Home › Forums › West Seattle Rants & Raves › Stolen Signs
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November 17, 2008 at 11:06 pm #647412
flowerpetalMemberI agree that these signs are problematic; but I don’t think they are illegal. Did someone else take a look at the Municipal Code cited in comment #10? I’m wondering now if I am misreading it. Looks to me like it is a legal use of sidewalks and parking strips.
November 17, 2008 at 11:13 pm #647413
FullTiltParticipantWhat ever their legal status, how about some civility when it comes to dealing with other people. Some of these comments are beyond rude.
November 17, 2008 at 11:29 pm #647414
flowerpetalMemberI ask in all sincerety if you are referencing me about being rude FullTilt. I value civility and I also value having rude behaviors committed by myself being addressed.
November 17, 2008 at 11:41 pm #647415
FullTiltParticipantNo FP, I was not addressing you, just the comments in general in this thread.
November 17, 2008 at 11:57 pm #647416
WSBKeymasterI also have interpreted the code to say these are legal in those areas IN BUSINESS DISTRICTS.
If you have a problem with a sign or any other aspect of a business, talk to its owner. Otherwise I would hope that in the interest of a healthy community – which is going to be something of an island when all the major road projects are humming simultaneously a few years down the line – small businesses (we ourselves are a small business) would get support and appreciation.
The OP’s business, by the way, is all about handmade creations, and is one of the truly unique shops in The Junction. Handmade doesn’t always mean high artistic standards – but the time, trouble, and love that goes into it is worth something on its own.
If anyone has a doubt about the interpretation of the code, I can chase down further authority, but right now I have a variety of other inquiries out to various city agencies on a variety of other followups.
November 18, 2008 at 12:20 am #647417
JaimeGummerMemberSomeone needs to invent a drinking game that involves everyone taking a drink whenever someone in West Seattle evokes the name of Bellevue when referring to something tasteful. Frankly, I’m sick of the backward notion that West Seattle cannot be better without becoming bland. And never have I lived in a place where people have so vehemently defended all that is broken down and decrepit.
But getting back to the signs, there certainly was a lot of them out on the sidewalks yesterday. I’m all for locally owned businesses marketing themselves but it was a little over the top to have so many cluttering public sidewalks. That the signs were so under-designed and lacking in imagination only added insult to injury.
November 18, 2008 at 12:29 am #647418
vincentMemberJaime: Seriously agree.
Also, the interpretation of “business district” here includes pretty much anywhere. got a small business in your basement? put out some A boards!!
Selling condos a business! lets put them out in front! I sold something on ebay today! where does my sign go!
If they are in the public right of way, you really have no room to complain, especially because these “locked” signs are no doubt left out 24 hours when they disappear, which kinda defeats the whole “its not litter as defined by law” notion. Where is all that indignation that the peanut gallery has for parked cars now?
November 18, 2008 at 12:45 am #647419
specialeditionsstudioMemberThe signs for the Craft Sale simply said ‘Craft Sale’ with an arrow. They didn’t need to say anything more. They were right on point. If you would like to volunteer your time to paint for new ‘fancy’ signs I’m sure Friends would appreciate it! They could replace the ‘stolen’ ones and be used for next years sale.
Also Vincent the signs that were stolen and those not taken were not placed outside until the shop opened in the morning and were collected at the close of business each day.
It’s funny how a thread that was a comment on theivery became a rant on a small business owner simply trying to help her business and that a of few small artists for just a few days. Bottom line the signs were stolen and the focus of the thread should remain on that issue!
November 18, 2008 at 1:02 am #647420
vincentMemberPeople that send spam and junk mail are small business owners.
Its great you own or support a small business but when you do it at my expense, IE: using public property, there is a cost for that. Call it an inconvenience eyesore or whatever, but its a public resource being used for private monetary gain.
Don’t expect me, or anyone else to get all giddy you are chaining a large sign to share with the world things or services that I might not want.
November 18, 2008 at 1:13 am #647421
FullTiltParticipantJesus christ! Unclench. There is no reason to run around on sphincter tightness 11 over a boards. There is also no reason to be so insulting and douchey over the whole thing either.
November 18, 2008 at 3:47 am #647422
JaimeGummerMemberIt looked like someone printed “CRAFT SALE” off on a computer in the largest, ugliest Windows PC font they could find and laminated it to white wood along with bright orange arrows. The signs were tasteless and couldn’t have been more basic.
Signs don’t have to be expensive or elaborate. All I was calling for was a little effort. Use a decent typeface. Center the text.
Just take a walk through the Junction and pay attention to all of the different, discordant typefaces. Most signage is utilitarian in the extreme. But you may notice that some of the businesses have taken the time to design logos and to use typefaces that are simple, elegant and beautiful.
The people who roll their eyes and say it doesn’t matter are the ones who are polluting our public spaces with ugliness. West Seattle has such striking natural beauty. Our built environment deserves better.
November 18, 2008 at 3:59 am #647423
KaylaMSMemberOk this comment is not meant to be rude. Call it an opinion, fact, or whatever. Does it really matter where these signs are posted if it’s legal? I don’t see why it’s such a problem, it’s no different than any other business posting signs outside of their stores. As for a sign ruining the landscape, they’re all over the place, especially in places with a lot of small businesses, so if you have a problem with them, don’t complain about it here send a letter to someone who can do something about. Not that anything will happen, but hey if you’re passionate about it, go for it. Who’s stopping you.
Acemotel, that is just wrong of you to think that posting a sign on public property is “fair game”. Do you know what our taxes go to. We pay a fair amount to these roads, so who’s to say we can’t put up a sign on the street that’s only temporarily there, mind you, when it’s legal anyways. The point is the sign is her property and it was stolen, and most people with morals would say that stealing is wrong. I believe that. It’s no different than someone stealing a wallet on the ground. That’s someone’s property on public ground.
Now why did a conversation about stolen signs become so controversial. The point is they’re gone and they shouldn’t have been stolen in the first place.
November 18, 2008 at 4:20 am #647424
specialeditionsstudioMemberJamie….you are still missing the entire point of the original post. It was about theft, not a personal interpretation of what might be esthetically beautiful to one and not to another.
A little bit of kindness goes a long way.
November 18, 2008 at 4:43 am #647425
JaimeGummerMemberspecialeditionstudio: The last time I checked this was an open forum in which people are free to post their thoughts and opinions. Fine. I understand that you don’t agree with me. It is clear to me that you just don’t get it. But really, I require absolutely no advice from you on what kind of comments are relevant to this post.
From a sociological and anthropological perspective I’m intrigued as to why a discussion of beauty and taste has to automatically be construed by some as rude. Everyone seems to aspire to this politically correct, Victorian ideal of not rocking the boat and upsetting the herd.
I stated clearly that I don’t know Doris and I expect that she’s a super nice lady. I’m also sorry that someone took her sign and that people don’t have respect for other people’s property. But with that said I wanted to make my opinion known, as a member of this community and a resident of the Junction neighborhood, that these signs were a blight and could have been done with a little more thought.
November 18, 2008 at 4:50 am #647426
JanSParticipantso..a suggestion…start a thread about what you consider a blight and what you consider beauty. We appreciate that you may not like some things that are out there, but it was a bit inappropriate conveying the message that since you thought the signs ugly, it was OK for someone to take them. That is the impression we got from you. Yes, it’s an open forum, but was totally off topic.
I’m sure you’d get a lively discussion about aesthetics in a separate thread. This community is definitely not lacking in opinions :)
November 18, 2008 at 5:08 am #647427
acemotelParticipantJust because we pay taxes, doesn’t mean we can do whatever we please on public property. You can’t go camp overnight in a park. You can’t use public property for your personal advertising medium either.
Suppose every business, small and large, decided to put reader boards on the boulevard area of Alki Avenue? OK, just go across the street to the NC-1 district, likewise. If everyone put up signs, there wouldn’t be any place to walk! Even though it is allowed in the business district, apparently.
I’m not sure, because I haven’t checked out SDOT’s regulations yet. But I know for sure you can’t litter public property in an SF zone, no matter how much you’ve paid in taxes.
There is one particular business that has a-frame signs all around West Seattle. They are chained to a trees or fences, whatever. They are left up 24/7, 365. I would not be sorry if they disappeared.
November 18, 2008 at 5:29 am #647428
KaylaMSMemberPeople advertise on public property all the time, because it is legal. You could argue that walking on a sidewalk is no different that doing something like placing a sign there. It’s there for public use. I know I see real-estate signs all over seattle, along with yard sale signs, lost dog posters, etc. The West Seattle Junction is a growing community mostly made up of business whose main goals are to get people into their stores, and they are going to do that through advertising.
Who’s to say that those signs are littering, to the man who made those signs it was a piece of art, and calling it litter is just plain rude. Opinions like that should be kept to yourself.
The point is the signs were temporary for a 3-day craft fair. No different that advertising a yard sale, where’s the harm in that? It’s not about taking up space on public property, it’s about the fact that stealing is wrong.
November 18, 2008 at 5:34 am #647429
acemotelParticipantIf I want to call it littering, I’ll call it littering. Putting up signs in SF zone is not legal. Try to read and understand before responding instead of getting emotionally involved. Have a nice evening.
November 18, 2008 at 6:30 am #647430
JaimeGummerMemberacemotel: Nicely said.
KaylaMS: A work of art?! Puh-lease. The only people who could have construed those signs as art are maybe the visually impaired. Your argument, than one person’s eyesore is another person’s art is exactly how so much mediocrity is tolerated. And I’m sure George W. Bush thinks he did a bang-up job but I’m sure there are others who disagree with him. And saying so wouldn’t be rude. It would be honest.
JanS: The topic was about these signs. It sucks that someone stole one. But while we’re on the topic this woman went crazy with putting ugly signs all over the sidewalk. There were too many of them! I think she maybe had a bit too much self interest in promoting her sale and did not put enough thought into what was appropriate for a public thoroughfare. Shoofly putting a board in front of their business advertising holiday pies is completely reasonable. But putting craft sale signs on each and every corner of the Junction is excessive.
November 18, 2008 at 4:58 pm #647431
JanSParticipantGuess I should be glad that you’re around, Jaime, to steer me in the right direction as far as good and bad art. Who knew we had such an expert in our midst.
Yes, it was about the signs. It was about the theft of the signs, not about whether they were aesthetically appealing to YOU. It was a 3-day sale. It’s over…move on. Geez.
November 18, 2008 at 5:07 pm #647432
JaimeGummerMemberJans: You’re welcome. The art lesson was free. But if you’d like me to swing by your place for a wardrobe consultation I’m gonna have to invoice you.
Yes, I’m clearly having trouble moving on from these signs. They were so horrifying as to be permanently scarring. Bad typefaces have that effect on a great number of us who know from bad signs.
November 18, 2008 at 5:26 pm #647433
JenVMemberCongratulations, folks. This is officially the meanest & snarkiest thread ever! It also ranks pretty high on the dumb-ass-o-meter.
Doris, I hope you find who took your signs, and then you beat them with said signs.
November 18, 2008 at 7:34 pm #647434
mellaw6565MemberThanks Jen – I was going to post a similar sentiment today.
Note to Jaime: I notice that you are new to the blog and I hope that you will read some of the forum expectation postings and approach things with a nicer demeanor. You are a physician – are you that hard/cold with your patients? Have some compassion for a victim of theft the same as you would have for any of your patients. And if you have a beef with a particular issue, then start your own thread.
November 18, 2008 at 7:58 pm #647435
JaimeGummerMemberJenV: So you’ve saved this thread, what, by criticizing the critical and namecalling? You’ve effectively established your superiority while ignoring the fact that you’re reading and posting to a thread that you consider dumb. Is this the best use of your time?
mellaw6565: You’re not a moderator of this group. I’m sorry if my opinions offend those who are unaccustomed to honesty and directness. But it is arrogant and presumptuous for you and others here who feel an unreasonable sense of ownership on this forum to tell me how and what to post.
Value judgments about aesthetics are not in themselves offensive. It is the people who have anxiety about such things who get worked up. Too often things like this in the built environment have to pander to the lowest common denominator and that is frustrating to those who would like to live in more elegant and thoughtful surroundings.
So again, while I regret that Doris had her signs stolen I simultaneously feel as though the design of the signs and the excessive number of them were a blight on the streetscape.
November 18, 2008 at 8:09 pm #647436
FullTiltParticipantJust when I thought this thread could not sink any lower. Thanks for the insight.
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