West Seattle and North Highline groups ask city, county to study how to make SW Roxbury safer

July 22, 2013 at 9:35 am | In Safety, Transportation, West Seattle news | 58 Comments

(May 2013 WSB photo from Roxbury/14th crash that sent 2 to hospital)
Three local neighborhood groups – the Westwood-Roxhill-Arbor Heights Community Council, Highland Park Action Committee, and North Highline Unincorporated Area Council - are asking the city and county for a safety study of the busy West Seattle/White Center road they share: SW Roxbury. More than 140 people have been hurt in crashes on or along Roxbury in the past four years alone, according to statistics the groups compiled for this letter they’re sending today:

Letter to city, county from WWRHAH, HPAC, NHUAC requesting Roxbury safety study

(If you can’t read the embedded letter, go here to see it as a PDF.)

As reported here last month, the city of Seattle plans two new school-zone speed cameras for Roxbury, near Roxhill Elementary and Holy Family School, but the groups say speeding isn’t the only issue along the busiest stretch of Roxbury, where they would like the study focused – between 35th SW on the west and 8th SW (the main entrance to the Greenbridge community) on the east. They also raise concerns about safety near the third school on Roxbury, the Community School of West Seattle.

The groups’ announcement is published in full on the WWRHAH website. As noted there, they are inviting other groups, as well as businesses and “representative(s) of the area,” to endorse their request by contacting WWRHAH at contact@wwrhah.org.

ADDED 9:44 AM: WWRHAH secretary Joe Szilagyi tells WSB says they’ve already received one reply, from SDOT, “saying they would respond to each concern within 60 days.”

58 Comments

  1. Also adding a left-hand turn lane with possible light at 14th and Roxbury. Cars get backed up behind vehicles waiting to make left hand turns and cut over in to the right lane to pass the car waiting to turn.

    Comment by Chad — 10:03 am July 22, 2013 #

  2. It’s not so much the speeding on Roxbury that is a problem, although it occure (as on all roads in Seattle/KC), but the condition of the road that contributes to the safety factor, esp. between 26th and 17th Aves SW.
    Timing the street lights might help a bit
    What WON’T help is the installing of a bike lane and turning it into a “one lane each direction with a center turn lane” road.
    Dedicated left turn lanes with a signal on 26th SW is MUST in any improvements.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 10:12 am July 22, 2013 #

  3. They say they need to reduce vehicle speeds because people are speeding in a 20 MPH school zone. I’m sorry, but if you’re the type of person who carelessly and irresponsibly speeds by a school zone, you really don’t care what the limit is, lowering it won’t make any difference.
    Here’s an interesting concept, how about enforcing the law? Actually making people pay for breaking the rules and putting us in danger! If you put a cop on the corner or a camera and hurt them in the pocket, they might actually learn a lesson. Don’t expect them to change their behavior because you have changed the rules.

    Comment by TheOtherDude — 10:30 am July 22, 2013 #

  4. Easy fix: Speed Enforcement.

    Roxbury has poor sight lines (by my house on 12th especially) that are only worsened when 10+ mph over the speed limit is the norm for traffic. I don’t know how many times I’ve looked left, all clear, turned right, and from over the hill comes someone right up on me at 45 mph (laying on the horn, of course)

    From Olson and 15th or 26th to 35th it’s like a drag race.

    Comment by iforgotmyothername — 10:49 am July 22, 2013 #

  5. This:

    http://westseattleblog.com/2009/01/bulletin-fauntleroy-rechannelization-approved

    needs to happen on Rox.

    (I commute on Rox 2x/day, every day.)

    Is that what they’re trying to not-say-out-loud by asking vaguely for a study?

    It’d be foolish to try to address it by lowering the speed limits drivers are already routinely violating. You get lower speeds with engineering, not signage.

    Comment by Cheryl — 10:51 am July 22, 2013 #

  6. Repave the road, it’s barely drivable in some sections, which pisses drivers off and contributes to irratic driving…. Slowing speed limits down to Zombie inducing speeds is never a solution, unless your actually trying to put people to sleep at the wheel.

    Comment by Flipjack — 11:28 am July 22, 2013 #

  7. Agree with Flipjack. I live just of Rox and ride a motorcycle, and Rox is BY FAR the roughest road in the city. It is in desperate need of repaving between the Safeway entrance and 16th. On a motorcycle its downright dangerous, and even in my truck I often feel like I’m off roading.

    Comment by GRG — 11:45 am July 22, 2013 #

  8. Having part-time parking on one block of Roxbury in one direction doesn’t make much sense. Drivers in the right hand lane westbound between Delridge and 17th don’t always know that’s coming, and then change lanes at the last second. I’m sure the businesses in that block would not be happy about losing that parking, but what is it, maybe 3 or 4 spots? There is often parking available in the 9400 block of Delridge.

    And the right hand lane eastbound between 22nd & 20th is narrower than in other blocks. The lane width and curb location should be consistent all the way from 26th to 17th.

    Comment by Blair Johnson — 11:53 am July 22, 2013 #

  9. Two words: road diet.

    This road should be one lane in each direction, separated by a median with plantings, etc., (like a true boulevard) with a speed of no more than 30. It’s ridiculous how people treat it like a highway. For an arguably short stretch of city road, it’s horrible how often there are accidents and near-misses. It needs to be addressed by reengineering it.

    Comment by JRR — 12:09 pm July 22, 2013 #

  10. Check out the bike masterplan A road diet is already in the works for Roxbury. http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/bikemaster_materials.htm

    Comment by Donn — 12:39 pm July 22, 2013 #

  11. Road diets!?!?!?!
    Obviously that are in favor of them never, or infrequently drive that stretch of road.
    If you want to see car moverment come to a SCREETCHING HALT in White Center/SW West Seattle then this is what you do.
    Blair is right, make Roxbury from 4th SW to 35th SW, a “No Praking” zone.
    Synch the lights, make left turn lanes on 8th, 16th, 17th Aves SW with dedicated left signals.
    The big “choke point” west bound is between 16th and 16 and 17th SW. Also devise a better way to get traffice through the 16th/Roxbury/Delridge intersection.
    Road diets…social engineering at its worst.
    Make the roads so congested that people are forced to take the bus. Except those that can afford the time and money to use the roads.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 1:05 pm July 22, 2013 #

  12. I don’t know how a road diet will help, when a car needs to turn past opposing traffic, onto one of the streets. Guess, we won’t go anywhere fast. Could see tons of traffic backing up, with one lane in each direction.

    Comment by tanyar23 — 1:18 pm July 22, 2013 #

  13. Check out the bike masterplan A road diet is already in the works for Roxbury.

    One thing to remember is that Roxbury is the City Limits. The split is right down the middle, so Seattle MBP may not (hopefully) effect the whole road, but only the portion that resides in the City Limits (north side of the street). That would mean that west bound would be one lane and east bound would be two lanes for a majority of Roxbury.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 1:22 pm July 22, 2013 #

  14. BTW… the area that is in the city limits south of Roxbury are; the land that Holy family Church and School occupy and west of 29th Ave SW.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 1:50 pm July 22, 2013 #

  15. Road diet?

    That’s Seattle for you. Rather than have a couple of already on the books SPD or County patrols give out tickets for a few hours, let’s spend thousands and thousands of dollars to engineer a solution!

    Although, as pointed out, the condition of the street as allowed by the city and county shows they are way ahead of the passive-aggressive make it so you can’t drive too fast types.

    Comment by iforgotmyothername — 2:04 pm July 22, 2013 #

  16. JRR has the best solution – that, and speed enforcement. I’m on that street every day, and speeds of double the limit are not unusual. 40-50 mph is the norm. Vehicles frequently fly right through the crosswalk by Safeway. I saw a near pedestrian fatality there recently. We’ve got to have more speed enforcement everywhere, I don’t care if it’s by cop or by camera.

    Comment by anonyme — 2:09 pm July 22, 2013 #

  17. The intersection at 8th SW is particularly challenging. This is due to the insufficient traffic control (left-turn lanes as suggested would be helpful), the volume and speed of drivers and the hill, which is particularly challening for east-bound traffic whose line of sight is limited by the rise just before the street light. I’ve seen a lot of accidetns at this intersection. Thankfully, I don’t often drive much more westerly than this on the Roxbury Freeway.

    Comment by Charles — 2:14 pm July 22, 2013 #

  18. I’ve lived off of Roxbury for nearly 20 years (most of my life!), so here are my opinions:

    1) Hand the whole street to one side of the other. Having two agencies involved in one road has led to it falling apart. Give it to Seattle or givei to King County (and then to whoever gets White Center in an annexation)

    2) Repave that sucker! Buses are driving down the middle of the lanes to avoid the giant trenches on the sides eastbound. The asphalt at 17th & Roxbury westbound is a joke. This is even more critical now that so many more buses are using the road between 15th & 26th.

    3) Enforce the speed limits already in place. Ambulances, fire trucks, and police use the road to get to calls, but I almost never see anyone getting pulled over for speeding. It’s becoming more and more frustrating to drive. (Also, fix Holy Family’s lights, they are left on through the weekend and were flashing as though the bulbs were going out after school was done for the summer. That may be contributing to the speeding during school hours there).

    4) I like the idea of one lane in each direction. Parking on the sides for businesses, bike lanes, and turn lanes. There are three bus stops I can think of in that area that would be affected.

    Hopefully something comes out of this study to improve the roadway.

    Comment by jedifarfy — 2:19 pm July 22, 2013 #

  19. Protected left turns onto the north/south streets, as well as from the north/south streets onto Roxbury. At 4th Ave SW, at 16th, and so on. There needs to be a light at the top of Olsen Pl to calm the traffic there, too, and allow for safe pedestrian crossings.

    Comment by Verde — 4:03 pm July 22, 2013 #

  20. Just want to mention that I live one house up from Roxbury, on 21st. The craze with which people drive it can be experienced at all hours, all days.

    Comment by JRR — 5:01 pm July 22, 2013 #

  21. AS someone who lives at 21st and Roxbury, I can be witness to the people speeding thru the flashing school lights. Some slow down, and all they get for their lawfulness is to get honked at by someone who is truly more important than they are.
    I see people doing 40-50 mph all the time. I see the Safeway, Target and QFC big rigs rolling down Roxbury at way more than 30 mph.
    The lack of maintenance from either city is deplorable. Neither one will take responsibility.
    LEt the city put it on a road diet. Maybe it will slow people down a bit.

    Comment by smokeycretin9 — 5:11 pm July 22, 2013 #

  22. come on man – the whole road diet thing is so annoying and counterproductive. not a solution.

    Comment by flimflam — 5:21 pm July 22, 2013 #

  23. It needn’t be as admittedly aggressive a diet (or maybe restrictive?) as I said previously. Here’s a good link for more info: http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/provencountermeasures/fhwa_sa_12_013.htm.

    Reducing speeds and improved safety are both the result. Also, I was aware Roxbury is in the plan. But intention is not action.

    Comment by JRR — 6:06 pm July 22, 2013 #

  24. Once the road completely degrades to a point where doing the Metro-Bus-Double-Lane-Stagger(that’s how I drive my car on 35th for several crap sections) becomes useless too, speeds will automatically crawl to 10 mph. Accident problem solved.

    Sarcasm aside…
    The road diet: Wow – bad idea. This road is one of 3 ways to get out of WS and is the main access to southbound highways if you are in lower west seattle.

    I can’t figure out why schools are near major arterials and not side streets. In an ideal world (yeah too late perhaps for WS), schools should be away of major arterials so that they are not affected by school zones.

    Comment by wsn00b — 6:25 pm July 22, 2013 #

  25. Widen Roxbury, Limit the Left turns to major intersections. Make it No Parking through White center….Like East bound.
    NO BICYCLE LANES.

    Comment by Fire Ball — 6:32 pm July 22, 2013 #

  26. Road Diet you mean like what they did on Harbor Ave, planted the center lane with trees, flowers and shrubbery and the WEEDS that are always 3 to 4 ft high because the City has no money to maintain it?! Looks lovely.

    And yes please fix Roxbury, I know one day one of my fenders is going to fall off from all those pot holes and built up cement from patch work… :>)

    Comment by nemobeansmom — 7:05 pm July 22, 2013 #

  27. Well, heck. The name of the game is speed limit enforcement. Jeez, Kirkland has this *concept* down pretty well. As does Bellevue.

    Speed limit enforcement. By real, live cops, for crying out loud.

    Nail the dorks that speed. Nail them.

    Comment by Speed Limit Enforcement — 7:52 pm July 22, 2013 #

  28. Repave the road. Make the white center portion no parking ever. Seriously parking there sometimes is causing accidents. Cameras in school zones and more radar. Let people know they will pay for idiotic behavior.

    Comment by nop — 8:03 pm July 22, 2013 #

  29. There has been plenty of speed enforcement on Roxbury during the school year. SPD Officer Cook, in his Dodge Charger, has issued 100′s of speeding tickets in the school zones at Holy Family, Roxhill and Arbor Heights on 35th SW over the past 6 years.
    *
    He won’t be at Roxhill or Holy Family when the cameras are installed. Look for him at Arbor Heights when school starts.

    Comment by ll — 8:59 pm July 22, 2013 #

  30. Roxbury never used to even be a street, it was a powerline thruway. I have pictures of my house, in 1942 at the end of the block next to nothing but powerlines.

    Older guy down the street told me ” the only thing that ever went down Roxbury was people on horseback and teenagers in WWII surplus jeeps.”

    I dont think they made it a street until 1963 or ’64

    Comment by smokeycretin9 — 9:21 pm July 22, 2013 #

  31. The problem has nothing to do with speed – I drove around that area today. It has to do with the worst planning ever – the area between 14th – 16th with all those lights and random stop signs going every which way are weird. It doesn’t need a face-lift, it needs a complete reconstruction.

    Comment by Sara — 11:11 pm July 22, 2013 #

  32. The only thing rox needs is repaving
    This is car accident central i have a pending crash that was on 8th n roxbury
    This area is the epicenter of seattle dui, not to mention stupid and uneducated people.
    U literally cant fix stupid
    Stay as four lanes cause there is just too much traffic for two lanes

    Comment by Craig — 12:05 am July 23, 2013 #

  33. I’m all for protecting kids, but it shouldn’t always be just school zones that receive enforcement. Adult pedestrians get killed too, and speeding on problem streets (35th, Roxbury, Fauntleroy, Admiral)affects lots of homeowner/taxpayers in a very negative way – including property values.

    I agree with Craig that White Center seems to have a concentration of drivers that are drunk or stupid. However, I do think a road diet is a good idea.

    Comment by anonyme — 6:47 am July 23, 2013 #

  34. I have to laugh at the “Road Diet” and Bike Lane proponents…
    They ACTUALLY BELIEVE that if there were MORE bike lanes, MORE people would ride bikes.
    What these people don’t realize is that with ALL the bike lanes that have taken away auto lanes, bikes used as a means of commuting to work hasn’t increased. It peaks right now and then come fall, winter and spring it tails off, but NEVER does it get above 5-6% of traffic. And it NEVER will.
    Repave Roxbury.
    Remove ALL parking along the 2+ mile length north and south sides.
    Install left turn lanes at 8th, 15th, 16th, 17th, 26th, 28th, 30th and 35th Aves SW, with left turn signals on 8th, 16th, 17th, 26th and 35th Aves SW.
    Place the “schoolzone” cameras at Holy Family and Roxhill School Zones.
    Conduct speed enforcement on the rest of Roxbury.
    BUT for GOD’S SAKE, DO NOT put Roxbury on a “road diet” or add bike lanes!!!

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 7:16 am July 23, 2013 #

  35. I’m sorry, but I take huge offense to Craig’s attitude and anonyme’s agreement that “This area is the epicenter of seattle dui, not to mention stupid and uneducated people. U literally cant fix stupid”. The irony of Craig’s post in his lack of proper capitalization, bad grammar and abbreviations of “U” are laughable at best. I can’t imagine that you have the statistics to back that statement up, so it’s just a mean spirited, unproductive thing to say. As for Ex-Westwood Resident. As you are an Ex-Westwood Resident, I image you don’t drive down, bike, walk or catch the bus on Roxbury anymore, correct? As for a critical mass of bike riders, you are right. But we need to make the streets safer for the people who do choose to ride. SDOT has been asked to conduct a survey by the residents who live in that area. It’s important to us, and by belittling us, you belittle yourself.

    Comment by Amanda — 8:54 am July 23, 2013 #

  36. Amanda, sorry, I missed that one. That’s the kind of comment we usually don’t approve for publication, any kind of derogatory generalization about people, geographic areas, etc. Apologies – TR

    Comment by WSB — 9:11 am July 23, 2013 #

  37. It’s okay Tracy, I shouldn’t let things like that fire me up. Thank you.

    Comment by Amanda — 9:16 am July 23, 2013 #

  38. First of all “Amanda” I moved a WHOLE 2 MILES south of Westwood so I STILL drive Roxbury EVERYDAY from 35th to Olsen Way, and points in between throughout the day.
    Second, I’m not against, or a bike rider “hater” I appauld those that want to ride. BUT, I have seen good riders (obeying ALL traffic laws and right-of-ways) and more often than the good ones – BAD ones that have the self-entitlement attitude, the “I am BETTER THAN YOU ‘CUZ I RIDE MY BIKE” type of riders that blow through stop signs, cut in front of cars, don’t bother to stop at crosswalks (yes I know car drivers do it too).
    The streets WERE NOT designed to accomadate BOTH bikes and cars and since cars are the preffered transportation of well over 90% of the general public, to remove a lane for less than 5% (at PEAK ride months) of those that use it is the epitome of STUPID.
    In most (IMO 98%) of cases there are alternative routes that are MUCH safer for bikes to use than the MAIN artirials that cars/busses/trucks use.

    And one more thing; HOW am I “belittling” YOU?
    I am in FULL support of making Roxbury a SAFER and BETTER street to travel on. But turning it to a one lane in each direction IS NOT the answer!!!!

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 12:50 pm July 23, 2013 #

  39. Oh…and I agree with in your assesment of Craig.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 1:11 pm July 23, 2013 #

  40. anonyme,

    Speed enforcement is not just in school zones.
    *
    Since 2007 the Seattle PD’s Aggressive Driver Response Team (ADRT) has issued literally hundreds of speeding citations on 35th, Admiral Way, Fauntleroy, West Seattle Bridge, Highland Parkway and the 1st Ave South Bridge. Plus, the Speed Camera Van has photographed hundreds of speeding vehicles on 35th Ave SW which resulted in citations issued.

    Comment by ll — 2:08 pm July 23, 2013 #

  41. I rode along with one of the officers for a story (including video when he detected a speeder – wow, those Chargers can accelerate) two years ago:
    .
    http://westseattleblog.com/2011/06/video-a-ride-with-the-aggressive-drivers-response-team

    Comment by WSB — 2:09 pm July 23, 2013 #

  42. Amanda, thanks for all the work you and others have put into this. Thanks for hosting the meetings, taking feedback, researching the data, and partnering with the city to get meaningful results for your community.
    .
    I don’t ride my bike on Roxbury much these days. I’m not living in an assisted care facility, or going to a grade school, or even being a pedestrian on that street. In fact the only time I travel it is by auto. Somehow, I manage not to marginalize or diminish every other user of the public right of way. IF the study comes back with a recommendation that an engineered solution is the best way forward, fantastic, because that is what I want. The best way forward. You know, for the owners of the road, which is pretty much all of us.
    .
    I wonder, can anyone cite sources on the negative effects of rechannelization? Empirical (google road rechannelization) and anecdotal (Fauntleroy) evidence suggests that accusations against them are hyperbole.

    Comment by McBride — 2:52 pm July 23, 2013 #

  43. I agree with Ex-Westwood. It just needs to have cameras in the school zone, no street parking on Roxbury, especially the area by Taqueria Guaymas. Also repave the road! The street going west between Holy Family and Safeway is an accident waiting to happen.

    Comment by Wes C. Addle — 3:58 pm July 23, 2013 #

  44. A few comments in response to some comments above:

    1) Nobody is considering lowering the speed limit on Roxbury, only enforcing the existing one. I would guess that many drivers are unaware that Roxbury is only 30 MPH for much of its length, well below the speed of most current drivers.

    2) Although the center line divides the City/County jurisdictions for some purposes, the City of Seattle maintains the road surface all the way to (but not including) the curb on the County side.

    3) If – and this is a big if – SDOT’s study decides that converting Roxbury to two travel lanes and a left-turn lane is the most effective way to meet safety needs, there is abundant evidence that this will not significantly affect traffic flows. On Fauntleroy Way, for example, the restriping resulted in delays of a few seconds. (http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-profiles/publicola/articles/2067103793)

    Comment by Chris — 4:28 pm July 23, 2013 #

  45. No amount of enforcement will stop the speeding problems on our 4 lane arterials. Too many drivers feel competetive in that environment and drive accordingly, causing safety problems for all residents and road users. A road diet will enforce the speed limit naturally and save a lot of tax dollars wasted on the administration of speeding tickets. A road diet will not slow down law-abiding drivers, and will make the road safer for everyone, drivers, pedestrians and bikers alike whether or not they include bike lanes in the design.

    Comment by Kathy — 7:34 pm July 23, 2013 #

  46. This is great to see happen. It’s great to see publicity on this important public safety issue by this blog. I hope the West Seattle Blog follows this at every turn and tells us how the city deals with this eminently reasonable and long overdue request. Car drivers race up Roxhill just feet or less away from pedestrians. They race past busses to jockey for position in the right turn lane to 35th. (Or, I-35 may describe 35th better.) Anyone who thinks a road diet will ruin the world just isn’t thinking straight. Sure, a road diet of one lane each way could add at most 2 minutes to a commute up and down Roxbury. Adding two minutes to a commute is life in the city: get over it. This is the most important West Seattle news I’ve read in a while. Bravo, WSB.

    Comment by Exploding whale luvr — 11:16 pm July 23, 2013 #

  47. Oh, and I also disagree with re-paving Roxbury at all — at least for now. Those potholes are lousy, and the pavement is awful on your car, even when you do 30mph or less. But the truth is, those lousy potholes are the only things that keep idiots from doing 70. Maybe once the street is cut from 4 to 2 lanes, then I’d be OK with re-paving.

    Comment by SLOW DOWN ON ROXBURY — 11:26 pm July 23, 2013 #

  48. Comparing Roxbury to Fauntleroy Way when talking about “Rechanneliztion” or “Road Diet” is idiotic.
    Why?
    The length of the “rechannelization” of Roxbury would be more than twice as long, Roxbury also has three to four times the car trips throughout the WHOLE day, Roxbury also has 3 or 4 four more bus routs and two school zones, and vibrant commercial zone/s. Fauntleroy Way has no school zones and no commercial zone.
    The back up caused by the busses when they stop would add more than a few minutes, esp. between 26th and 16th Ave SW and and the side streets would become a MAJOR pain when trying make left turns onto Roxbury.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 9:13 am July 24, 2013 #

  49. Ex-Westwood Resident:

    You can see on this map (http://www.seattle.gov/transportation/tfdmaps.htm) that in 2011 Fauntleroy had 17300 vehicles/day vs. 18700/day on Roxbury, hardly 3-4 times the volume.

    Likewise, a quick Google maps or Mapquest search shows that Fauntleroy Way from Morgan to Alaska is about 1.3 miles. Roxbury from 35th to 8th is about 1.5 miles. Again, not nearly “twice as long”.

    Comment by Chris — 10:03 am July 24, 2013 #

  50. Chris,

    Roxbury is from 4th Ave SW to 35th Ave Sw, a distance of 2 miles.
    The Fauntleroy rechanneliztion covered from California to Hudson, a distance of 1 mile.
    According to Googlemaps using their “drive to/from” application it seems that Roxbury IS twice as long.
    The MAJORITY of traffic of Faunleroy occurs twice a day 8-10AM and 4-6PM as people head from/to the Ferry.
    Roxbury has a more consistant use through out the day. But I will conceed the amount of cars that use the two roads are closer than I thought.
    But again Fauntleroy has NO stores/shops/restaurants or ANY other types of businesses, as well as NO schools between it’s channelization points. Also the amount of side streets entering Roxbury vice Fauntleroy is almost triple. Just thinking of the back-ups/slow downs that will form as people make right tuns from a single lane is daunting. At least with the two lanes the left can continue by without slowing down.
    To take the one major east/west route that south West Seattle/Arbor Heights/White Center and North Burien and reduce it to ONE lane each direction makes NO sense what so ever.
    Unless the goal is to FORCE people into busses or on to bikes (which wouldn’t surprise me as the goal).

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 10:57 am July 24, 2013 #

  51. Chris,
    Also Fauntleroy has NO stores/shops/restaurants and maybe one or two businesses, nor does not have ANY schools.
    The amount of roads where right turns are possible are at least triple that on Roxbury vice Fauntleroy, imagine the slowdown and delays that will form as people make right turns. At least with two lanes, the left can go on by while they are making the right.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 11:10 am July 24, 2013 #

  52. Ex-Westwood Resident:
    From what I understand, a center left turn lane would take turning vehicles out of the traffic flow, allowing vehicles to keep moving. Plus, turning vehicles would only have to cross ONE opposite direction lane vs the current 2 lanes, thus reducing accidents in that way.

    Comment by Chris — 12:18 pm July 24, 2013 #

  53. Chris,
    You are correct the “Center Left Turn Lane’ WILL take cars out of traffic, BUT ONLY FOR A LEFT TURN. Not a right turn.
    It works well on Fauntelroy because there are FAR fewer left, or right, turns than on Roxbury.
    I’m talking about those who will make a RIGHT turn, slowing to a crawl before they turn causing the slow down. Imagine if you have three cars making a right turn, on consecutive streets? The space in between the turns is about 1/4 the space on Fauntleroy.
    There are a total of 21 oppurtunities to make a right or left turn, in both directions (not 21 north and 21 south, but 21 TOTAL).
    There is a total of 53 oppurtunities for right/left turns on Roxbury.
    Now compare the types of tuns and the frequnecy that people will be making them. On Roxbury from 14th to 18th and 26th to 30th SW are a business districts with A LOT of businesses/stores that people visit having to make a right (or a left) to get to.
    The ONE lane will be packed with cars, esp when a bus, of which run the length of Roxbury, stops or if you have multiple cars making a right turn. The person making the left turn will sit there for a MUCH, MUCH longer time than otherwise.
    It IS illegal to use the center left turn lane as a passing lane and DANGEROUS, as you never know if there is going to be a person in the on coming lane the wants to make a left turn.
    Not only that, but think about those who want to cross at an intersection that has no signaled crosswalk.
    Granted crossing four lanes of traffic is a bit more risky than just two with a center turn lane, but you have a better chance of a break in traffic in the four lane scenario than in a two lane one because more room for cars to occupy.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 2:31 pm July 24, 2013 #

  54. Oh and if you don’t think the right turns cause a problem, then you haven’t been on 17th SW between 100th and Roxbury when someone wanted to make a right turn.
    It USED to be four lanes (two in each direction) before it was reconfigured to one lane in each direction with a center left turn lane and bike lanes on both sides of the street.
    I have seen it backed uped through the 100th/16th intersection northbound more than once, esp. when more than one car wants to make the right into one of the parking lots there.

    Comment by Ex-Westwood Resident — 2:38 pm July 24, 2013 #

  55. Chris, thanks for adding some objective data to this “conversation.”

    Comment by RickB — 2:49 pm July 24, 2013 #

  56. I live off of 12th and use Roxbury alot. Part of the peoblem are the hills which cause bad visability. The street would be like downtown during rush hours if it was made into a 2 lane street. In the afternoon the main intersections are very busy and there are times when traffic is backed up from 15th to 12th. This is a main road for those living in West Seattle, White Center, Delridge area. Even on 12th we see accidents from people trying to turn left or right and get hit because visibily from the hill or the high grass that contricts visibility is also a factor. Putting a bike lane would only cause people to become more impatient and want to cut around other cars. This is the only main road running east and west. Taking it to a 2 lane road would cause major traffic jams. Also its hard enough watching out for crazy drivers, and pedistrians, without worring about cyclists. Ive lived here 33 years and I dont know what the answer is but 2 lanes isnt going to work. Cut out the parking, fix the roads. I see the police out there alot and King County and Seattle Police do there best. People are going to speed so put cameras up, time the lights better to slow them down. The left turns are a big problem and people trying to get around the buses when they stop are a big factor too. I see this on 12th when the bus stops cars cut into the inside lane and accidents happen. Maybe more lights to slow it up even more.

    Comment by trish — 1:43 pm July 26, 2013 #

  57. Yes, slow them down but not too slow or regular speeders will just increase dangers on side streets as they create their own alternate routes.
    I think Holland and other European countries create some safety for bicyclists and pedestrians by having a lane for each buffered from moving vehicles by a parked lane of vehicles.

    Comment by fiona enzo — 8:15 am July 27, 2013 #

  58. Smokycretin, could you possibly post any photos of Roxbury in the 40s? Would love to see.

    Comment by fiona enzo — 8:35 am July 27, 2013 #

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