Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Why healthcare over education?
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
July 25, 2012 at 1:52 am #764409
JoBParticipantkootch..
if you don’t join a union, they can’t negotiate for better wages or benefits for you either…
both are individuals coming together to create better bargaining power.
and FYI.. i think some trade associations do provide group insurance rates for their members.
July 25, 2012 at 1:56 am #764410
JoBParticipantkootch..
your great aha link?
a public opinion piece based on the comments of Nick Hanauer
who is so eager to play both sides of the influence game that he has also announced plans to meet with Republican gubernatorial candidate Rob McKenna.
epic fail as any kind of justification of your views
July 25, 2012 at 5:43 am #764411
kootchmanMemberCause I read all side of an issue? Because when a major liberal figure recognizes public unions are getting in the way of education reform, that’s progress? Now that he has taken a stand on principal, and he wants to see the candidate .. I am fine with that. You gotta stay on the reservation to be a “true” liberal? No dissent tolerated? And you wonder why they need the franchise taken away.. no tolerance.
That’s it? That;s your best shot? Trade Associations can bargain for better healthcare benefits in unison? That hardly affects you or your taxes does it? If you ever do join a trade association.. they never tell you “ths is it, you HAVE to belong this health plan which by coincidence we happen to own”… now do they?
But… I will keep Citizens United … it’s been marvelous this year.
See unions can and do overreach. In the private sector that balance is the company goes bankrupt ( see GM ) or rather should go bankrupt. Or, the owners decide.. ummm too much is going to the unions.. I am selling or moving. But we can’t do that with public unions… we raise taxes. It’s a gotcha kond of deal. Although, they have indeed broken and are breaking the ability of governments to sustain the load and increase the taxes.
It’s sorta like Diane Feinstein stating the security leaks from the White House are unacceptable,.. although she did a Cory Booker .. but for republicans and conservatives, it’s nice to see some bi-partisan agreement when the facts are out there for all to see and it is news and noteworthy….playing politics with national security is a new low even for Tom Donilon. Hack.
July 25, 2012 at 5:50 am #764412
kootchmanMemberActually it was sorta directed to JV… but since it is so newsworthy, let’s give a banner line, shall we?
The overdue split among Democrats on education reform.
The Washington Education Association’s rigid anti-education-reform stance puts the Democratic Party at risk. A longterm political relationship hits a rough patch.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2017562941_lynne22.html
July 25, 2012 at 5:56 am #764413
kootchmanMembereliepedia…
“Unlike other organizations, union members have mechanisms available to them to opt out of political spending.”
What other organizations take employee money and use it for political purposes? None? How about unions do it like the rest of us.. VOLUNTARY contributions? That opt clause was not from the good heart and soul of the unions.. that came from the Supreme Court. Unions fought it tooth and nail to keep the bribe train rolling… SCOTUS found that unconstitutional. They also found opt out to be unconstitutional too! (Those unions.. slippery devils aren’t they?!!)
Here’s the decision…. Wisconsin was a bad, bad, judgement call by unions… they were slapped from every side. SCOTUS expanded opt out to be “opt in”. and that means for EVERY union in every state … including WA. AND.. they lost 20 million in the Wisc fight… wanna go for another round?
Coming on the heels of Gov. Scott Walker’s recall victory in Wisconsin, today sees another blow to public-sector employee unions.
The Supreme Court handed down its decision rejecting the idea that governmental employee unions can use funds from non-members for political means. In an opinion by Justice Samuel Alito, the basis of the majority’s argument rested on First Amendment rights. Essentially, while non-members are expected to pay a certain fee to unions for any benefits they may receive through collective bargaining efforts, they have no constitutional obligation to supply funds to politicians or campaigns with which they disagree.
The majority even went one step further, mandating that government unions must switch to an “opt-in” system for such payments. This means the employees themselves must go out of their way to agree to have their money diverted elsewhere. Traditionally, unions used an “opt-out” system, and employees had to speak up if they wanted to keep their money out of the political arena. Guess that is one Obama can’t executive override.
July 25, 2012 at 6:15 am #764414
JVMemberGreat article Kootch. That should have been in the first post…it probably would have saved some of the EDU apologists a lot of time.
July 25, 2012 at 6:54 am #764415
kootchmanMemberTough love… ya gotta force em into the lifeboat… and still they say such nasty personal things. Hew miws… before I forget it… yea I paid for private school… AND public schools too. All those teachers pay mortgages, property taxes, sales taxes, buy cars, shop and bank, support libraries..etc.. and that system is one of West Seattle’s largest employers! I did the math back in one of the education forums… BUT… if all those private schools decided to shut the doors… the state would have to come up with over 8 BILLION dollars.. right now. Cause primary education is a constitutional mandate.. libraries, parks, metro, police, fire fighters, public universities, healthcare, ferry system… are NOT. Hey buddy.. then ya gotta figure where the budget to build over 250 new schools is going to come from. No, you haven’t paid a damn dime to educate mine… not thanks necessary. Not to mention the safe, dignified, church subsidized senior citizens homes in west Seattle.. like Mt. St. Vincent? way to deep think that one through miws..
“If so, elikapedia and others, really, did pay for that, in the sense that taxpayers end up paying more, to make up for the fact that churches don’t pay taxes.”
Got a spare 8 billion laying around?
July 25, 2012 at 7:37 am #764416
kootchmanMemberJV… maybe the last post… but from the Florida governor which will not be participating in Obamacare…
excerpts
We don’t want to be forced into a position where we have to choose between Medicaid and education or other important parts of our state budget.
We need to help people get the skills and education they need to get a job, and help the private sector succeed so it has jobs to offer. Then you’ll have fewer people dependent on government programs because they’ll be pulling themselves out of poverty and financial distress.
July 25, 2012 at 1:08 pm #764417
redblackParticipantWith the unions, after the dues are extracted, those dues are given to Dem politicians almost exclusively, so they can have their selected Dem on the other side of the negotiating table. To negotiate with OUR TAX DOLLARS.
JV: you don’t have the first clue what you’re talking about when it comes to union dues.
not a single clue.
by the yea, our tax dollars also pay people on the “management” side of the negotiating table when it comes to school board contracts. it takes two to tango.
want better contracts? get your people on the school boards.
July 25, 2012 at 1:10 pm #764418
redblackParticipantWe don’t want to be forced into a position where we have to choose between Medicaid and education or other important parts of our state budget.
so figure out how to pay for it without attacking wages and benefits.
not so easy to govern when all you want to do is take a meat axe to every tax and fee, is it?
July 25, 2012 at 3:40 pm #764419
kootchmanMemberwant better contracts? get your people on the school boards.
No, get the unions out of the negotiating business. The we don’t have to watch while union dollars fund ever school board campaign and elect every government legislator.
we are winning redblack… bit by bit.. we are going to bust public unions … they have gotten too greedy.
July 26, 2012 at 7:29 am #764420
dobroParticipantHere’s some info about some other charter schools and the kind of folks who run them…
Dorothy June Hairston Brown, Philadelphia Charter School Mogul, Charged With Defrauding $6.5 Million In Tax Dollars
“Philadelphia charter school mogul Dorothy June Hairston Brown was charged Tuesday — along with four colleagues — with defrauding three charter schools of more than $6.5 million in tax dollars.
Brown and her executives were indicted on 62 counts of wire fraud, obstruction of justice and witness tampering. She had earned praise for student test scores and had a reputation for claiming large salaries and filing suits against parents who questioned her, the Philadelphia Inquirer reports.”
She also had role in creating Agora Cyber Charter School, which offers online lessons to students across the state.
“Brown founded three Philadelphia charter schools: the Laboratory, Ad Prima and Planet Abacus. She also had a hand in creating the Agora Cyber Charter School, which offers online lessons to students across the state. Brown was reportedly paid $150,000 for working 30 hours weekly at Laboratory and $115,904 for a single week at Ad Prima.
“Charter schools are funded with public money that is intended to help educate children in our communities,” Special Agent in Charge George C. Venizelos of the Philadelphia Division of the FBI said in a statement. “When individuals misappropriate those funds, as this indictment today alleges, they trade our children’s education and our children’s future for their own illegal profit.”
FBI agents also raided another school.
Nick Trombetta, Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School Founder, Has Office Raided By FBI Agents
“FBI agents on Thursday raided the office of Pennsylvania Charter Cyber School founder Nick Trombetta, who is suspected of misusing Pennsylvania tax dollars to fund his out-of-state ventures, KDKA News reports.
The FBI raided the administrative offices of PA Cyber and other ventures founded by Trombetta, including the Avanti Management Group — a for-profit consultant firm based in Ohio.
The Pennsylvania Cyber Charter School, founded in 2000, enrolled more than 11,300 students in the 2011-12 academic year and has an annual budget of more than $100 million. Critics say the $10,000 the school receives for each child far exceeds the cost of educating a student online, and that the excess money has gone to other Trombetta ventures such as the National Network of Digital Schools and the Lincoln Interactive, which develops and markets online curriculum.
These ventures have spawned cyber schools nationwide, and a federal investigation is now underway to determine if Trombetta personally profited.”
Another Pennsylvania virtual charter school was also shut down.
Frontier Virtual High School In Pennsylvania Shuts Down After Failed Years
“Education officials said their investigation of the charter school exposed a litany offenses, according to the Philadelphia Daily News.
One Department document read: “Frontier incurred significant expenses and debt that were unrelated to the delivery of services to students of a cyber charter school, including purchases at restaurants, cash withdrawals that were not substantiated with receipts… and local transportation token purchases.”
The charter school’s decision to shut down was announced by the state secretary of education Ron Tomalis Thursday afternoon, according to CBS Philly.”
Let’s not leave Florida out of the picture. Several Imagine Charter Schools are being threatened with closing for huge taxpayer debt and very poor grades.
And today another charter school was shut down.
A.T. Jones Academy officially closed; letter emailed to parents, faculty
“At a board meeting last Thursday, parents accused board members of financial mismanagement that drove the school into more than $100,000 worth of debt.
“It all comes down to not knowing how to balance a checkbook,” said parent Dino Scanio.
Parents asked where all the school’s money went only to be told all their questions would be addressed in an email sent out Monday. No email was ever sent.
Teachers are also owed money after money was deducted from their paychecks for health insurance even though the board terminated their insurance without telling them.”
I guess there’s more to it than waiting for superman. Why wait. Steal the money now.
July 26, 2012 at 8:44 am #764421
kootchmanMemberI got tons of good ones .. but ya make a good point… they can shut them down if they don’t meet their mandate. As SPS should be. So let’s give em a chance… instead of kicking our heels and going no no no no change… it working fine… for the WEA!
MANHATTAN — The Success Academy’s charter schools often spark controversy when opening in new neighborhoods, but school seats there are still highly coveted among many parents.
The network, founded by former City Councilwoman Eva Moskowitz, received 10 times as many applications for the upcoming year as there were open seats for its 12 city schools.
The schools received a record 12,374 applications for 1,200 seats for the next school year — up 37 percent from 2011 — with more than 30 percent of those applications coming from English Language Learners, the organization’s officials said.
Quick primer: Charters are public schools that generally operate independently of traditional school districts. Since 1992, they have grown in number from one in Minnesota to about 5,000 in 40 states and the District of Columbia
Funny… look at what happens when there is choice…
The schools received a record 12,374 applications for 1,200 seats for the next school year — up 37 percent from 2011 — with more than 30 percent of those applications coming from English Language Learners, the organization’s officials said.
Seattle parents are desperate to ge OUT..
And funny funny JoB saying they cherry pick..desperatley want to believe it is true
By law, when more students apply to a charter than there are seats available, the school has to hold a lottery to determine who gets in.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2025310,00.html#ixzz21iRuFo76
See? Growing everywhere where the are allowed. Out of over 5000 I am sure you can find a few failures on the NEA web site.
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2025310,00.html#ixzz21iQGXfcy
But the best charter schools are not random at all; they significantly and consistently outperform the averages, and they have a lot in common with each other in their ethos and operations. In particular these schools — which, in some states, have opened reverse achievement gaps with low-income minority students outpacing state averages — have tight controls over who teaches in them, a relentless focus on results, and an intense use of data to inform decisions.
There is also solid evidence that their successes can be reproduced and scaled up in networks such as KIPP (99 schools in 20 states), Uncommon Schools (24 schools in three states), Achievement First (17 schools in Connecticut and New York) and Aspire Public Schools (30 schools in California).
and the bad….
And given the Seattle School Board.. WA State should make charter schools totally divorced and an Charter School Board of Education appointed at the state level.
Low-performing charters have some things in common as well. In a 2007 analysis of charter schools across 12 states and cities, my colleague Sara Mead and I found that charter quality is linked to state policy and support. Put plainly: While some failure is inevitable, low-performing charter schools are not a randomly occurring phenomenon, and there are steps policymakers can take to increase or decrease the quality of their charter sector. Those steps include strong oversight and adequate finance
Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2025310,00.html#ixzz21iTMOzuC
July 26, 2012 at 8:44 am #764422
kootchmanMemberBut more money for more of the same just makes the same old crap more expensive. Read the Time article ,… we cannot afford more generations of kids to get their asses kicked in a world labor force.. every generation owes the successive ones a better chance… not a gross national debt and unfunded liability of over $ 187,000 dollars per head to pay off with wal Mart skills and wages….
July 26, 2012 at 1:57 pm #764423
redblackParticipantNo, get the unions out of the negotiating business. The we don’t have to watch while union dollars fund ever school board campaign and elect every government legislator.
and we won’t sit by and watch you bankrupt then tear down public school systems all so someone else can get his hands on those tax dollars and turn a profit.
but really now, you overstate the union wage and incompetence case a little too stridently. you have an axe to grind, don’t you?
July 26, 2012 at 3:29 pm #764424
JVMemberWith the unions, after the dues are extracted, those dues are given to Dem politicians almost exclusively, so they can have their selected Dem on the other side of the negotiating table. To negotiate with OUR TAX DOLLARS.
[redblack]
JV: you don’t have the first clue what you’re talking about when it comes to union dues.
not a single clue.
Redblack, I stand by my comment because that is how the political corruption works between the unions and Democrats. They contribute to Dems, then they have their cronies determining how much the tax payers should pay. Was a great scam for a while, but now the facade is crumbling.
July 27, 2012 at 4:06 am #764425
redblackParticipantThey contribute to Dems, then they have their cronies determining how much the tax payers should pay.
well, duh.
like unions are going to contribute to republicans. LOL.
again, you have no idea what my union dues pay for.
none whatsoever.
want a clue? join a union. until then, you’re just regurgitating talking points.
July 27, 2012 at 4:44 am #764426
kootchmanMemberYou think I have never been a union? But.. that’s why we have Citizens United… so the 93 per cent of the country has a voice at the bargaining table.. not physically present, but at least heard. Now we are “buying” candidates too! The circle is round.
July 27, 2012 at 4:49 am #764427
JVMemberAnother strong come back from redblack!
Two posts saying, “you don’t know what you’re talking about” is one step above “nuh-uuuhhh” or “I know you are but what am I?” on the intelligent response hierarchy.
I paid union dues about 20 years ago…but I didn’t pay attention to politics back then. I don’t mind unions giving to Democrats, but the percentage should represent the views of the members. And the politicians receiving the donations should be representing their constituents, not paying back favors. That is called corruption and you may notice that people are a bit pissed about it.
July 27, 2012 at 5:05 am #764428
redblackParticipantI don’t mind unions giving to Democrats, but the percentage should represent the views of the members.
they usually do. unions are democratic by nature.
how do you think those union thugs got to the top of the food chain, anyway?
And the politicians receiving the donations should be representing their constituents, not paying back favors.
you’re new to this country, aren’t you?
That is called corruption and you may notice that people are a bit pissed about it.
thanks for the lesson on criminal law.
and what is it called when you buy an election with corporate campaign cash?
anyway, as professor kootch has pointed out, unions represent 7% of the american work force.
so why are you all so freaked out?
regarding dues, i’ll be generous and let you in on a little secret: by law, a small fraction of dues are allowed to be used for political contributions. and in most unions, the local or international has to have consent from the member approving such use.
sorry to bust a hole in your “union boss/thug” argument.
July 27, 2012 at 5:06 am #764429
kootchmanMemberThey used to close the bars on election day…. too keep the politicians from bribing voters with strong drink. It was considered corrupt to buy and sell the vote. Then, we allowed it to become institutionalized. Ahhh.. now, unions want to “know” the donors for Romney.. give us the union rosters and the addresses of “union” donors. Free speech does not require registration… that too would be restraint of free speech.. why the WSB lives on the strength that free speech can be anonymous. Donors to campaigns must be identified. There was a reason for “Poor Richard”… in lieu of Ben Franklin.
July 27, 2012 at 5:11 am #764430
redblackParticipantAhhh.. now, unions want to “know” the donors for Romney.. give us the union rosters and the addresses of “union” donors.
dude! how deep does this go?
how much money does this union thug political force that represents a dwindling fraction of the american workforce have?
should i buy a gun to defend myself against this union thuggery?
or should i just keep paying my comcast bill and STFU?
July 27, 2012 at 8:47 pm #764431
kootchmanMemberThe haven’t “dwindled” enough in the public sector. Like I said,private parties making private contracts.. for it. You can join arms a make a company successful, or join hands and jump off a bridge. Your contracts can insure success fo failure. However, as of late, causing governments to fail has been the trajectory of public unions. But, the public looks at their resources, and goes wth? Every dime of public employee compensation packages come out of the pocket of taxpayers. They should index the public payroll to a series of fundamental data points, CPI, GDS, Inflation etc. You can’t tax and spend, compensate public employees at rates that are double their personal income rates.
July 28, 2012 at 4:20 pm #764432
redblackParticipantHowever, as of late, causing governments to fail has been the trajectory of public unions.
i find this a disturbing trend: republicans blaming others for the things that they have done to our cities and towns intentionally.
actually, if you believe that the very notion of pension funds themselves – as opposed to those who managed the pension funds to bankruptcy – you should be thanking the unions for bankrupting government so that you can embark of your anarcho-utopian privatization schemes.
good luck.
July 28, 2012 at 4:43 pm #764433
kootchmanMemberNow the big ones are going down… Miami is next.
MIAMI, FL – Desperate to avert financial chaos, Miami commissioners are expected to vote on drastic salary and pension cuts Tuesday that could help fill a $105 million budget hole.
The financial blueprint, coming for a vote four months after the city declared a state of “financial urgency,” is expected to reduce salaries by $31 million and pension payouts by more than $41 million. The city could save another $7 million by changing healthcare providers while charging higher deductibles and co-payments.
The average firefighter in Miami earns almost $90,000 a year, and many rank among the city’s top 10 earners, pulling in more than $300,000 annually in combined salary and benefits. Police average about $74,000 in salary, general service workers $66,000.
Bet they could use some trickle down ….
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.