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January 31, 2008 at 9:31 pm #586322
AnonymousInactiveI have another question about the area. If you are driving from 35th Ave. north of Fauntleroy towards California Ave., which way should traffic yield through that neighborhood? A lot of the intersections have those round abouts, but some don’t and some don’t have yield or stop signs for either street. We have seen traffic going both ways without even slowing down.
January 31, 2008 at 9:37 pm #614565
SueParticipantPersonally, when I come to an unmarked intersection, I will yield until I’m sure I won’t get hit. I’ve seen too many people blow through those intersections without a second glance, and also plowing into the traffic circles without noticing you’re there already, so for my own safety I treat them like yields or stop signs always. I figure it doesn’t matter what you’re “supposed” to do if someone does something else and hits you.
January 31, 2008 at 9:45 pm #614566
AnonymousInactiveSue, thanks for the great advice and I have to admit, since we’ve seen people drive right through those intersections without slowing down, we always slow down and look, but if there is a car behind us, forget about it. I’ve actually been yelled at by another motorist for slowing down at each intersection. I was just curious who has the right of way.
January 31, 2008 at 9:48 pm #614567
JimmyGMemberAll uncontrolled intersections are the same as a 4 way stop. It doesn’t matter if you think the road you are traveling on is the “main” road or not, you yield to those there first, and if you arrive at the same time then yield to the car to your right.
And just so everyone knows, the traffic circles that the city of Seattle thinks are the answer to everything? If it’s safe to do so, you don’t have to go all the way around the circle when turning left, you can go in front of it to take your left turn.
January 31, 2008 at 9:52 pm #614568
JimmyGMemberFor example in my neighborhood at the uncontrolled intersection by my house I have to turn left. I can’t count how many times I’m there with my left turn signal on when someone approaches straight at me after I’ve all ready been at the intersection, and tries to go through without yielding to my left turn.
They need to realize the law treats the uncontrolled intersection as if there are stop signs at all 4 corners. So by my being first to the intersection and wanting to turn left means the other person must stop and allow me to complete my left.
January 31, 2008 at 10:37 pm #614569
JanSParticipantit has always been my understanding that at unmarked intersections not on an arterial (which has the right of way), if you arrive at an intersection at the same time as someone else, you yield to the car on the right, just as at a 4 way stop…..at least thats how I tend to do things. Not everyone pays attention to that, so do what seems the safest :)
January 31, 2008 at 10:44 pm #614570
SueParticipantJimmy, I don’t see anything in the drivers handbook about being able to make a left turn through the circle without going all the way around. In fact, it looks as if they say you always have to go around the circle. http://dol.wa.gov/driverslicense/driverguide.pdf (page 33 of the guide). Is there another place that you know if that has more details about the (legal) ability to turn left without going around the circle?
January 31, 2008 at 10:49 pm #614571
JulieMemberNewResident, some drivers will yell at you even if you’re doing the right and legal thing. Same thing happens to me, but I just pull over and wait for them to pass me and go ahead. I’ve seen too many accidents at both ends of my block, and don’t want to be in one. (As an aside, and quite unscientifically, I’ve noticed that since we’ve had the traffic circle installed at one end of the block (a year, maybe two), I’ve observed no accidents there. The other end of the block still has at least one accident a year.)
January 31, 2008 at 10:53 pm #614572
AnonymousInactiveYeah. I think the circles in the intersections are a good idea. I do have to say, though, that I thought you have to ALWAYS go entirely around the circle, even if no other cars are present.
February 1, 2008 at 3:39 am #614573
JimmyGMemberSue, you’re confusing a roundabout with a traffic circle, they are two completely different animals.
A traffic circle’s sole reason for being is to slow traffic, a roundabout’s purpose is to move cars more quickly than a 4-way stop with less guesswork for drivers.
Seattle DOT views an intersection with a traffic circle as an uncontrolled intersection and a “short” left may be made when it’s safe and practical to do so.
February 1, 2008 at 4:00 am #614574
SueParticipantJimmy, in my travels roundabouts and traffic circles are considered the same – if that’s not the case in Seattle, it’s news to me.
I’ve emailed SDOT to verify this rule about the left turns in traffic circles and will follow up here when I hear some definitive info. Unless you have some citation somewhere that I can look at that actually says that. I’m not accusing you of lying, but forgive me if I don’t base my traffic law compliance on a comment on a blog forum without some proof. :)
February 1, 2008 at 4:07 am #614575
JimmyGMemberNo big deal to me if you believe me or not.
Do a search on traffic circles in the Seattle Times “bumper to bumper” column and you’ll find the head of SDOT quoted as saying that is how they interpret the rule on lefts.
But a roundabout and a traffic circle aren’t the same, they exist for completely different reasons and serve different purposes.
February 1, 2008 at 2:21 pm #614576
JeraldParticipantJimmyG is correct. The circumference of a traffic circle is too small for some vehicles (like trucks and fire engines) to go around, so turning left in in front is permitted, when safe. But you’ll find that out somewhere, I’m sure.
February 1, 2008 at 5:54 pm #614577
swimcatMemberI saw the traffic circle rule on the Seattle Times website; they have a short ‘driving test’ you can take. It’s kind of fun, I only wish they had more questions so people could refresh their memories. As for unmarked intersections, it always amazes me that people just blow right through them.
February 1, 2008 at 5:54 pm #614578
KenParticipantTurning short is ok on traffic calming devices which is what a “traffic circle” is called here by the Dept of Poor Planning.
I don’t think I have seen any real “roundabouts” here in Seattle that I can remember.
Also note, the only traffic they “calm” seems to be school buses, delivery trucks and access buses.
The double truck dump trucks and construction vehicals just run over them at full speed and the suv’s and low riders both just blast through with a cell phone glued to their ear.
I am close enough to one to set up a web cam.
February 3, 2008 at 8:56 pm #614579
JillParticipantJust for reference, one “real” roundabout I know of around here is on Bainbridge — at High School Rd. and Madison. Can’t remember one in Seattle either, though.
February 3, 2008 at 9:51 pm #614580
ErikParticipantUniversity Place (west of Tacoma and just South of the Narrows Bridge) has a few roundabouts. Bend,OR is roundabout crazy.
February 4, 2008 at 10:24 pm #614581
swimcatMemberTHere are round-abouts in Issaquah and North Bend. At least Seattle doesn’t have the big round-abouts they have back east (Rhode Island comes to mind). Can you imagine the mayhem here?? No one would know what to do!
February 5, 2008 at 11:47 pm #614582
SueParticipantThis is the email reply I just got from someone at SDOT:
“Thank you for your inquiry regarding the rules pertaining to left turns at neighborhood traffic circles. You are correct that the Washington Driver Guide (and the state law that the guide implements), does not distinguish between
neighborhood traffic circles and roundabouts.
Practically speaking, a left turn can be performed safely in front of a neighborhood traffic circle since they are typically located on low traffic volume and low speed residential streets, unlike roundabouts, which control traffic flow on higher volume arterials.
However, under a strict interpretation of the Driver Guide and state laws, this is not a legal left turn, and similarly to roundabouts, a driver turning left at a neighborhood traffic circle should proceed counterclockwise around the traffic circle, rather than turning left in front of the circle.
We recognize that this issue causes confusion, and the City will be working this year toward clarifying the distinction between neighborhood traffic circles and roundabouts in state law, addressing the issue in the Seattle Municipal
Code, or both.”
So I read this as yeah, you’ll probably get away with it because we usually ignore it, but it’s technically not legal to make the short left and you COULD get a ticket for it if somebody is bored and wants to write a ticket.
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