welfare

[miws]

Assumptions made by JV:

1. That funkietoo is a liar.

2. That funkietoo, who works a full time job, and in off-time volunteers extensively, in our community, to make it better, has the ability to respond on this Forum, in the relatively short amount of time, that JV deems to be adequate.

Mike

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[JV]

MIWS, maybe you’d like to step in and defend her ridiculous statement about me wanting poor people to give up their kids to rich people. Since I didn’t say it, she should just say that she misspoke and we can move on.

We can disagree on this blog, but making up lies and attributing them to other people is beneath the WSB.

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[funkietoo]

Thank you Mike.

JV…Your posts gave the definite impression that poor peoples should give up their babies. Now that you have clarified that isn’t the only option you believe in, we can move on.

No need to defend. I am not a liar, nor are my statements ridiculous. As you said, we can disagree. It appears that is the situation here, so I agree to disagree with you.

What is beneath the WSB are people who personally attack/insult others.

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[westcoastdeb]

@HMC Rich – I am taking a huge deep breath before I reply to your comment.

Breath over.

You hate open adoption, eh? Through foster care, I can understand where you are coming from. I’m not sure if this thread was intended to discuss domestic infant adoption or foster adoption. I will just say that study after study shows incredible benefit to a child for knowing their family of origin if it is safe and possible.

Secondly, you are adopting kids like beers? Well ok then.

Thirdly, I am just going to decide that I took your post all kinds of wrong, but I couldn’t let it just sit there.

Debbie

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[westcoastdeb]

@JoB – there aren’t words to express all of the things I want to say to you. First, I’m sorry that you went through that. Secondly, I have found an awesome support group if you would be interested. Thirdly, well, I will just say that there are tears in my eyes for you right now. Thank you.

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[JV]

If that’s how it has to be…

Funkietoo, this quote from one of your previous posts gives the impression that you want all poor people to get abortions.

Please explain why you don’t think poor people’s fetuses should be be born.

Where are these people that want all fetuses born? Shouldn’t they be supporting couples/single mothers that choose to have the baby and not get an abortion?

(you may notice that I used your exact words to back up my assertion…see how that works?)

Does that remind anybody of the old, “when did you stop beating your wife?” question. Not a very good way to have a discussion, is it?

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[anonyme]

jv, your interpretation of funkietoo’s quote is so bizarre it not only defies imagination, it demands medication. There is absolutely nothing at all in your “assertion” that is backed up by any “exact words” but the ones in your own wildly off-target accusations.

Are you going to admit that you misspoke?

And no, this is not a very good way to have a discussion. Others on this blog have a right to opinions that differ from yours without being on the receiving end of your vitriolic spew. Some snark and sarcasm are to be expected in any public debate, and can even add a little snappy wit to the dialogue. Your attacks on other WSBloggers are not only hateful – they’re inaccurate.

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[JoB]

westcoastdeb..

i was recently able to tell my son that it broke my heart when i gave him up and healed it when he found me. That pretty much sums it up.

i am glad there are now support groups for women who give up children for adoption. Those of us brave enough to tell our stories somehow found one another when i was young… that helped a lot.

there are still women i know who are nearing death and have given up all hope of ever even knowing if their child lives… my heart breaks for them.

i have been very very lucky.

it sounds as though you are too.

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[HMC Rich]

WestcoastDeb. I think you misunderstand the essence of a couple of my thoughts. That is OK.

It is true I am not a fan of our domestic open adoptions. Some work out just fine. But allow me to expand my thoughts.

I would, if I could, be very strict in the area of birth parent visitation with people who have substance abuse problems or violence issues. I have seen too many kids get so mixed up when the state or court allows visitation from screwed up people who happen to be the birth mother or father. It is unfair to the adoptive family and puts extra stress on that family and the kids quite often backslide.

Foster parenting has different dynamics that I certainly do not have enough expertise in, yet.

But I certainly know in depth many, but not all, aspects of adoption. I still have much more to learn. There are soooo many variables.

Sorry if you didn’t see the humor in the domestic vs import. Not every sentence has to be serious, does it? Our overseas adoption was expensive with a capital E. But worth every penny, heartache, and happiness that came with the adoption and the tremendous growth our son and our family has achieved.

Finally, we don’t have to agree. But, I do think most of us want what is best for the children.

For those people who gave up children for adoption, I have the highest admiration for them. They had to make a choice and a sacrifice that has lasting implications. I am the fortunate recipient of someone who made that choice. I am lucky and feel for the people who always wonder.

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[JV]

Annoyme:

Yes I intentionally “misspoke” to illustrate the absurdity of flinging mud just to fling mud. We can all do it, but it gets us nowhere.

Yes my comments usually have a higher level of sarcasm and snark than most on this blog (or lower level, depending on how you look at it) but I would never just smear a fellow blogger’s name by attributing something terrible just because we disagree.

We hold each others feet to the fire here, and keep each other honest, which is why it’s particularly disappointing that several people backed up funkie’s assertion instead of saying, “you know, I re-read the whole thread, and he doesn’t say anything like that anywhere.”

Instead it just goes tribal, and you back up your friends even when you know they are wrong.

Again, not a very good way to have a discussion.

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[Betty T]

Please don’t tell me I don’t know—-! I know very well about abortions and adoptions within my family. No, not myself, but very close to me. I have a 53 yr.old grandma(single) raising her 4 yr old twin granddaughters. She works full time and volunteers at Nickelsville. NO its not easy for her and yes there are some behavior problems. She took them rather than letting them go to Foster Care. They do know and see their mother but a lot they don’t understand. I won’t go on stating family business, but-YES I do know.

Many years ago I knew a father who didn’t mind his daughter getting pregnant because he’d get more money. His actual words. Disgusting! He had his own family on Welfare already. That’s the sort of people that caused the 5 yr limit .

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[miws]

Very well put, Betty.

Betty and her daughter are among the most involved NV supporters/donors, just like JoB and others.

Betty’s daughter also accomplishes everything while working a full time job, working O/T when needed, and dealing with her own chronic health issues.

Mike

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[JoB]

JV

if you choose to be snarky

you don’t get to become indignant when people mistake your snark for your opinion and take you to task for it.

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[miws]

….and keep each other honest….

What’s so “honest” about intentionally “misspeaking”?

So many, if not most of your posts on various threads are so heavily loaded in condescension—-waayyyyy beyond snark, and sarcasm.

It’s only natural, after awhile, that those of us that regularly read your posts, might react in a knee-jerk, defensive manner, especially when our friends are being continually insulted, and belittled.

Many of us have not only bonded online here, over the last four or five years, but have done so in real life as well.

We, fully realizing each other is an adult, and fully capable of standing up for themselves, will still speak out against the insults, because it offends us that our friends are being treated in such a childish, and ignorant manner.

We also do the same for the WSB Editor, when somebody makes a totally unfounded, bogus claim, such as regarding WSB’s ethics, when that claim is nowhere near accurate, nor is it constructive criticism.

I personally, don’t have the patience do try to decipher what someone is intending to say, when they present it in an intentionally deceptive manner.

Mike

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[2 Much Whine]

It’s good to have hooper back to stir the pot now and then. I love how he throws a little bomb out there and then steps back to watch the sparks fly. It’s clear that many people are very passionate about this subject. One thing that might nudge me in one direction or another is knowing what is meant by “troubled.” Apparently both the mom and dad-to-be are “troubled.” Being a pregnant teen can be troubling enough but are there other problems they face that indicate that they continue to make poor life choices? Dropped out of school? On drugs or alcohol? Or are there other, less controllable issues like mental or physical illness or homelessness that could impact the quality of life for the child?

On another note, Mike is one of the gentlest souls I know. To be gettin’ a deserved smackdown from Mike is certainly not something I aspire to. It’s fun to be a little snarky now and then – most of us are guilty of it on some level but I think the snarky bar might need to be lowered a little to keep the blog civil. I know some people have been turned off by the occasional mean comments and I know there are times I’ve told myself to step away from the blog and calm down. I’m not telling anyone what to do but suggesting there might be a way to make your day go a little better.

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[miws]

Thanks for the kind words, 2MW, and back atcha!

I keep telling myself to stay away from these threads, lest I go Cow on somebody’s arse…

Mike

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[JV]

Sorry for upsetting the tribal group-think. I should try to limit my comments to only agreeing with everything people say.

And I’ll try not to reply when somebody completely makes up sh!t about me.

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[miws]

Typical.

Continually post in a holier-than-thou insulting manner, then get all hurt when called out on it….

Mike

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[Betty T]

Thanks Mike, for your comments and support. Its too bad this had to happen. Like I say in this world, country, everyone doesn’t have to agree or have the same opinions. I answered her email with my feelings about that, not being argumentive or derogatory. But its true we have to step away from disagreements some times. It happens where I live sometimes. As I said in another thread, we donors are proud of us. Not many of us know the baggage others carry, we just do the best we can to help others when we can. Someone can refer to us as “bragging” but its part of our lives and we talk about it. You yourself are not bragging when you tell us what’s happening with you because we want to know & care. It’s a different world of Nickelsville and Homelessness and many I know are so naiive about it.

Thaks again Mike for your support.

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[miws]

It’s support that’s well deserved, Betty.

None of the folks that help out NV are independently wealthy. Some are on very tight budgets themselves, but help out in some way.

Several have chronic health issues of their own, and some of those health issues are painful and/or debilitating.

Yet they continue to selflessly give much of their own time, to help out.

When anyone posts here on WSB, about what they, or anyone else is doing for NV, they’re not bragging.

They are letting the community know, (or reminding the community) of what NV needs, to survive…

Mike

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[JV]

Mike, I’m not upset, I’m a big boy, and I’m happy to have a debate. I just don’t tolerate lies being said about me. Nor would you.

I’m still waiting for a fair-minded reader, (DBP maybe) to read this entire thread and help us find where funkietoo got the idea that I want poor people to give their babies to rich people. It doesn’t exist, but many people have doubled-down, and doubled-down again on that lie. If it’s there, then show me.

(I’ve read it multiple times, and I think the thread went sideways when I used the hateful word “ridiculous” to describe somebody’s post.)

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[miws]

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[Cait]

*applause for Mike*

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[JV]

It seems that disagreeing with Mike is kind of “off limits” on this blog, and obviously funkietoo can’t back up her lie, so there’s not much else to discuss on the topic.

The only way to close out this high level conversation is for somebody to cut and paste a picture of something adorable! Take it away Mike!

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[Betty T]

Thanks Mike.

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