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June 25, 2012 at 6:15 pm #603729
hooper1961Memberi see in the seattle times the other day a troubled teenager is pregnant and she and her troubled boyfriend plan on having the kid.
i say that ZERO welfare payments should be provided to this couple. if they do not have the resources to bring a child into the world they should give up the kid for adoption. there are many couples with resources willing and able to adopt.
it is time to stop the cycle of welfare dependency!
June 25, 2012 at 6:24 pm #761814
westcoastdebParticipantI am a birthmother who placed her child into an adoption 5 years ago. I don’t think, under any circumstances, that we should go back to the era of babysnatching, of forcing a woman to place her child because society thinks she would not be a fit parent.
I am all for foster care when needed, for protecting the safety of a child. Yes, this couple should maybe get some training in how to stretch what they do have.
It’s not my business, nor is it yours, to decide who is worthy of being a parent. I can tell you from experience age does not mean better. Being an adoptive parent doesn’t make you a good parent. Loving the child, being willing to change for the better for your child, commitment to that life makes a good parent.
I do not envy teen mothers, but they have the same rights as each of us does when it comes to our children.
*stepping off of soapbox*
Debbie
June 25, 2012 at 6:32 pm #761815
hooper1961Memberyou are correct they have rights; but as soon as they ask for taxpayer money that is when the taxpayers rights should be the priority.
June 25, 2012 at 6:40 pm #761816
westcoastdebParticipantWelcome to America, this is how it works. I pay into welfare, I have just as much right as you to determine where I want my money to go. Why do you think that placing this child will solve the troubled teen’s problems? I have seen it before, placing a child is a trauma and sometimes leads to more problems, especially in teens. What do you say to her pregnancy medical bills? To the fact that the adoptive couple may well need welfare in the future? I think you are stepping into a well you know little about.
I was raised by a mother who sometimes depended on welfare. Was she somehow less worthy of raising her children?
What you are suggesting is illegal. Forcing a woman, even coercing her (or in some places even the man) to place her baby for adoption crosses many legal lines.
Maybe you should be more concerned with welfare fraud, with child abuse, with something real. This kind of case is what welfare is for.
June 25, 2012 at 6:47 pm #761817
hooper1961Memberactually i disagree, if a person/couple choose to bring a person into this world they have the responsibility for the child and if they do not have the resources to raise the child then they should be required to give the child up for adoption.
welfare is to provide temporary assistance not to provide support for a private party decision to bring a child into this world
June 25, 2012 at 7:01 pm #761818
JVMemberWelfare is a safety net, not a lifestyle choice.
It’s there to temporarily help people who are down on their luck. Like westcoastdeb, I was raised by a single mother who utilized it briefly until she was able to get back on her feet. Key word; briefly.
Our system is now set up to reward a couple like this one as they keep having more and more kids.
There should be a dollar limit, or time limit or something, because a perpetual handout is bad for all parties involved.
June 25, 2012 at 7:05 pm #761819
hooper1961Memberjv i totally agree
June 25, 2012 at 7:06 pm #761820
JVMemberHooper1961, I agree with you on the welfare part, but not the other part.
America isn’t in the business of taking people’s kids or forced abortions…save that for China. If they are neglecting or abusing the child, that’s a different story.
We will give help, but at some point we have to draw the line.
June 25, 2012 at 7:13 pm #761821
westcoastdebParticipantI agree in that welfare should not be a forever choice. Who says this child will be raised on welfare? What other rules would you use to force adoption on someone? This stinks a lot of entitlement. If you aren’t in their situation, you have NO RIGHT to judge. I know myself adoptive couples who have used welfare as a tool in child raising.
In this state, a child can be removed from parental custody if that child is in danger. Short of that, parents have rights. That baby has a right to know (and be part of, really) it’s family of origin. Are you guys suggesting a world where there is a value put on a child,and if you don’t have that amount of money in your bank account, others get to make parental decisions for you? No thanks, I want no part of that world.
What is helpful to families like this is to know they have support – babysitters (while working), education, training.
Would we be jumping at a chance to help this family if they were in Nickelsville?
June 25, 2012 at 7:18 pm #761822
CrackerjackmanMemberI can see both sides of this debate.. I was on welfare. It had helped with me raising my son. I think that if this couple were to have other kids and stay on the system then that is another story. Yet to say they should give their kid up for adoption is total BS. I was 21 when my son was born. He was a opps baby. I received welfare for 2 yrs until My Social Security kicked in cause I am disabled. Does that make me a bad person? No, I was down on my luck like lots of other people in this world. And also there are limits on time and amounts a person receives. The times and amounts depends on what program a person is on. What chaffs my ass though are the people that are just breeding to get hand outs and making the people that really need the help look bad.
June 25, 2012 at 7:26 pm #761823
CrackerjackmanMemberAnd I agree with Westcoastdeb… What if this were a family in Nickelsville and and received welfare. Would we not help more if they needed it? Also welfare isnt about money. It has different sections like Westcoasteb said above… Job training, Helping with school, daycare, etc. I was receiving welfare benefits for the first year I was in college. Had i not been on welfare I would not have had a chance to go to school. There is something called Worker retraining while on welfare, also DVR (Division of Vocational Rehabilitation.) These two also help trying to find work or helping with the costs of school to help get you off of welfare. Not all people on welfare are on it for handouts.
June 25, 2012 at 7:31 pm #761824
dbseaMemberI’m leaning towards JV’s view on this one. If you go into this knowing you can’t support the child then for how long does society have to pay for you and that child? There should be limits to many such benefits however with evaluation and screening processes to protect the truly helpless. If you cannot support a child isn’t that where the state takes the child for its own good?
June 25, 2012 at 7:33 pm #761825
Ms. SparklesParticipantI can’t actually speak for Hooper, but what I thought when I read and agreed with his post is not that these teens shouldn’t be allowed to keep & raise their baby, but that if we didn’t have welfare, maybe they themselves wouldn’t even consider it.
I HATE the idea of children suffering for their parents bad decisions…but in this free society we are faced with either letting children suffer due to no fault of their own, or subsidizing those parents’ poor decisions. For me the question is about the lesser of 2 evils.
Welfare should never be part of the plan to “start” a family!
June 25, 2012 at 7:36 pm #761826
westcoastdebParticipantI agree wholeheartedly that welfare should not be a forever option – I do not agree that the child should be taken from it’s parents because they will be using welfare at this time. Instead, the resources to help people get off of welfare should be better enforced.
June 25, 2012 at 7:38 pm #761827
westcoastdebParticipantI doubt this child was planned – I doubt welfare was the plan. These kids have found themselves in a bad place. I agree that adoption should be thought of, may be the best option for all involved (as it was for me) but it’s the forced part that gets under my skin.
June 25, 2012 at 7:45 pm #761828
CrackerjackmanMemberI agree that welfare should never be a plan to “start” a family. If one can not support a child the state will not take the child for the childs own good unless there are no other viable options (no next of kin to try and support it, Etc.) I also agree that the resources need to be better enforced. I also think that there should be a stricter set of screening to weed out those that are trying to work the system as well as commit fraud for that person to be “Better” off…
June 25, 2012 at 7:49 pm #761829
CrackerjackmanMemberWhat I do not agree with is the issue of trying to force someone to give their child up for adoption due to whatever the circumstances may be. I believe that is a decision that is solely for the parents to make. Yet there will always be someone that will judge others regardless if they were teenagers or a couple that is older for having a child planned or not for having to be on welfare.
June 25, 2012 at 7:54 pm #761830
miwsParticipantJune 25, 2012 at 8:19 pm #761831
anonymeParticipantIn the vast majority of cases, teenagers are not equipped on ANY level to be parents. While the children of these children ALWAYS suffer for these “decisions”, the parents will be damaged as well. Being on welfare will not allow for any kind of growth, whether it be emotional, educational, or financial. Welfare is not a support system; it’s a few bucks toward subsistence living that is difficult or impossible to recover from, or rise above. Even during better times, resources for monitoring these situations has been minimal – especially counseling and child protective services.
I’m a firm believer in children’s rights above those of parents who have already proven themselves incapable of the kind of responsible behavior required to be a parent. A much better use of funds would be easy access to birth control and sex education.
June 25, 2012 at 9:34 pm #761832
funkietooParticipantI’m sure I’m about to stir the pot, but to even suggest taking people’s children from them just because they don’t have money/are on public assistance, is outrageous, cruel and illegal. Some of the most well-mannered children I have met are growing up in homes that rely on public assistance.
Perhaps if we, (society), placed more value on prevention and education, this conversation wouldn’t even be happening.
1. Affordable, easily accessible birth control options (free birth control for those with limited income/teenagers & young adults?).
2. Provide education in all of our schools, starting at the elementary level, (age appropriate of course). Talk about choices. What it means to be a parent. The responsibility of raising a child. The cost. The lifestyle change.
3. Fully fund public health/family planning services.
4. Family counseling and intervention by schools. Many teen and young adult pregnancies can be directly tied to problems at home.
There are too many people that want to make birth control,sex education and family planning more difficult to ascertain–and they have been quite successful in recent years. Part of the result of their success are unplanned pregnancies.
Many of these same people are often anti-abortion. Where are these people that want all fetuses born? Shouldn’t they be supporting couples/single mothers that choose to have the baby and not get an abortion? Wait…many of them are also working on cutting social safety nets like WIC, housing assistance, food stamps, food banks, medical care, etc.
June 25, 2012 at 9:42 pm #761833
JiggersMemberAnyone remember Octomom? She had a plan and that was to bring more kids into the world and live on welfare.
June 25, 2012 at 9:57 pm #761834
westcoastdebParticipantWhat funkietoo said! Finally, I dont feel like the odd woman out!
June 25, 2012 at 10:10 pm #761835
JVMemberfunkietoo’s ridiculous comment,
Many of these same people are often anti-abortion. Where are these people that want all fetuses born? Shouldn’t they be supporting couples/single mothers that choose to have the baby and not get an abortion?
funkietoo, do you know how hard it is to adopt a child in America? There is a severe lack of “fetuses” to use your term. Just imagine if those “fetuses” were allowed to become babies and were adopted by loving parents instead of becoming medical waste.
Living a life poverty or being aborted are NOT the only two options here.
June 25, 2012 at 10:24 pm #761836
anonymeParticipantJune 25, 2012 at 10:24 pm #761837
westcoastdebParticipantAmongst those of us who have placed(that I have talked to online, in person, at conferences, on twitter, etc) abortion vs adoption is not a valid fight. The choice, in the beginning, is carrying this pregnancy vs termination. IF the decision is made to carry the pregnancy, next is the adoption vs raising choice. While it may looks like adoption vs abortion from the beginning, it really is not.
RE: welfare – per this website (http://www.policyalmanac.org/social_welfare/welfare.shtml ) there is a 5 year lifetime limit on welfare unless the state decides it is a case of extreme hardship. There goes your welfare grubbin women.
RE: lack of children to be adopted – It is sometimes difficult to adopt a newborn, and yes couples do wait years. Adopting a child, however, is a different story. There are LOTS of children in foster care who would love a stable, permanent family. There are many, many children with disabilities who also go un-adopted. There is not a lack of children – there is a lack of people looking to adopt anything but a ‘perfect’ newborn.
The state of adoption is so bad in this country that some ‘agencies’ charge a reduced fee to complete the steps to adopt a child of any race than Caucasian.
This is far from an x=y situation. I believe something needs to be done to increase people’s ability to get off of welfare. Stealing there children is not that something.
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