Sound Transit light rail for West Seattle? Survey says …

Quick note from the West Seattle Transportation Coalition meeting that just wrapped up in High Point: Co-chair Amanda Kay Helmick mentioned that Sound Transit has released results of its recent survey seeking input on prioritizing what might go into its next ballot measure, and she pointed out that a potential West Seattle light-rail route had received the most support in the survey. Here’s what we subsequently found online: You can see all the results here. (Or embedded below:)

From page 10: The potential route that had more supporters than any other, anywhere in the region, was an elevated line between West Seattle Junction and Downtown Seattle, with 5,198 votes. In second, light rail between Ballard and the U-District, with 4,751 votes. Sound Transit says 25,000 people took the survey, which we mentioned here several times before it closed two weeks ago. Next step for Sound Transit: Deciding what to include in the “ST 3” ballot measure that’s expected to be sent to voters next year.

P.S. Main topic of tonight’s WSTC meeting was the Port of Seattle’s Terminal 5 modernization plan; full report coming up.

21 Replies to "Sound Transit light rail for West Seattle? Survey says ..."

  • mike July 24, 2015 (12:07 am)

    Interesting!

  • Ron Swanson July 24, 2015 (12:09 am)

    Almost more interesting than the survey results are the comments submitted by the various cities and counties involved. These have a lot of sway – see today’s ST board selection of an I-5 route for Federal Way Link, which all of the cities involved lobbied hard for, to the dismay of urbanists.

    The suburban comments were fairly predictable: Lynnwood to Everett via Paine Field; Federal Way to Tacoma via I-5; finishing Redmond Link; Kirkland to Issaquah via Bellevue.

    The city of Seattle’s input has some interesting tidbits:

    -The Monorail is back! The route anyway. Ballard-W.S. is the city’s highest priority. Ballard-U.W. is put on the back burner, a move sure to enrage transit nerds.

    -The city suggests ST study a replacement Ballard Bridge for cars, Link, and bikes. This might be as tall as 70′ above the water, which means it would rarely open. This would go with a surface or elevated route down 15th. Great idea.

    -A tunnel that swings east with an “Amazon” stop in SLU instead of the Belltown route shown previously. Probably makes sense. SLU has way more jobs and fewer buses.

    -Light rail to the Junction in ST3 with plans to go further south eventually. Big win for W.S. activism here.

    -Possible interim improvements to W.S. bus service such as bus ramps or lanes that could convert to light rail in future (this seems implausible to me, any ramp squeezed in is going to be too sharp for trains and putting them on the high bridge is unlikely at best), or a SODO bus transfer facility (this would not be much of an improvement IMO).

    But all in all, looks good that the monorail’s failed dream will be more or less delivered.

  • metrognome July 24, 2015 (3:46 am)

    this isn’t a survey in the purely technical sense (not randomized, etc.); it is really a questionnaire answered primarily by transit supporters as part of a slick marketing campaign (Q9: 93% of nearly 25,000 respondents ‘strongly’ or ‘somewhat’ support mass transit.)
    The results are designed to indicate widespread public support that doesn’t exist (ST3 home page trumpets 93% support without footnoting there were 25k respondents out of nearly 3 million people who live in parts of the tri-county area that comprise the ST taxing district. source: http://soundtransit3.org/why-st3)
    I haven’t massaged the numbers in detail, but it seems that the majority of respondents answered only the questions that related to their ‘hood. WSites likely didn’t provide feedback re: service in Pierce County and vice versa. There was no incentive for people who don’t want to spend billions for light rail to the Junction to take the ‘survey.’
    This ‘survey’ is akin to walking into a high-end car dealership and being asked which luxury car you want without being given the cost of the car, interest rate for the loan or estimated long-term operating and maintenance costs.
    The ultimate ‘survey’ will be the public vote estimated to take place on Nov. 8, 2016. This is also the presidential and WA gubernatorial election, among other races and initiatives, so turnout will be high. This could be a bad thing for ST3 as it might draw a lot of ‘no’ voters who might not turn out for a less interesting ballot. ST3, including the WS portion (if it makes the cut,) has to be approved by the majority of eligible tri-county voters who are still paying for ST1 and ST2 and who may not yet be served by ST2 rail service.
    .
    RonS – you’re getting the caboose waaay in front of the locomotive; the monorail’s failed dream is far from being implemented.

  • cashouttownie July 24, 2015 (5:56 am)

    I don’t understand where people would park for a junction elevated. I also don’t believe the poor folks of delridge or Burien will see any connection south from that for many decades.

    I just have to say thanks to all of you old timers who voted down every rail vote we tried 25 30 years ago.

    This mess is the fault of every voter who voted no back then. Bunch of idiots with their heads in the sand. Thanks for nothing.

  • tonenotvolume July 24, 2015 (9:26 am)

    Metrognome – “this isn’t a survey in the purely technical sense (not randomized, etc.); it is really a questionnaire answered primarily by transit supporters…”
    Technically, a survey is for marketing purposes. for example, “A detailed study of a market or geographical area to gather data on attitudes, impressions, opinions, satisfaction level, etc., by polling a section of the population”. So I disagree with your first statement. Your second statement “as part of a slick marketing campaign” is an opinion of little use to those of us trying to fix our transit problems. Don’t know if you are anti-change, anti-tax, anti-politics or what, but the present situation is untenable and requires change. You’re further over on the hater spectrum but still not on the helpful slope.

  • NWCommenter July 24, 2015 (9:27 am)

    Thank god the monorail was killed. I have no issue with the route here for West Seattle to Downtown, but Sound Transit already had the Central Link in progress/operational so there wasn’t a point to have a competing rail line.

  • Ron Swanson July 24, 2015 (9:33 am)

    Metrognome: pretty negative attitude there! I’m not saying this is the world’s best research tool, but it certainly gave cranks the chance to answer ‘no’ on everything and rail about government waste in the open ended questions. Only 7% did. And your theory of presidential election turnout is exactly backwards. Angry suburban/exurban anti tax folks always vote. 2016 is going to bring out a massive urban/youth turnout in king county, that’s just going to have seen University Link open. This is the best possible time to go to the voters.

    And when I say the dream of the monorail is being fulfilled, I mean the basic route chosen then hasn’t succumbed to “let’s build Ballard to UW first” or “West Seattle doesn’t need rail”

  • Joe Szilagyi July 24, 2015 (9:42 am)

    I wonder how much this survey is going to throw into chaos any laid or hoped for plans by various people…? Will more of the bucket go to West Seattle and Burien now?

    We just saw how much sway ‘local’ folks can have on the Sound Transit board with the SR99/I-5 thing down south.

  • Joe Szilagyi July 24, 2015 (9:43 am)

    @Nwcommenter “Thank god the monorail was killed. I have no issue with the route here for West Seattle to Downtown, but Sound Transit already had the Central Link in progress/operational so there wasn’t a point to have a competing rail line.”
    .
    …that doesn’t make even the slightest bit of sense. The southeast Light Rail line served wildly different people and locations. That’s like saying you shouldn’t build the light rail from downtown to Bellevue and Redmond because we’re building a light rail line from Tacoma to Federal Way.

  • wakeflood July 24, 2015 (10:39 am)

    Not sure if I read this right, Joe, but I think that comment was meant to infer we didn’t need competing TYPES of rail in the same city? i.e. monorail vs. light rail as opposed to different routes?

  • Mickymse July 24, 2015 (10:42 am)

    @NWcommenter, yeah… “Thank god” we don’t ALREADY have a rapid transit system running from here into Downtown Seattle. We’re much better waiting off now waiting for the OPPORTUNITY to vote for the POSSIBILITY of a Link route running from here into Downtown in 2026 at the very earliest.

  • Anandakos July 24, 2015 (12:22 pm)

    Here’s prediction: when you get your Link to the Junction people who now use RapidRide, the 21, 120, and 125 which now go downtown and will then be forced to transfer. For the non-Rapid Ride routes, that will happen just as their buses are about to “go express” and they’ll be seething. Welcome to 24/7/365 transfers underneath the West Seattle Viaduct for the entire Delridge/Burien corridor.

    The old saw “be careful what you wish for” is true for this in Spades.

    The right solution for West Seattle would have been a new bridge for buses only which is rail-convertible in the future carrying “Open BRT” buses across the Duwamish. But because of the “Seattle Process”, uninformed people with stars in their eyes have just forced a big mistake on citizens of the future.

    If you must have this light rail line, you also need to fill the Triangle and Junction with ten to twenty story buildings including employment. Otherwise spending $3.5 billion dollars on this boondoggle will put it in the Transit Hall of Shame.

    • WSB July 24, 2015 (12:45 pm)

      Anan – The 85′ zoning in The Junction would be upzoned to 12 stories under the mayor’s proposal, so that part of the machinery is already in the works…

  • Ron Swanson July 24, 2015 (1:06 pm)

    Ah, the folks who want to keep West Seattle on the bus forever are showing up!

  • Soaked July 24, 2015 (2:23 pm)

    We’ve seen bus rapid transit in this part of town and know full well how well that works. There’s only so much more lipstick you can put on that pig.

  • Joe Szilagyi July 24, 2015 (2:28 pm)

    @Anadakos: “Here’s prediction: when you get your Link to the Junction people who now use RapidRide, the 21, 120, and 125 which now go downtown and will then be forced to transfer. For the non-Rapid Ride routes, that will happen just as their buses are about to “go express” and they’ll be seething. Welcome to 24/7/365 transfers underneath the West Seattle Viaduct for the entire Delridge/Burien corridor.”
    .
    …except most every sane plan including Sound Transit’s designs include, typically, a stop at Westwood and possibly White Center.
    .
    Did anyone assume it’s a given that bus service wouldn’t be routed around rail and transfers? That’s always been part of nearly all plans.

  • Bradley July 25, 2015 (10:00 pm)

    @cashouttownie: You’re welcome.

  • Thomas M. July 26, 2015 (1:28 am)

    PARKING. What good does a light rail line or more bus service do if there is nowhere to put your car (yes, some of us do live a goodly distance from the transit lines). How about a real transit center instead of the current crime magnet Barton Swamp arrangement? Some kind of bus drive-through (dry and shaded) and a schload of parking on top? Hm?

  • wb July 26, 2015 (7:59 pm)

    @Bradley — and did you also vote against meeting the govt partway in the 70s for a new transportation system in seattle? atlanta got the money instead and built marta. Shall we thank you for that as well?

  • Kimmy July 27, 2015 (4:24 pm)

    The most recent monorail that hit the ballot was to create not only a monorail but a separate governing body, so it would have theoretically been competing rail lines serving WS/Ballard and CH/Rainier Valley (Sound Transit). It seems very irrational to have each route with a separate governing body.

  • longtimews August 1, 2015 (7:29 am)

    I think elevated transportation (monorail/light rail) in West Seattle is a mistake. When I try to visualize these awful structures and all the associated pitfalls I see a slum and I seriously hope they never get erected.

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