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April 15, 2009 at 10:09 pm #590516
CallMeAlMemberIt’s Tax Day! Let’s throw a tea party tonight at Alki Beach. Bring teabags.
April 15, 2009 at 10:14 pm #664461
trensuelaMemberI second the call for some teabaggery at Alki. I for one am tired of my tax dollars going towards those corporate welfare queens.
April 15, 2009 at 10:29 pm #664462
JoBParticipanthave a great time… but don’t count on the tea party to do much for keeping tax dollars from the corporate welfare queens… this is mostly a conservative republican movement you know…
they only object to entitlements for people ;-0
April 16, 2009 at 6:43 am #664463
JulieMemberFor a different perspective, see my post:
https://westseattleblog.com/blog/forum/topic.php?id=4579
I guess all these people with their “tea parties” don’t use any of the amenities that taxes pay for? How do you get to your tea parties–build your own roads?
You’ll never get a better bargain than the one you get when you pay your taxes. It’s the price of civilisation. Personally, I’d like to buy more of it!
Perhaps we should turn the Boston Tea Party cry on its head: No Representation without Taxation!
April 16, 2009 at 3:10 pm #664464
JoBParticipantwe had dinner at Duke’s last night and walked down Alki beach after.
my observation is that if there was a tea party there last night… CallMeAl is very young and fit :)
April 16, 2009 at 3:25 pm #664465
AdamOnAlkiParticipantLAME!
April 16, 2009 at 4:39 pm #664466
CallMeAlMemberVery astute JoB! Did you see me?
April 16, 2009 at 6:59 pm #664467
vincentMemberI really can’t tell if the self named teabaggers are serious or really that dumb all around. The sexual connotations of the name aside, and the fact its just a big Astroturf campaign for simple minds to grab onto. whats the point again? That the current president is somehow responsible for the deficit? hows that again? oh wait, its that people should not pay taxes because they don’t like what deregulation did to the economy… wait, what?
or no I get it now, its about how this is all just like the boston tea party, where Americans protested english taxation without representation. Against a bailout of American banks.
NO WAIT I figured it out, its about buying millions of teabags and throwing them around, to protest wasteful spending…. OH MAN I GIVE UP.
April 16, 2009 at 7:03 pm #664468
KenParticipantCompare the actual history of the Boston Tea Party and the real effect of the Tea Act of 1773 to the vapid heroic myth we were all taught in elementary or middle school. A tax reduction was given to the East India Tea company, effectively the first multinational corporation, which threatened to put out of business several Boston tea importers (as well as an unknown number of smugglers and gray market tax dodging private enterprises)and was actually designed to enhance the market for the crown chartered companies product in the colonies.
http://www.boston-tea-party.org/tea-act.html
So, in a way the current protest is similar. They are representing a tax decrease (on the poor and the middle class) as a tax increase for the purposes of political rhetoric.
The wingnuts understand so little history they are trying to also use Tom Paine as a role model when Paine opposed every single concept, ideology and nationalistic fantasy spouted by Beck, Limbaugh and congressional republicans just as he bitterly opposed (and was opposed by)conservative founder John Adams. However even John Adams said: “Without the pen of Paine, the sword of Washington would have been wielded in vain.”
Tom Paine is the author of many incendiary and radical quotes a few of which can be twisted to fit the the tea baggers agenda, but he is most famous as the father of the minimum wage, adamant opposition to any mixing of church and state and as author of political documents that are credited with starting the discussions of turning the ideas of the enlightenment era into revolution both in the US and France.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Paine
In case any were wondering, I found the entire tea bagging episode hilarious and was most amused to see that nearly all of the protesters seemed to have been boycotting spellcheckers when they made their signs. The abuse of history is not new but has been proven effective by the religious wrong so it is not surprising to see the propagandist of the anti tax crowd wield it with abandon.
The most amusing photo of the day was of a “don’t tread on me ” flag being waved from the passenger seat of a new Porsche.
A few actual Paine quote for your edification and amusement:
“When it shall be said in any country in the world, ‘my poor are happy, neither ignorance nor distress is to be found among them; my jails are empty of prisoners, my streets of beggars; the aged are not in want; the taxes are not oppressive; the rational world is my friend, because I am the friend of its happiness’; when these things can be said, then may that country boast its constitution and its Government.”
— Thomas Paine
“I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.
“All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
“I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise. They have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving: it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.”
–Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason
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Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it.
— Thomas Paine
Read the works of Paine online:
April 16, 2009 at 7:21 pm #664469
vincentMemberSTOP TRYING TO MAKE SENSE OF IT KEN your ruining the general effect for me.
April 16, 2009 at 7:28 pm #664470
HMC RichParticipantAt least Paine didn’t condemn people with alternative thoughts.
All I know is that a lot of people who have never protested before, did.
April 16, 2009 at 7:58 pm #664471
JanSParticipantHMC Rich…where were all these protesters last year? Why weren’t they protesting the economic disaster then? Oh? Because the prez was one of them? This couldn’t possibly be partisan, could it? Why, I just believe it might be. The question that arises in my mind is (and some really big “ifs”) IF John McCain had won…and IF John McCain was implementing the same things, would there have even been a thought of a “tea party”…call me cynical, but somehow I doubt it.
April 16, 2009 at 8:21 pm #664472
JulieMemberAmericans’ Tax Burden Near Historic Low:
April 16, 2009 at 9:05 pm #664473
vincentMemberWe should abolish Canada, gravity and chicken fried steak while we are at it. Also I want a pony.
April 16, 2009 at 9:31 pm #664474
BayouMemberI thought this summed it up perfectly. “Americans buy one million teabags to protest wasteful spending. Are you protesting wasteful spending or irony?”
April 16, 2009 at 9:41 pm #664475
JanSParticipantI drink tea a lot. I’m trying to imagine the good that the money spent on a million tea bags could do…yeah, a well thought out plan. What a waste of time, space, money.
April 16, 2009 at 9:50 pm #664476
KBearParticipantBuying all those teabags should help the Chinese and Indian economies, at least.
April 17, 2009 at 12:20 am #664477
JoBParticipantif they really bought all those tea bags they wasted.. it should have had a small stimulus effect on the economy… and they get a huge bravo for that…
but the artificial demand will probably raise tea prices for those of us who actually drink the stuff;(
April 17, 2009 at 7:40 am #664478
HMC RichParticipantJanS. I am not certain but I bet they were watching the Primary’s. They were looking for change. Gas was around $4.00 and people were complaining. Or maybe we were giving more money to Sound Transit or voting for some viaduct options.
Just like on November 4th of last year I saw proud, caring Americans and also unhappy Americans. I saw concerned citizens who like you mostly pay their taxes.
Lo and Behold, a year later, the Progressive agenda and big government hits high gear. Boom, like a cannon shot. It was bad enough under the Republicans and Bush but the Democrats are passing bills that they don’t even read before voting. They feel that this money that you and I earn is actually theirs.
Lately, some people are in shell shock at how much money has been spent or earmarked for spending by the government in less than 100 days into the current administration with a mighty hangover from the previous administration. You know what, people who don’t usually go out and protest are nicely letting the government know that they better get their act together or those politicians in 2 years and 4 years will be in the private sector (unless they get a job at Fannie Mae!).
Sooooo people are exercising their right to speak out, or is that only allowed by the progressives? Is that only allowed by the protests of Reagan and nukes? Is that only allowed for the Million Man march? Is that only allowed by the WTO activists who thought it was mostly just a way to look cool? Nope, it is available for everyone and across the country small and large groups met. This was a working class movement, this was middle America which most of you are part of telling our elected officials to take notice. Not many rabble rousers that I saw. Is it just me or was there not the usual amount of arrests. HMMMMM.
A lot of the signs were aimed at the current administration but many were not. Many took the government, Federal and State to task and both parties to task. Many did not allow politicians to talk. As you and others have said Bush and the Republicans spent too much. You got that right. Obama and crew are spending more. Stimulus and Omnibus and Budget are going to cost Trillions, not millions or billions. Let alone the problem of Medicare and Social Security looming on the horizon.
People are feeling left out of the process and powerless, and partly responsible for electing some of these bums. Pelosi can say it is astroturf but it was more of a grass roots movement. Some are trying to make political hay out of it, but many are just citizens saying Hey Olympia, or Sacramento, or Madison or Washington… We are here too and we don’t say a lot usually but you had better listen to us once in awhile. Get your act together.
Is it so much to ask for accountability by the government?
People are concerned and exercising their inalienable right to speak out.
More importantly, how much government do you want? How much debt are you willing to put at the feet or our youngsters and possibly their youngsters. Government needs our money to do anything. They should be accountable to us at all times, not just when election time comes around. We as citizens need to pay taxes and just want them to be fair and as low as possible.
The tax code has about 60,000 pages, WTF? It has fluctuated from 1%-7% in the beginning to 90% for the wealthy during WWII and now it is in the 20%’s to 39% range currently. Add on local and state taxes and the government gets almost 1/3 to almost 1/2 of what we make.
BTW, Washington State is the 8th most taxed state in the union. But, we may lose the rest of Boeing. That means more unemployment. Other businesses will or already have followed. Why? because of unfriendly and oppressive tax policies.
JanS, You are a business owner. B & O tax good or bad? You tell me. If the government is more efficient and lets me keep some more of what I earn, then maybe I could spend it on your business. Some will fire back that many businesses don’t pay taxes. They may be correct so tell our elected officials to throw out the tax code and make certain everyone pays their fair share.
Rossi kept saying that the state was going to feel a crunch, even before the recession hit. Gregoire was saying everything was fine. Now an 8.5 Billion dollar shortfall is upon our state. Excuse me but this state and the Governor have been mostly controlled by the Democratic Party lately, but many Republicans are just as guilty. She and they increased government and now can’t pay for it. Tuition at colleges are sky rocketing. SR 99 viaduct could have been paid for if just replaced, but NOOOOOO they want a tunnel that will cost twice as much roughly. Monorail project takes hundreds to thousands of dollars from us and doesn’t get built. 911 services have to be passed by a vote for a levy instead of being a budgeted item. King County wants to lay off Sheriff department personnel? Space Age porta-potties in downtown get sold on Ebay for pennies? The SLUT was built, but did I get a say in it? The Port has lost Millions of dollars and still they take more.
I ask again. How much government do you want? Whether Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Moderate, Conservative, Liberal these people are accountable to us and if they are called to the carpet for their actions by the electorate once in a while, I say good for us.
April 17, 2009 at 7:42 am #664479
HMC RichParticipantAs far as tea goes. Iced Chai Tea Latte or English Breakfast in Glasgow Scotland. Yum
April 17, 2009 at 3:11 pm #664480
JulieMemberHMC: absolutely they have a right to protest, just as those of us who think their message confused and erroneous have a right to criticize their ideas.
I also point out it’s not as if none of us has had any say in the spending of the taxes we pay: citizens on all sides of all these issues have contacted their legislators and even testified before committees.
I don’t agree with all their choices, as you do not–although I suspect we disagree in rather opposite ways!
For one thing, I think if we all paid more taxes, not less, we could more cheaply buy more of what makes our society happier and more civilised. I think what I buy with the taxes I pay (even considering the spending with which I disagree) are the very best bargain I make, and I sure wish I could buy more of it!
I think we should institute a tax-day celebration that involves thanking our fellow taxpayers for all the wonderful benefits of our collective spending that surround us.
April 17, 2009 at 3:30 pm #664481
JoBParticipantHMCRich…
one of the articles linked above has a statistic you ought to pay attention to.. it said that it was project that 42% (if memory serves.. which is iffy this morning) of taxpayers paid no tax at all this year…
playing the tax card isn’t likely to upset too many of them… so if only 10% of those who paid taxes are democrats.. it’s time for the republicans to find a new hook if they want to stay politically viable…
complaining about those tax and spend democrats and their entitlement programs when states are cutting the budgets of all programs that assist the poor, disabled and medically needy .. not to mention education… while the US govt spends obscene sums on big business just doesn’t have a solid ring to it.
perhaps it’s time to step back, take a deep breath, look around and adjust the rhetoric to fit the reality.
President Obama and the newly democratic congress didn’t dig this hole… President Bush and a largely republican congress did.
We can only hope that the guys left holding the bag spend enough to stimulate this economy so that it starts producing taxes again and can begin to bail itself out.
Even if that money goes to the blankety blank horses behinds whose unparalleled greed produced it in the first place…
republicans and their economic benefactors ;(
April 17, 2009 at 4:39 pm #664482
Lucile 2MemberHMC Rich:
Thank you. I just don’t have the energy to type as much as you do, so thank you.
Sure, there are anti-Obama signs, there are fair tax signs, but the are people from ALL classes and races, Repubs and Democrats, and those who are genuinely upset about lack of government accountability for spending. Some calling for term limits.
I was born and raised Libertarian/Republican, but I side with the Democrats and I am so socially liberal that my mother in law thinks I am the devil (but, come on, I think that might just be a rite of passage).
I have no political party affiliation, because I don’t really think either party has it together. But I think the common thread here is that if we can protest the war, we can protest abortion, we can protest bailouts…then we can protest a government who we believe is unaccountable, and it doesn’t matter who is in charge. This is not a Bush or Obama thing. It is citizens simply asking for accountability from their elected officials. We hired them based on how they said they would manage the “company” and they should be allowed to get a performance review by the hiring committee, and if necessary, fired.
Honestly, protests aren’t my thing. And I had to work anyhow. If the government can’t get it together and provide the level of care they claim to for my adult brothers with disabilities with then taxes I pay, then I have to work extra to do so.
April 17, 2009 at 5:23 pm #664483
CallMeAlMemberKBear,
Are you implying that only the Chinese or Indian communities teabag? True, the Chinese have teabagged for many a century, but what about Japan, Korea, Vietnam and Taiwan? Sometimes I add milk after my teabag.
April 17, 2009 at 5:53 pm #664484
KBearParticipantAl,
China and India produce half the world’s tea. I’m sure they don’t care if we drink it or dump it, as long as we keep buying it. The original protesters, of course, didn’t pay for the tea they dumped into the harbor. And the current protest has absolutely nothing to do with the situation that caused the original protest, except that taxes are involved. But tax protesters are adept at oversimplifying any issue and blaming any problem on high taxes. And the ones that howl the loudest are usually the ones who would be hurt the most if taxes were cut.
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