I think you would be surprised how reasonable people can be but you have to be able to give them a chance.

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[Anonymous]

One would think that would be a reasonable request and that it would be accepted maturely but that is just not the way it is anymore in the world. Even in WS. For some reason, people don’t like to be called out or told what to do no matter how politely. I see where Josie is coming from. In this situation, given the way people behave, I probably would have done the same thing. No one knows how a sober or drunk group will act and I don’t think it’s worth the risk to see what response you will get.

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[roundthesound]

Thats right, thats not the way the world is anymore. People only talk to each other in anon. blog forums…

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[tubeytootoo]

Whelp, it was your decision to move and leave instead of trying another option. Sucks that they weren’t thoughtful, but you have to expect that. There are always ways to deal with people so that it wouldn’t be uncomfortable. Next time I recommend attempting a normal conversation. Then if they continue call the cops.

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[Ken]

Reasoning with drunks is a losing proposition.

I am a failure as an alcoholic myself. Try as I might, I get sleepy after one beer now and my annual litre bottle of makers mark last almost two years.

Call the cops if they are drinking in the park. We are the owners of those parks. There are many places set aside for people to drink. They are called bars and your own damn home.

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[ellenater]

I’m with Ken. If someone is toasted to the point of hitting you with their water pistols and frisbees without caring, they have lost they probably aren’t going to be receptive to discussion. Even if they appear to be, they’ll just repeat the above encroachments over and over.

JoB,

s’alright. according to Jung, I have many layers and they don’t all get along. :)

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[JoB]

ellenator..

me to.. and i don’t have to confirm with jung:)

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[JoB]

there is a pervasive attitude here that i just don’t get.. so maybe someone can explain it to me.

in more than one thread now… people who aren’t breaking the law and are being responsible..

are expected to go the extra mile to make things work for people who are breaking the law and are being irresponsible.

and they are the bad guys if they report the illegal behavior that negatively affects them.

i really just don’t get it.

is it ok to break the law and make other people fear for their safety with your behavior as long as you don’t physically harm them?

if so, what is to prevent those who break the law from physically harming others if the laws that prevent harm should not be enforced?

is law only about punishment for infractions which injure or kill others?

i am asking serious questions…

and i ask as a woman who was once widowed by one of those who had only had a “couple of beers”.

I am sure the person who killed my husband with their car didn’t intend to kill anyone that night.

It was an accident… but one that would have been prevented had he thought the law actually pertained to him…

Since it was only an accident, his punishment for the death of another was trivial..

and he still didn’t believe the law pertained to him when i last saw him having a “couple of beers” with his buds and getting into his car to drive home.

Just because everyoen gets lucky and nothing bad happens doesn’t mean that it couldn’t.

so please, explain to me why the right to illegal behavior supersedes the right to safety for those who will be the victims if things don’t turn out quite the way you planned.

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[miws]

JoB, sorry to hear of your loss in such a tragic, pointless manner.

People think that the laws don’t apply to them. Combine that with the laws not being enforced, and if they ARE enforced, and the punishment being much too light, or essentially non-existent, I think it just reenforces to these people, in their own mind, that they are ab ove the law.

I got So frustrated, lately, with the attitude of so many, on this Forum, on the issue of unleashed dogs, in parks such as Lincoln, where it’s not allowed, (and I’m a big time animal lover, so there’s no hatred of dogs involved on my part)and on the P-I Soundoffs regarding fireworks being set off illegaly, that they should be able to do those activities, THEN be punished only if something happened.

My problem with, and arguement against, that opinion, is that by the time something tragic DOES happen, it’s too late.

I don’t care if Bill Gates is walking his Rottie, or PitBull, off leash in Lincoln Park, stops to set off some bottle rockets, and while he’s standing there, looking up going “ooooh, ahhhhh”, his dog attacks another Park visitor, and kills their Chihuahua, and then he turns around and sees that one of the bottle rockets is burning down a house across the street, and an occupant is badly injured, and the house, all of their belongings are destroyed.

Sure, he could well afford to fully pay the monetary value of the of the losses, and any other costs the Court deemed neccesary, such as compensation for future complications, (and I’d like to think he’d do so without contesting it) the point is, the damage has already been done, and NO amount of money is going to take away physical, and emotional pain.

Sorry about the run-on sentences, in the last two paragraphs, and I hope I made sense in them, it’s just, as you can see, I’m very passionate about issues such as these.

Mike

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[Julie]

Mike, I’ve been mulling this phenomenon over, too (the notion that one is entitled to break a law because it’s a stupid law/it’s just a little over the limit/I’ve never hurt anyone/it’s my God-given right to…etc.)

I notice people resent most (and are most likely to flout) laws they regard as “minor”. Relatively few people complain about laws against murder, but lots of people get their noses out of joint about leash laws/limits on driver behaviour/smoking bans. People argue for just using “common sense” (which is way less reliable than people like to believe) instead of laws, but surely that applies to murder, as well? And if people were using common courtesy, or “common sense”, we’d not have to pass the laws in the first place. We have the laws because not everyone uses courtesy and sense.

Thoughtful skepticism of authority is a healthy attitude–but what we’re seeing in this cavalier disregard of laws is, rather than thoughtful skepticism, merely an attempt to justify selfish behaviour.

I don’t know what the most effective way is to address it.

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