Home › Forums › Open Discussion › what couples will make $50,000 or more in retirement
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May 20, 2014 at 12:52 am #611391
retired60ParticipantThe numbers for married couples are getting smaller by the month, as to who will make $50,000 > $100,000 annually in retirement. The wealthy in this country are making sure it stays that way.
As long as the middle class and poor in this country think it’s alright for the well off and wealthy to continue taking wages and benefits away from us … we will continue to suffer, and so will our children.
The election of our first Black President in this country has caused many to hate everything that is Gov. accept for Medicare and Social Security benefits …. wait a minute … This is Big Gov. … So what is the one factor that is causing us to self Destruct ???? A Black President. This one factor has caused many Americans to hate Gov. at any cost ..even when it harms their own families.
May 20, 2014 at 1:00 am #808460
retired60ParticipantJob Pensions were the way to a decent Retirement for most hard working Americans. When Companies saw that more profits were going to those that offered little or no pensions …
The wealthy along w the Gov., mostly Republicans … decided to dismantle the Unions and shortly afterwards attack the benefits and wages of the Private sector.
We never saw it coming … and here we are ..STRUGGLING to get by.
May 20, 2014 at 1:05 am #808461
clark5080ParticipantYou think the Unions are managing our retirements well. Certainly not mine I fully expect to get back very little of what I have put in. My 401k is in much better condition than my union retirement funds. Unions have shot themselves in the foot for the most part
May 20, 2014 at 2:04 am #808462
SmittyParticipantretired60 said: “A Black President. This one factor has caused many Americans to hate Gov. at any cost “
For the record, I’ve “disliked” (big) government long before Obama was community organizing…..
Oh, and he’s bi-racial.
May 20, 2014 at 3:25 am #808463
Blackcat119ParticipantInteresting that your issues are with our president and government – I’m not sure why race has anything to do with it. Your ignorance overshadows any well thought out or valid point you might have been able to make.
I hope I’ve been sucked into someone trolling because this makes me sad.
May 20, 2014 at 4:58 am #808464
trickycooljParticipantThe current projection for my 401k will be between 50-90k per year when I plan on retiring, plus social security if the greedy boomers don’t take all of what I put in. But I’m not counting on it. I’m not even putting that high of a contribution in per paycheck. I don’t know where this 401k’s are evil stigma came from.
May 20, 2014 at 8:10 am #808465
JoBParticipanttrickycoolj
“greedy boomers”
are you of the mistaken opinion that boomers didn’t contribute to social security? think again.
May 20, 2014 at 2:15 pm #808466
wakefloodParticipanttrickycool, 401k’s aren’t evil but they’re not a good deal for the vast majority, either.
http://www.salon.com/2013/08/06/big_finance_lied_401ks_will_not_save_aging_americans_partner/
And you might not want to count your chicken fingers just yet. I’m not yet in my mid 50’s and I’ve had over six figures evaporate almost overnight TWICE with mine. And I remember fellow workers walking around with chest pumped out flashing their portfolio values during one run up claiming that we’d broken the business cycle.
The game is rigged for a precious few, the rest of us are sheep for sheering and we will get periodic haircuts whether we like our long hair or not. Just sayin’…
May 20, 2014 at 2:32 pm #808467
JoBParticipantand there’s the rub…
we can’t count on what we have
not even if it is in cash
“boomers” have watched the benefits of a lifetime of very hard work evaporate before their eyes
none of us feels secure right now
May 20, 2014 at 6:20 pm #808468
skeeterParticipant“The game is rigged for a precious few, the rest of us are sheep for sheering” To keep things interesting I’m going to disagree with Wake on this one. Show me one – and I mean ONE person who has (1) consistently paid into social security and (2) consistently saved 20% of her income and is now not comfortably retired or on a path to a comfortable retirement.
The game is rigged, Wakeflood, but it’s not rigged for a precious few. It’s rigged for anyone who is (1) born in the U.S. to competent parents and (2) does not suffer from a debilitating illness or injury for an extended period and (3) has the means and discipline to save a portion of her earnings and invest it in equities over the long haul.
May 20, 2014 at 7:32 pm #808469
wakefloodParticipantSkeets, you half made my argument for me! Look at the list of prequals you have. OK, so I’m guessing that rules out – and #3 takes a BIG bite – but that’s still some significant portion the population. You’ve read that wages have been stagnant for almost a generation, right? How many of the remaining after your prequals can tuck away 20% of after tax/healthcare/living costs? 10%? 20%?, 30%?
Any way you slice it, that’s a minority of Americans.
Now, let’s look at what has happened to some portion of those lucky few. Remember the thousands of ENRON employees forced to invest much of their retirement in Enron stock? Remember the retirements that vanished? That’s not common, but it ain’t rare, either.
I gotta’ run but we can discuss what is meant by “precious few” some more later.
May 20, 2014 at 8:01 pm #808470
amaliaParticipantCurious where “competent parents” come in. Are you talking about inheritances? I have no inheritance and I’m not sure whether my parents were “competent” by your definition (they didn’t pay for college or grad school, nor encourage me to go to either), yet I’ve done very well (a least solidly middle class and set to retire early). So… what do “competent parents” have to do with it?
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Retired – do you have a problem with a black president for some reason? If so, in my book you’re just a lousy racist dinosaur (thankfully dying out) and not worth my breath.
May 20, 2014 at 8:03 pm #808471
amaliaParticipantPS He’s mixed race. Do you know what that is?
May 20, 2014 at 8:09 pm #808472
JoBParticipantamalia.. i wish racists were a dying breed
May 20, 2014 at 8:38 pm #808473
skeeterParticipantMy definition of a “competent parent” means a parent who provides a child with the necessary tools to achieve, learn, and grow. For example, a parent who sends a child to school hungry every day is not competent. A parent who lets a child watch television 9 hours a day is not competent. On the other hand, a parent who helps a child with homework is competent. A parent who teaches a child to take responsibilities for her choices is competent. Etc, etc. etc. Wealth and inheritance would not be relevant in my definition of parental competency.
Amalia, to answer your question in #12, “what do ‘competent parents’ have to do with it?” it is my observation that children with competent parents are better able to navigate the challenges of life than children with incompetent parents. But of course there are many exceptions.
May 20, 2014 at 8:53 pm #808474
skeeterParticipant“I gotta’ run but we can discuss what is meant by “precious few” some more later.”
I would very much enjoy that conversation Wakeflood. I’ve always enjoyed your perspective.
Let’s get things off to a start. Would you say that an individual who purchases an iPhone and data/minute plan for about $90-$110 per month is a member of the “precious few?” Or would you say that a typical middle-class person can afford this luxury?
Here’s where I’m going with this. I’m convinced that re-prioritizing spending habits can greatly affect how much an individual is able to save. This holds true for people earning $11 an hour and people earning $100 per hour.
May 20, 2014 at 9:53 pm #808475
wakefloodParticipantSkeets, this is tangentially off topic and I’m still super busy but just wanted to throw this over the fence to support my notion that the game is rigged for some.
Derivatives trading is STILL regulated less than motorcycle helmets – along with the fact that Glass/Steagal hasn’t been reinstated means that the avg. Joe/Jane are at the mercy of a system that is geared to use us as a buffer for any pain that might ensue from their shenanigans.
Want proof? Read a short article about Credit Suisse pleading guilty to helping rich bastards commit tax fraud. In my father’s era – hell, even in the 1980’s! this would have rocked their financial foundation – potentially irreparably. Their stock ROSE on the announcement.
Hmmm…wonder if Fidelity or Schwab can hook me up on that program?
May 20, 2014 at 9:54 pm #808476
wakefloodParticipantAnd let’s not forget LIBOR. How many TRILLIONS of dollars of value sucked from the populace’s coffers on that one??
Nah, the game ain’t rigged.
May 20, 2014 at 11:06 pm #808477
wakefloodParticipantAnd Skeets, you know I get that personal responsibility plays a role – and sometimes a substantial one – in making the odds more favorable. Choices matter. Well, unless you’re in the investment class, where you have to be an idiot to screw it up.
But you have to admit that the game is far harder to win than it used to be. So many factors are in play now that can make a bad roll of the dice the difference between living a decent retirement and scraping by…or worse.
And before you say it, let me posit that at least SOME of the “discretionary” expenditures now are less discretionary than they used to be. Any decent professional career path requires that you look and act competent with technology. You’d better have a decent mobile and laptop, etc. Looking like you’re scraping by is a sure way to have employers wonder if you’ve got what it takes.
May 20, 2014 at 11:24 pm #808478
wakefloodParticipantHere’s another real world example.
I’ve got a college buddy. Went to law school on partial hardship but it only covered a fraction of his costs. Got out, passed the bar and hung his shingle. HATED it. Loved the law, hated what it took to make it as a lawyer. The self-promotion, the sleaze factor, whatever you want to call it, he decided to ditch it and follow another, less highly-compensated career. He’s happier by a mile and he’s had to scale back to pay his modest student loans, etc. He’ll work until he drops or he’ll live a frugal existence where he hopes he doesn’t get some long term sickness.
Transcribe that scenario to now? Your student debt will force you to stick it out in a job you hate – which will likely impact your success in said career – and you MIGHT end up in a better place financially. You know, if you get lucky enough to play the game and pay off your loans and don’t have a heart attack at 40 trying to outwork your peers in an effort to not get overlooked at promotion time.
Choices matter. And they’re ever increasingly, Hobson’s choices.
May 21, 2014 at 7:50 am #808479
justadumbguyParticipantHey Skeeter,
I’ve been putting 15% in the 401k for near 30 years. (to be honest it is 29 years and 3 months) Additionally, I’ve worked every day since I was 19 for which I’m very grateful, and yet,I’m terrified about how retirement will be for me.
Why? well because I’m 54 and getting through the next 16 years while keeping a job is going to be be tricky. Companies don’t want people like me … older, got some health issues, know when I’m being F’d with, they’d prefer young healthy hard chargers willing to work 70 hours a week, which to be clear, I was at one time. Now though, I know better ;-)That makes me expendable.
May 21, 2014 at 1:40 pm #808480
JoBParticipantthat healthy 401K assumes that you won’t be counting on it for retirement right after the next “downturn” wipes out it’s healthy balance…
May 21, 2014 at 3:29 pm #808481
wakefloodParticipantJustaguy, I feel you.
Ever see the new HBO series Silicon Valley? Pretty funny! And pretty real. Lots of companies try to model themselves after these places now. Nobody really wants people who just do a good job. We’re all supposed to be part of the cult of fill-in-the-blank company. And to call them on it means you’re not “of the body” and need to be excised at the earliest opportunity.
Pretty soon a black turtleneck, a pair of wireframes, and a chin in your hands pensive look whenever possible will be the only way a middle aged man will hang in the tech world. ;-)
May 21, 2014 at 4:21 pm #808482
skeeterParticipantOh crud. I didn’t figure the cult employer into my retirement plans. Nobody is gonna want Skeeter when I’m in my mid-fifties. Any chance they’ll lower the social security collection age from 62 to 55???
May 21, 2014 at 4:29 pm #808483
wakefloodParticipantHa! Skeets, you chose wisely. Everybody ALWAYS needs accountants. It’s one profession where “hipness” isn’t considered a pre-req. :-)
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