What’s in this Stimulus Bill?

[Sky2625]

I want YOU to review the Stimulus Package!

Welcome all! I’ll open with a quote from Thomas Jefferson:

“Whenever the people are well informed, they can be trusted with their own government; that whenever things get so far wrong as to attract their notice, they may be relied on to set them to rights.”

Are YOU well-informed? What have our representatives done and said in the last few weeks? If it all goes “so far wrong,” will you know it?

I want responders to this topic to provide a thumbs-up or thumbs-down on something in the stimulus package. Work hard a making “economic recovery, job creation, and meaningful impact” major criteria. If you have to work at finding a up or down point, then guess what? You’re informing yourself!

This is not about Bush, this is not about those loony liberals and those kooky conservatives, it’s not about Obama.

This is about keeping a wary eye on those you’ve given power to, and making sure they stick to the principles YOU find important.

So start investigating what’s in this bill…

http://appropriations.house.gov/pdf/PressSummary01-15-09.pdf

…and inform your fellow citizens here!

I’ll start:

Thumbs-up: Page 4 – Cleaning Fossil Energy – $2.4 billion for carbon sequestration demonstration projects. Though not really the government’s role, hopefully this can lead to an industry breakthrough, one that will allow guilt-free carbon-sequestered coal plants, and put us on the road to energy independence.

Thumbs-down: Page 4 – GSA Federal Fleet – $600 million to replace older government vehicles with more fuel-efficient versions. Wait til the older vehicles break down, THEN replace them with fuel-efficient vehicles, because that expense *should* already be planned for.

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[Ken]

Federal fleet vehicles usually get replaced in groups and by age. I am pretty sure this bill does not plan to replace all in-service vehicles owned by the gummint since 600 mil would not be enough and many of them are already hybrids or types of vehicles which do not have more fuel efficient versions.

http://cta.ornl.gov/data/tedb27/Edition27_Chapter07.pdf

This page shows the previously passed acts which this appropriation will take from the PR/Window dressing stage into reality.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/femp/about/fleet_requirements.html

Also note: Federal whistleblower protection was amended into the bill a couple of hours ago.

http://www.pogo.org/pogo-files/alerts/government-oversight/go-so-20090127.html

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[Zenguy]

I like the overall theme of investing in this country’s severely neglected infrastucture, roads, bridges, a new power grid and most importantly making sure the next generation can compete on a global scale.

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[JoB]

sky2625…

that was a lot more than 8 pages… i know because i printed them out to read and highlight:(

there are a few things in there that bother me… the first is giving all money to the CDC to build facilities when the institution itself is in serious need of reform… i say reform first and rebuild later…

the second is putting money into the smartgrid for electrical service without regulating energy traders who drive up the cost of electricity…

but overall, i was struck by the intention to spend money in areas that would create long term infrastructure benefit and/or would increase America’s competitive scientific stature to lure investment…

I was also struck by how small a dent the investments in infrastructure would make in our overall need.

Our tunnel project may well qualify for federal funds since it was rushed through to become an existing program… but we have no existing plan for a public transit program that could compete for federal dollars.. the backlog of approved programs is simply too large.

If nothing else, this document showed me how great the need is for America to invest in itself…

after all.. we aren’t going to find any other country willing to fund a Marshall plan or anything similar for us…

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[JoB]

what’s not in the stimulus bill

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/bank-of-america-hosted-an_n_161248.html

or this..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/27/obama-officials-tells-cit_n_161202.html

but republican’s approved the bail out plan for banks….

not the stimulus package

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/28/house-gop-stimulus-plan-h_n_161564.html

this is disappointing at best…

“Republicans said the bill was short on tax cuts and contained too much spending, much of it wasteful and unlikely to help laid-off Americans.”

You have to wonder if they actually read the bill…

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[beachdrivegirl]

Shocking! All the missing stuff came from a liberal based news source. Who would have guessed???

and Sky2265 i look forward to reading all 13 pages and reporting back to you later!!

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[Ken]

BTW: the “Cleaning Fossil Energy” demonstration money is a dare to put up or stfu to the “Clean Coal” lobby.

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[JoB]

killing the messenger doesn’t change the message…

the first article cited contains actual audio clips of the phone conversation cited…

the second was sourced by an ABC news report

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/Politics/story?id=6740011&page=1

if you have conflicting information, post it…

that’s how conversation happens.

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[c@lbob]

Moody’s investor service came up with an analysis of the effectiveness of government spending in terms of the economic activity for dollars spent.

Food stamps return $1.73 in economic activity for every dollar.

Infrastructure projects get $1.59 per dollar.

Tax cuts can work, $1.03 per buck.

Corporate tax cuts are losers, $0.30 per $1.00.

1/3 of the bill is tax cuts. They are fast acting, at least the ones that work, but fixing our bridges and roads are better investments.

A civil engineering society estimates that the US would need to spend 2.2 trillion in the next five years to get the infrastructure up to snuff. The piddling hundreds of billions in the stimulus bill won’t do much to fill that bill.

Increase unemployment payments and provide people with food. These seem to be the fastest, and most effective ways to prime the pump.

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[HMC Rich]

Does everybody know that this Stimulus Package is another 819 Billion dollars on top of the 700 Billion dollar “bail out”? 1.5

Trillion more dollars. OMG. This is additional money. Just wanted to make that clear.

I don’t understand the hurry in getting it done when I believe only 3 percent will have any affect this year and the next year 16 percent. Historically, when government passes bills too fast they don’t work as well.

I have a problem with the terminology because they NEED to pass it NOW but it won’t really be available NOW. If they really want to stimulate the private sector, drop the corporate tax rate. I believe ours is one of the highest in the world at around 35%. If you feel the need go to this link http://www.worldwide-tax.com/ then scroll down to the United States link and you can see all tax rates.

I am still reading all of your links. Once I have time I will gladly tell you what I think. I already have a problem with …stay tuned

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[HMC Rich]

Nice Post CatlBob

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[JoB]

HMCRich…

The problem with the first bailout is that it went to corporations.. who didn’t use the money to retain employees… or loan money.. or do anything else that would actually help our economy…

i fear the same would happen with a tax cut given to corporations…

now if that tax cut were given to manufacturing companies with plants in the United States… employing Americans… i might be willing…

you get the most bang for the buck when you give the money to those who need it the worst.

imagine that… the compassionate course is also the most effective..

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[HMC Rich]

The banks aren’t lending either. Yes the first bailout was a partial bust wasn’t it? Although I think I heard Chrysler sees light at the end of the tunnel.

I had a thought. The automakers CEO’s were trashed for flying in private jets and made alternative means on getting to DC the second time. So…I wonder how many of our elected officials in congress have “American Made” cars. How many of them have vehicles that get 35 mph? I was just curious. Personally, I like Mazda’s. I think if Congress demands certain things then they should be representative and accountable. Ha.. that won’t happen!

Don’t get me wrong. I like free markets but I do not trust some of these Corporations that received the money. They have screwed up big time (Along with Barney Frank and W) But I also know all these regulations from the Federal Government in some of these industries makes everything cost more. Read John Stossel’s book about Lies, Myths etc.

I do not disagree with your post JoB. Thanks for the invite the other day. It was great to see a few of you at Full Tilt. My son is ruined. He will be an Ice Cream Fiend Pinball Wizard.

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[Anonymous]

I was looking forward to President Obams’s economic stimulus spending even though I didn’t vote for him.

Now it seems as though the spending has very little to do with economic stimulus.

For example:

How is one third of one billion dollars of spending on STD (Sexually Transmitted Diseases) an economic stimulus?

http://www.drudgereport.com/flashsb.htm

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[Anonymous]

Here is a URL current as of 1:57am PST for a Washington Times article about whether it should be $335,000,000 (335 million dollars) or $400,000,000 (400 million dollars) for STD (Sexually Transmitted Diseases) federal spending for an “economic stimulus”:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/29/economic-stimulus-bills-allot-millions-for-std-pre/

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[Ken]

http://davidsirota.com/index.php/2006/05/30/john-stossel-is-a-pathological-liar/

Stossel is not a fool, he is however, not a journalist either.

And the moonie times? WTF?

The states are already spending it, this just puts some federal dollars back in each state budget.

If you don’t spend money on fighting STD’s after the Bushco war on sex education, it’s both the poor (Democrats) and the willfully ignorant (Republicans) who will pay the price.

Hey! I found the bipartisanship in the bill.

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[c@lbob]

A falsehood that has been spread widely since 1/20 states that a CBO analysis of the economic recovery plan was a full analysis of the bill and goes on to falsely suggest that in that analysis, the CBO found that the majority of the money in the plan would not get spent within the first year and a half. In fact, that CBO report was only a partial analysis and addressed only a component of the proposal, not the overall package.

The CBO subsequently released its “Cost Estimate” of H.R. 1, an analysis of the entire recovery plan as introduced in the House of Representatives, and concluded that 64 percent of the package would be spent by the end of the fiscal year 2010: “Combining the spending and revenue effects of H.R. 1, CBO estimates that enacting the bill would increase federal budget deficits by $169 billion over the remaining months of fiscal year 2009, by $356 billion in 2010, by $174 billion in 2011, and by $816 billion over the 2009-2019 period.”

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[JoB]

ScottB…

i admit that i haven’t downloaded the actual bill passed by the House to go over it with a highlighter as i did the link sky2625 provided….

but in that bill i didn’t see any money targeted to STDs…

i did see 3 billion to fight preventable chronic diseases… and it is entirely possible that that money was provided under that to fight STDs.. which by the way covers a broad range of diseases … including HPV .. which left untreated can lead to cervical cancer… and death.

The problem with letting pundits do our reading for us and define the issues is that they tend to skip over the big picture and focus on headline producing details…

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[Jiggers]

The Stimulus Package won’t work. Creating jobs long-term works. It’s just more wasteful spending by the government who obviously can’t run their own business effectively.

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[Ken]

Jiggers. Please explain how giving billions to Saudi owned banks with no oversight or hope of repayment is good for any business other than the banks involved and their shareholders. Extra points for explaining how shared risk is capitalism but shared reward is socialism.

No republican worried about where the money was going until it looked like the American worker might get a little.

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[Anonymous]

Ken wrote:

“No republican worried about where the money was going until it looked like the American worker might get a little.”

I agree that if the current “stimulus” is passed, then the American worker might get a little of it.

It is also increasingly evident that the “stimulus” is not a stimulus, but is merely a tranfer payment

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfer_payment

with earmarks

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earmark_(politics).

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[JoB]

ScottB..

Here we are again on the rhetoric train…

do you read Moody’s investor service?

It’s apparent that the republican leadership doesn’t… or maybe they just don’t believe anything they don’t want to hear…

catlbob did a great job of detailing their report on stimulus efforts in post #9.

If you did.. you would know that some of those entitlement programs that you object to the most are the most effective at actually stimulating the economy.. that is.. compelling people to spend on goods and services.

i know it’s going to be hard.. but our government is once again actually looking for evidence based decisions ..

that is when they aren’t busy pandering to republicans …

who are too busy making their point to actually contribute anything to the process.

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[jamminj]

“If they really want to stimulate the private sector, drop the corporate tax rate. I believe ours is one of the highest in the world at around 35%.”

.

There is a difference in ‘tax rate’ and what corporations are actually paying. If ANY company is paying 35% or anything near that amount, you need to fire your accountant. No one is paying 35% and staying in business long.

Besides, about 2/3 of US corporations pays $0 in corporate taxes.

.

And if you are to use examples of other countries… many have ‘socialistic’ governments, most have universal health care systems… yet we never hear the right tout those benefits.

.

some short read links:

.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2009_01/016642.php

.

http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2008/09/29/irish-tax/

.

“rather than “create jobs,” corporations retained their extra profits, invested little in new commercial structures such as factories and office buildings, bought back their own stock, and “increased dividends rather than expand capacity.”

.

the last thing we need right now is more corporate tax breaks.

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[Traci]

I don’t understand this stuff, so I’m mailing my dad this link (he’s in Texas) so he’ll explain it to me.

I mean….I understand the stimulus in theory but not practically. That probably makes no sense, I’ll get back to you after talking to the dad.

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[Anonymous]

Traci,

If you are in the Seattle area, I suggest you listen to radio AM770 occasionally.

Rush Limbaugh (9:00am -12:00noon) is funny and smart.

I like Michael Medved (12:00 noon – 3:00pm), especially for his support of Israel, and he is extremely intelligent. I can’t get behind his belief in Bigfoot, but maybe he is like Agent Mulder in the X-Files. His “Conspiracy Day” shows when he takes calls from whackos on days with a full moon are very amusing.

I like David Boze (3:00pm – 6:00pm) because his show emphasizes local politics.

Michael Savage (6:00pm -9:00pm) is more extreme.

The guy in the morning before Rush Limbaugh (something Beck?) is iffy.

If you are curious about what the big deal is regarding “right-wing-talk radio,” then listen to Rush Limbaugh. Many liberals listen to his show, too.

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[Author]

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