This makes me throw up.

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    This is in response to the Marines opening up a recruiting office in their city.



    I’m not trying to be flippant House, but which part bothers you? Flag burning, kids protesting, being opposed to recruiting, the crowd yelling shame on you which I’m not sure which side that was coming from. There also seemed to be neighbors yelling at everyone to go away b/c they were on their street. I’m not a big fan of recruitment at high schools, but I think they have every right and maybe even an obligation to open an office in every city. Our country certainly needs a strong military and I don’t quite understand opposing them. IMO the kids should be protesting politicians not the military regarding war. And I think they were just kids who weren’t thinking through what they were doing. In that regard I think they’re being stupid not vomit worthy.



    JT.. thanks for your reply. this just tells me this video isn’t worth looking at…

    and house.. you just answered my lingering doubts as to what you are about… you agitator you.



    JT, I should have been specific. The fact that someone would burn the American flag over a military branch opening a recruiting facility (not on a school campus from what I understand) is something that I have a major issue with regardless of age.

    I know 5 year olds that will tell you that the flag should not even touch the ground, so stupidity is not an excuse.

    Protesting is fine (although I personally believe it’s useless).

    Disagreeing with Government is fine.

    Disagreeing with the war is fine.

    Opposing military recruitment on school campuses does not make sense unless you ban all types of recruitng (this would include college and vocational school recruiting).

    And JoB, here is a direct quote from you:

    “Name calling is not and never has been part of civilized conversation and that is the only kind i am interested in.”

    Your validity “hit points” just went down by 50 by calling me an agitator. I can easily see how you view me as such based on your responses. Tell the truth….did you light the match for those kids?



    Flag burning and hating on the military don’t serve the liberals’ causes and give the conservatives ammunition in the patriotism tug-of-war.

    I’m an America-loving liberal, though.



    house… you will be surprised to learn that i got my FBI file by arguing with the SDS (Students for a Democratic Society) all night when my sweet husband drug me to their meetings (i spent so much time with them in the kitchen the FBI assumed I must have been in on the planning …

    he, on the other hand had no file and he barely missed being caught for trying a stunt far more serious than flag burning because i hid his keys, pulled plug wires on the car and unplugged the phone at the junction box… that was before cell phones.

    BTW.. I am assuming this is all long before your time and probably means nothing to you… but long story short.. i am one of the last people in the room to allow children matches… let alone supply them to burn a flag.

    Your comment just shows you haven’t been listening House. What part of I came from a republican family… my family is full of firemen, policemen, nurses and many of them have served in the armed forces don’t you get. I am a democrat House. And I am a patriot. I fully support any American who chooses to serve this country.

    Unlike many republicans.. i actually support the troops… not just the war we have landed in.

    If a little video about a flag burning and anti-war sentiments displayed at a recruiting station are enough to make you throw up, you are going to have a really tough time when real opposition shows up. and if this war continues, it will.

    by the way… an agitator is someone who tries to stir up others by stirring up controversy… do i need to go get webster’s definition… and recognizing that is what you are doing is not calling you names any more than if i caught you tagging houses and called you a graffiti artist.

    you aren’t an artist house… but you sure do like to agitate.



    house. just thought i would help out here.

    if you want to tag me .. you can accurately call me seditious.

    i think of it as actually giving you something to think about… but for some people the act of thinking is sedition:)

    and i meant that in only the most accurate way.



    I don’t see what’s agitating about House sharing that video. I am appalled at the stupidity of people who are protesting the war, so they burn the American flag! That doesn’t even make sense. Every single American, regardless of political views, should be upset to see that. I think it is the fact that people can be that ignorant that makes me want to throw up.



    New resident..

    sharing the video isn’t agitating. it is informing.

    saying that it makes you want to throw up without stating why… creating a point of discussion… is agitating.

    It is indiscriminately throwing “chum” out while fishing to see what it will attract…

    House’s follow up post was far more interesting and had he started there.. i might have actually looked at the video and responded to the post.

    Now your comments are interesting… because you stated what you thought so that others could actually respond with thought… not just a visceral reaction.

    Why do you think protesting the war is stupid? Do you think protesting this particular war is stupid or do you think protesting any war is stupid? Like house, do you believe that protests don’t work?

    I am not meaning to grill you, just ask some questions so that you can clarify your thought.

    I will tell you that history tells us that protest is not useless. Most major changes in our country have occurred because of the catalyst of protest.. including the one that made us a country.

    And why would any protest symbol bother you? Flag burning has been a symbol of protest from the beginning of our country… and it was not always the flag of another country. during different periods of our history, one state or area has brazenly burned the flag of another.. and of the United states itself.

    I would remind you that when the British flag was burned… it was the flag of this country.

    I was strongly opposed to the booing of soldiers that happened while the Vietnam war was winding down because that was blaming individuals for something beyond their control..

    but i am not the least bit concerned with the burning of a flag. That just saying … pay attention… i, an American, am upset with what you are doing.

    i don’t find the clips of terrorists burning the flag so offensive either. They can burn anything they want in effigy.

    When they cut off heads, i get upset.

    Now.. there is a place to start a discussion and neither one of us has to throw up:)



    I do not think protest is stupid. I think it is hypocritical to burn the flag of our own country because you’re upset that we are at war. How would our troops feel to see the citizens they are fighting to protect, burning their country’s flag? That is what is bothersome about the video to me. That’s what I meant by “stupid”. I think that is a little like “booing of soldiers”.

    If you are against the war, make a sign. Burning the symbol of America is as un-patriotic as you can get.



    can we agree to disagree on that one?

    i think there are things far more unpatriotic and harmful to our soldiers than burning a flag. And they are not fighting for a flag. They are fighting for our country and rights every citizen is guaranteed by our constitution.

    It may be an abuse of those rights to burn the American flag, but it is not a crime. It is inflammatory to burn a flag (not meant to be a pun) but that’s the point, isn’t it. It gets attention. I wouldn’t choose to do it, but i can certainly see why some people would.

    I think our troops know how we feel about them by the things we do that directly affect them.. and the huge increase in suicide attempts in Iraq by our troops there tells me a great deal about what we aren’t doing for them. And that doesn’t even begin to address the suicide rate once they return home.

    We show them respect and support by supplying them with the best equipment, the best physical and mental health care, paying them well, honoring their discharge dates, honoring the same commitments as to length and number of tours for the guard troops as for the regular troops… etc…

    so far, the only “troops” in Iraq to be so guaranteed to be outfitted and treated with respect are the mercenary core under Blackwater… and by the way, the American taxpayer directly foots the bill for the majority of them. We pay them very well.

    We are funding and treating mercenaries who are not accountable even to the US Military better than we treat our own soldiers. And those mercenaries are creating some of the problems our troops face there. Not cool! I think that tells our soldiers more about how we feel about them than whether someone at home protests the war by burning a flag.

    Those rights are what our military is supposed to be fighting for… even in Iraq.

    we show our respect for our soldiers when they get home by providing them with timely and first rate services rewarding the sacrifices they made for us. because there is no getting around the fact that serving in the Iraq war in our military is a huge sacrifice… the extent of which we hadn’t imagined. The brain traumas from the blasts alone will impair thousands for the rest of their lives.

    There are sacrifices we are asking there that really are too much to ask of anyone.

    I think we need to put our money where our mouth is and actually support our soldiers… because they are fighting for us. We may not agree with this war… but we can’t dismiss our responsibility to them because of that. That is patriotism in action.

    As for the agreeing to disagree… another way of looking at protests at home against the war is that patriotic Americans are showing our troops they care enough about them to want to get them out of there.

    just another point of view.



    It’s interesting that “showing our troops they care enough about them to want to get them out of there”, isn’t necessarily what they want or agree with. I will admit, I’m not as computer savvy as most of you on this site(meaning, I don’t know how to post the links), but I have seen our soldiers state in interviews that it would not be the right thing to pull out of the war right now. Top generals who have been on the front line have stated this.

    Of course we can agree to disagree. I certainly agree that there are more un-patriotic things that could be done. What happened in that video is just a shame.



    new resident…

    if what happened in that video is inflammatory (and i agree it is)…

    then so is posting it so that it inflames others.

    and why told house he was an agitator.

    What i think is shameful is worrying more about a flag than the Americans who are defending it/our country/our freedoms.

    and yes, just like in America, there are soldiers on both sides of the theoretical question about whether we should stay there…

    but there are very few soldiers anywhere in that kind of battle zone who wouldn’t take the first plane home if it was offered to them.

    And we should worry about them if they thought any different.

    The realities of war and what it does to those who have to wage it are horrendous.

    and that, i think we can all agree on.



    Agreed. “War is Hell”.



    I will disagree with one thing. House sharing that video is not agitating. It is informing. There have been many things shared on this site that have agitated me, bothered me and humored me. It’s sharing information. Maybe because the video painted those bleeding-heart liberals in a bad light is why it was agitating to some. Job, you may disagree and I respect that and agree to disagree on this.



    new resident.. his title was agitating enough to some that they haven’t read it yet:) which is why you and i have been able to talk so freely.

    and agitating enough to me that i won’t go look at the video… and i don’t think that’s because i am a liberal. i think it’s because i don’t support sensationalism at any level. Nor do i need to see one more protest abut a war. been there. done that.

    and the kids of the video… re JT’s description… are not bleeding heart liberals. they are angry kids.

    now, i am a bleeding heart liberal. the bleeding heart part is because we want to make things better for everyone:)

    you give house a lot more benefit of the doubt than i do. You are sweet to do so.

    You assume he is informing. But if he was, what was he informing us of? That he found a video online and he didn’t like it? Because the subject matter wasn’t news to me… was it to you? You did know that kids have been protesting recruiting centers and opposing the war didn’t you?

    And his title didn’t inform. it inflamed. The only reason we have had reasonable conversation as a result of his “information” is that you and i chose to do so. Not because that video added anything to anyone’s information.

    BTW.. i have enjoyed the conversation. but i think i am headed back out to the yard now… and i think you and i have probably exhausted this topic anyway:)

    i have been pulling weeds and have the most incredibly dirty fingernails ever:)



    What makes you think they are liberals, let alone the bleeding heart type? The following quote is taken from the Iraq Veterans Against the War website: Every day, all across this country, there are military recruiters lying to persuade young people to sign up for the military. Proponents of the policy in Iraq are quick to point out that everyone in the military volunteered, but what does that mean if most soldiers were tricked into enlisting by the lies that recruiters tell?



    JT.. a point well made.. and i personally know more than one young man who was lied to by recruiters.

    They are serving now, but not how they thought they would be, not where they thought they would be.. and somehow without those bonuses they were promised.

    I do think we need to crack down on recruiters.. telling lies to get kids just isn’t cool… us military or not.



    This may seem immature, but it must be said.

    I bought a white flag.

    I bought a red marker.

    I brought my black lighter.

    I scrolled “JoB” on the flag.

    I burned it.




    wow…I’m surprised…



    House – since you believe protests are useless was your gesture meant to be taken as a threat? Immature doesn’t begin to describe it…




    thanks for making my point.

    Inflammatory.. but after all, just a symbol.



    you know house, while i was soaking the aches and pains from today’s gardening away, i got to thinking.

    i am pretty sure you weren’t just trying to be funny… and i can’t think you were trying to be hostile… and i am pretty sure you know that was in bad taste… and it just plain doesn’t make you any points even with those who usually defend you … so why?

    someday when we know one another better you will have to tell me if you are a troll or if you really believe all the stuff you spout…

    because some people do, you know.



    We don’t pay you to think.

    I am a troll and I live under the WS Bridge (the little one of course) with my unicorns and Smurfs.

    Next subject.



    “Most codes extend their definitions of treason to acts not really against one’s country. They do not distinguish between acts against the government, and acts against the oppressions of the government. The latter are virtues, yet have furnished more victims to the executioner than the former, because real treasons are rare; oppressions frequent. The unsuccessful strugglers against tyranny have been the chief martyrs of treason laws in all countries.”

    –Thomas Jefferson: Report on Spanish Convention, 1792.

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