Stolen Signs

[Kayleigh2]

No, it was an honest question. So much for your great “honesty” in answering.

But I know the answer: you do feel better.

And now I need a shower after reading this thread. Yuck.

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[JimmyG]

I don’t want to private message JaimeG, I want to shout it from the rooftops right here on the WSB forums:

Thank you for being so articulate in making your point that just because others here may not like your take on a subject doesn’t mean you don’t have a right to say it.

And full disclosure here: I have awful taste, sucked on my SAT’s, and don’t want us to have a world class city here in Seattle, yet I love hearing your take on why we might disagree on some things JaimeG!

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[datamuse]

Out of curiosity: Jaime do you happen to work in architecture or urban planning by any chance? Those are the only people I’ve EVER heard utter the phrase “built environment” and I’ve wondered if it’s a term of art or something.

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[JaimeGummer]

Kayleigh2: I know you wanted me to say I feel better because you were trying to make a point. But honestly, I feel no different than before I read the initial thread about the signs. You know, it IS possible to have just a bit of perspective here. This is just an Internet comment thread. About 10,000 people around the world (mostly children) died today simply because they didn’t have access to clean drinking water. At the end of the day isn’t it just a little silly for people to get all worked up about this?

acemotel and JimmyG: Thanks much for the props.

datamuse: No, my background is in Cardiothoracic medicine. But you’re absolutely right. The term “built environment” is commonly used by urban planners and architects.

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[JoB]

Full Tilt..

I have to join you on this one… “Who wants to live in a place where the loudest mouth wins? “

A boards have their place…

for those who don’t know..

Full Tilt’s business utilizes an A board… though i doubt that influenced his defense…

without it.. you wouldn’t find his business… and that would be a shame since his isn’t a typical ice cream store..

much like Revolution coffee on Admiral Way…

i liked both fine.. i didn’t analyze the artwork.. just the effectiveness.. and both got me where i wanted to go.

You can have screaming neon or A boards… i’ll take the a boards any day..

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[JoB]

JamieGummer..

something tells me those who participated in the craft show wouldn’t meet your standards..

if they did they wouldn’t be participating in a local craft sale and most of West Seattle couldn’t afford their work.

it’s not just blue collar workers who aren’t shelling out a premium for “quality” art these days…

The shops will sell what their customers will buy… and it appears you are in the minority in what you expect from them since they are still open and doing business.

it is all well to insist that all of us rise to some urban chic standard you set… but most of us have neither the inclination or the pocketbook to do so.

West Seattle doesn’t have to be just like everyplace else… that’s what makes it charming…

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[mellaw6565]

Cardiothoracic eh? So where’s your heart?

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[wingme]

“Johnsongummer”? pretty good one there, Tilt. :o

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[Kayleigh2]

Jaime, to point out the obvious: YOU were the one who offered us post after post of your fascinating opinion on a small business’s stolen handmade signs (which broadened into a view on the tragically unhip state of aesthetics in West Seattle.)

I asked because I can’t think of any reason why anybody would post something that mean-spirited and small, other than to make themselves feel better (or maybe stir things up, or draw attention to themselves.) ‘Cause when I’m a twit, Jaime, it’s usually about something that actually matters (or else I’m in a very bad state, in which case I generally apologize)

But I can see you are here to educate us pleebs on the mandate that all things please *your* sophisticated taste. So thank you for the direction; I’ll get right on that. ;-)

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[JaimeGummer]

I’ve not yet tried Quarter/Half/FullTilt’s ice cream. Maybe not enough sandwich board signs to help me find the place. But I’m curious to try it if I can get some without spit in it at this point ;-)

Job: I hear what you’re saying and I can see that you are trying so hard to couch it carefully and politely. But I feel like you, and Kayleigh2, are falling into that same cynical trap of suggesting elitism, economic and otherwise the second anyone asks if we could do better. And the second anyone says, “this could be improved” people immediately jump forward and say sarcastically, “Oh, you’re the expert?” because there is a certain amount of fear in what’s new and outside of comfort zones.

The thing is, I’d love to be able to peruse the craft show and find things that I like. I’d love to be able to support local craftspeople. The problem is that there is not enough diversity in what’s being offered. It’s fine that people have differing tastes. But why is everything that is being offered in such poor taste? Couldn’t we have a broader spectrum of goods that appeal to a wider range of people? Wouldn’t that make for a more vibrant and interesting craft sale?

It seems sort of anti-progressive (anti-American, even) to say, “We like things the way they are and don’t want to rock the boat with anything too new or radical.” You seem to be saying “West Seattle is charming the way it is and to change it or make it any better would not be charming.” I just think that’s vague and I disagree. Just because the craft show is scraping by isn’t really an accurate litmus test of its economic viability. However, you’re right (JoB) in noting that this is the metric that is going to shake everything out. All of this new residential space you’re seeing built is going to bring in an influx of new West Seattleites who are going to want something better than cheesy craft shows and dive bars with water and mold raining from the ceiling. They’re not going to be the ones protesting the improvement of the Statue of Liberty plaza on the grounds that would do so would make it too pretty. Everything is going to change.

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[JoB]

JamieGummer..

you apparently missed the part of Doris’s post that said most of the crafters sold all of their inventory… that isn’t exactly the litmus test of scraping by.

it is clear that there is a difference of opinion.. a lot of people voted with their pocketbooks to create a successful sale… and they didn’t vote that the craft items offered were in poor taste.

Who knows, you may have missed some outstanding items because of your preconceived notions of what was.. and wasn’t available at that sale.

You are right that in time as young urban professionals figure out that West Seattle isn’t another continent and is close to their work downtown they will bring other businesses to West Seattle that will cater to their taste. That is the way voting with your pocketbook works.

But you are wrong to assume that the change in taste will be necessarily be an improvement. I have seen plenty of truly tasteless product sold to that demographic.. just because it is new or different doesn’t make it better.

To be honest.. the majority of the building designs in those projects that you mention are going up aren’t exactly groundbreaking design… nor are they a delight to the eye.

FullTilt.. or half tilt or quarter tilt as you so charmingly called him would welcome your business. He cares far too much about the integrity of the quality of his ice cream to spit in it.. so you are safe.

The joke is that you will find his shop meets your criteria… campy retro mixed with some of the best ice cream with the most innovative flavors around…

and you might even find yourself admiring the proprietor and his wife… locals who put their money where their mouth was in a dinky store front in a less desirable part of the West Seattle peninsula and offered a product outstanding enough to gain mention in downtown upscale food commentaries.

Of course.. you would never find it without recommendations from those who will enter a storefront regardless of it’s exterior and location just to see what is inside.

Have you discovered Zippys? Another local putting their money where their mouth is in a less desirable location and producing quality hamburgers.

Neither proprietor would have been able to open the store in one of those upscale locations with an appropriately aesthetic exterior…

nor are they likely to move to one when their business blossoms … part of their intention is to invest in their community. They both buy locally.. Zippys buys ice cream from Full tilt… they employ locally.. and they both made sure their businesses were safe welcoming places for the local children.

They.. and other businesses like them.. which includes Doris’s shop and many others… clearly are pursuing standards of excellence… while being socially responsible to their community.

I personally would hate to see the homogenization and the increase in rental costs for small businesses that has inflicted other Seattle neighborhoods as the wants and needs of the young urban professionals drove out local businesses happen to West Seattle.

Is it inevitable? maybe. But that doesn’t necessarily make it a good thing…

as you will discover in time as you age and gain an appreciation for the timeless nature of some art… and an understanding that unique is not always pretty but is still of great value simply because it is unique.

You are entitled to your personal opinions.. but it is possible to express them in a way that doesn’t put down the rest of us who also live here and are entitled to our opinions…

and who happen to appreciate the quirky enough to tolerate an A board leading us to their location.

Poke your head in enough of those storefronts and you might join those in West Seattle who battle to keep this community unique…

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[charlabob]

I have never understood why people dread the advent of “new upscale folks” into the condos and coops until now. Probably because I have never actually had to confront/been confronted by someone with JG’s attitude. And because I believe in mixed communities — including communities of mixed taste, I had this idyllic notion of tolerance. Now I understand. We’re afraid a person with high SAT scores and an even higher opinion of hirself might move in next door and tear down our pink flamingos.

I’ve learned to react to informal signs on the sidewalk and curbstrips because they give me information I might not get otherwise. The message is the medium (sic) and I’m looking to them for information about where something is, not as pieces of art. In fact, I don’t look on most pieces of art as art. But I don’t castigate folks who don’t share my odd taste.

Amazing thread — you never know what’s going to twist someone’s virtual underwear, do you?

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[andrea]

seriously? a post about a swiped sign has been denegrated to this? i hope your missing signs are returned Doris. that sucks they were taken. and i hope those of you her who took to demeaning her and those like her in the craft world (yes, you were demeaning AND condescending) find some meaning in your lives beyond putting others ‘in their place.’ seriously?…

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[WSB]

Responding to a variety of flags – in addition to deleting a couple of posts, I agree with some suggestions that this has more than run its course (and gone in the same circles a few times). So it’s now closed. If anyone sees Doris’s signs, please let her know, and also alert police – theft is a crime.

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[Author]

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