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October 23, 2009 at 12:12 am #592762
luckymom30ParticipantPlease share your thoughts.
October 23, 2009 at 4:50 am #680617
JoBParticipantit means we aren’t all the same.
sometimes that difference is visible.. as in appearance or language or cultural differences.
sometimes that difference is in abilities… as in visible disabilities..
sometimes that difference is in economic circumstances…
But sometimes that difference is invisible…
No matter how many ways we are different.. there are more ways that we are the same.
Most days we would all do better to remember that.
October 23, 2009 at 5:13 am #680618
oldgrayboarderParticipantMichael Caine, playing Nigel Powers, summed it up best:
“There’s only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people’s cultures…and the Dutch.”
October 23, 2009 at 9:58 am #680619
JanSParticipantOGB…great quote :)
October 23, 2009 at 7:20 pm #680620
luckymom30ParticipantOk, here is the reason for my posting, I want to know why is it that everyone of different cultures, religions, beliefs can not celebrate their own traditions in their own ways without fear of revenge, hate crimes, etc… I am talking about Christmas trees in public places, menorahs, etc… being displayed and celebrated by each and every select group of people who hold those beliefs. Now this attitude of putting everything that is considered Christian, even Halloween is being banned from schools, and other public places. Why? I worked for years at the City of Seattle and time after time was reminded to only say Happy Holidays and not Merry Christmas, I was told to remove all Christian decorations at my own cubicle or face being fired. That is discrimination, maybe reverse discrimination but still discrimination. All the while employees from other cultures were encouraged to celebrate their traditions and holidays freely. I am very sad that this attitude has reached my 9 year old daughter and she is now being told to refrain from displaying or even wearing certain clothing that dispicts any Christian views.
October 23, 2009 at 7:33 pm #680621
maplesyrupParticipantHappy Festivus!
October 23, 2009 at 7:48 pm #680622
LaconiqueMemberBut Halloween is my favorite Christian holiday!!
October 23, 2009 at 8:33 pm #680623
luckymom30ParticipantI just think that whatever religion you follow, whatever your beliefs you should be allowed to celebrate, period.
October 23, 2009 at 8:35 pm #680624
luckymom30ParticipantYeah, istn’t that stupid that her school has made a big deal out of the kids not wearing Halloween costumes or bringing anything related to Halloween to school or face being removed. Apparently there are kids that ae not allowed to celebrate Halloween and their parents have asked them to be removed doing any Halloween celebration. As for the Christmas Trees and Menorahs I really don’t care if everyone of evry religion and culture has decorations depicting their beliefs, so it be!
October 23, 2009 at 8:37 pm #680625
JoBParticipantSo celebrate…
October 23, 2009 at 8:48 pm #680626
herongrrrlParticipantDiscrimination is not the same as consideration. On public property, consideration for all faiths and traditions means that none may display their symbols/decorations or else you have to display them all–remember the craziness at the state capitol building last year? And I for one am very happy to have strangers wish me “Happy Holidays” instead of naming a specific holiday. You can’t tell by looking at me what my religion is, so please don’t assume you know what I’m going to celebrate. It’s part of that “invisible” diversity JoB mentions, and, I would argue, common courtesy in a diverse community.
As for your daughter’s situation, though, I don’t believe it is legal for a public school to tell her she can’t wear religious symbols or clothing unless there is something specific in the dress code about that. For example, they can’t tell her she can’t wear a cross (or whatever other symbol), but if she’s wearing a t-shirt with a really gory looking bloody crucifiction scene on it that may be seen as inappropriate because it is too graphic, not because it is religious. If she has been told specifically not to wear her own religious symbols by the school, it sounds like time to call the ACLU and see what they suggest.
And about Halloween stuff at school being changed to “Harvest Celebrations” or whatever, my understanding is that this is because Halloween IS a religious holiday for some groups, and as such has no place in public schools…unless we want to have each student celebrate every possible religious holiday at school, which leaves very little time to teach them how to pass the standardized tests…. ;)
October 23, 2009 at 8:49 pm #680627
KBearParticipantCan’t the public schools figure out how to educate kids without having Christmas (oops–“Holiday”) trees and Halloween parties? It’s not like the kids can’t get plenty of exposure to these things outside of school. It seems like it also should be possible to teach kids ABOUT different cultures and religions without attempting to “celebrate” them.
October 23, 2009 at 9:25 pm #680628
JanSParticipantPeople are able to celebrate whatever they want…just not in my space. And I promise that I won’t celebrate what I want to in your space. I agree with not “celebrating” anything in schools, since there simply wouldn’t be enough time for anything else.
So tell us specifically what your daughter was denied?
October 23, 2009 at 11:45 pm #680629
datamuseParticipantI should point out that while yes, October 31st (or thereabouts) happens to be a religious celebration for some, and there’s some overlap between those observances and Halloween, costumes and trick or treating have about as much to do with it as evergreen and twinkly lights have to do with the Christian celebration of Christmas.
I dunno. My place of work puts up Halloween decorations and a Christmas tree, and it’s a religious (Christian) institution.
Personally, I think celebrations are a great learning activity, certainly much more engaging and interesting than a lecture. I had a history teacher in high school who included a tea ceremony in a lesson about Zen Buddhism. I don’t recall that anyone converted as a result.
October 24, 2009 at 12:09 am #680630
luckymom30ParticipantAt the schools, and many other public places like the Seattle Center, we learn about different cultures so why not include Christianity or at least some symbolism of it. Diversity should be for everyone.
October 24, 2009 at 12:15 am #680631
JanSParticipantculture and religion are two diverse things. There can be more than one religion in one culture.
What was your daughter denied? Or, what specifically would you like to have happen in her school? I’m still trying to understand that.
October 24, 2009 at 1:34 am #680632
luckymom30ParticipantMy daughter was told that she could not wear anything that depicted Halloween and that warning was also for anyother holidays like Christmas, but what really gets our family is that the school has diversity days to celebrate the differences and the kids learn about other cultures but nothing is said or done about being Christian. What I would like to happen at her school is to include our faith and or culture and not exclude us just because we are not from a country outside of the United States. I just don’t see why they make these exclusions and also at the same time make such a deal in celebrating families from outside the U.S.
October 24, 2009 at 3:26 am #680633
JoBParticipantluckymon30..
i am guessing your kids don’t need to be taught about Christian culture.
I am also guessing that most of the kids in the school don’t need to be taught about Christian culture.
why would we teach it in school when it surrounds us every day?
The same can’t be said for the other cultures taught to children who don’t experience them as part of their everyday life.
The concept is to teach kids that different is ok.
That’s diversity.
October 24, 2009 at 3:39 am #680634
DBurnsParticipantI’m personally sad that kids can’t celebrate holidays in elementary school anymore. Some of my favorite memories and art projects come from my kids’ classroom celebrations. I guess I understand it, but it just seems that these particular holidays have become so commercial, not Christian, and that kids understand that.
I think the idea of celebrating other cultures is absolutely important, I just think that it is also part of American culture to celebrate holidays! This year my daughter started high school at Kennedy and her favorite thing right now is her Choir class where they are singing Christmas Carols! She never got to do this in public elementary/middle school (understably) and she’s really happy about it!
October 24, 2009 at 3:44 am #680635
SpeakLoudMemberAh poor white christian children…how hard that must be for you.
Total assumption of course that you are white but then again you are totally assuming ‘we’ are ‘celebrating’ these holidays-it’s merely a mention-one moment of recognition of excistance! Go to church to get your Christian fill. And what exactly is it that you wear for Christmas? I’m pretty sure school is closed for Christmas so is it really an issue?
October 24, 2009 at 5:10 am #680636
DBurnsParticipantCelebrating diversity also includes lessons about ignorance. Reminders are valueable.
By the way, my kids are not white.
October 24, 2009 at 7:24 am #680637
HMC RichParticipantLabels are interesting aren’t they. My son was born in Asia in the Far East. He would be considered Caucasian by forms we need to fill out but he truly is Asian (geographically). Genetically he is northern european but due to Soviet assimilation and eradication of the local population his genetics are European based.
The American culture celebrates a variety of holidays and as we become more diverse I suspect we will be celebrating more and different holidays. But to deny what our history has been and to try and eradicate or revise it from memory is not healthy. Acceptance is good. Diversity is good to a point. Assimilation is good to a point.
Seattle public schools are secular institutions. We need to hear from parents if they go to far. Honestly, most of the educators that I have met really want what is best for the kids.
Demographics change. As our hispanic and latino population grows I see numerous changes and growth of our culture. I find it positive that slowly I am learning more Spanish. I also wish I could speak Korean. But to deny how we got here is also wrong.
Community standards and certain views are changing and public schools are not going to be involved in certain holidays or celebrations. But there will always be a few who may push certain agendas, whether beneficial or detrimental, to our children.
The dilemma for parents is how do you want your children educated? What will you accept as a parent from the government or private schools.
Luckymom30 I empathize with your stance. Hopefully, the school system will educate your kids properly and you will educate them about certain social issues from our educational institutions. Good Luck.
October 24, 2009 at 8:40 am #680638
JanSParticipantLuckymom…I’m not sure what your daughter wanted to wear to school. If it was a sweatshirt with a pumpkin on it, go ahead. If the school/teacher, etc. doesn’t want ghosties and goblins and witches and skeletons and stuff, then let her wear those things at home. Sometimes you can’t wear what you want to work, as an adult, either. If you want her to know about a “christian” holiday/culture, here again is an opportunity to teach at home.
Teaching about the Egyptian culture, the Mexican culture, the Japanese culture is NOT about teaching the various religions…it’s not teaching Islam, or Buddhism, or Catholicism…it’s teaching how they live, how they dress, what they wear, their agribusiness, their industrial businesses, etc.. And it might include a study of “the country has one main religion – catholic” , or whatever it may be. I’m pretty sure that the public school doesn’t go in depth about what Catholicism, or Buddhism is, what the beliefs and traditions are. They don’t send a memo home to parents that “this week we will be celebrating Yom Kippur”, etc. You get my drift.
Your religion can be taught, should be taught, in your home, in your church, whatever it is you believe in. It’s a great opportunity for you to teach, carry on your own family traditions and beliefs. Don’t leave that up to someone else who just makes it a “lesson plan”, and may not teach exactly what you want your child to know about what you believe in.
October 24, 2009 at 8:56 am #680639
bluebirdMemberExactly JanS. And American “culture” is taught every day. We call the course History.
October 24, 2009 at 4:48 pm #680640 -
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