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August 1, 2008 at 7:09 pm #587664
JoBParticipantOk.. a thread for sleazy political moves from advocates for BOTH candidates…
Someone brought this to my attention this morning.
this really does border on the illegal… in fact.. i wouldn’t be too surprised to see more lawsuits over this.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121755649066303381.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news
I found the mention in the article of adds where a sleazy sopranos type character leans on workers to coerce them to sign union cards particularly amusing.
yeah.. i am sure that union organizers would have to use thugs to get underpaid, under-benefited employees to sign union cards so they could negotiate better pay and benefits…
The sad thing is that some people are going to buy it.
August 1, 2008 at 8:31 pm #632961
charlabobParticipantHey, if a sleazy sopranos-type character can get me health care and other benefits, and wages that don’t fall too far behind the cost of living, I’m with hir. Those polyester leisure suits can grow on you (and often do).
Sounds a bit racist and classist, coming from those people who accuse us of being elitist snobs, doesn’t it?
This definitely *would have been* illegal before the takeoer of the Supreme Court by right-wing extremists. Now we have to continue to remember that legal is what those folks say is legal (and hope that the four “liberals” and one “swinger” stay healthy for the rest of the year.)
I’m planning to do more research in the whole area of political ads and I’ll post anything interesting (interesting to me, that is :-) Meantime, I want to thank JoB and her sources for this tidbit. There’s definitely a movement afoot to “manage” the November election and none of it is good for the vast majority of the population. If the unions don’t protect the workers and the government only protects big bidness, um, I detect a bit of a disparity.
August 1, 2008 at 8:52 pm #632962
AnonymousInactiveI am a member of a union and receive countless mailings telling me to vote Democrat.
How is this different? Nothing wrong (or illegal) with educating voters
“We feel educating our associates about the bill is the right thing to do.” – Tovar
August 1, 2008 at 9:02 pm #632963
JanSParticipantsimply put, your union is good for you, it provides you with bargaining power, etc,etc,etc…and you already belong. This company is using scare tactics of management to get workers to not unionize, which would be damned helpful for those employees if they were.They’ve already been found to engage in illegal practices re: unionizing, withholding merit pay, etc, for those who try to organize.
Wal-Mart does not want their stores unionized, so they can keep the wages low, fire at will, etfc…think about it. Sleazy, in my book, even if not found to be illegal.
August 1, 2008 at 9:43 pm #632964
AnonymousInactiveFunny that, because I am already a member of a union, you assume I am automatically awarded so many benefits.
“simply put, your union is good for you, it provides you with bargaining power, etc,etc,etc…”
I am not thrilled with the union I belong to (and am not the only one). As far as the dues I pay every month, I don’t feel, personally, that I get in return what it’s worth.
There are good sides to a union and there are bad sides to a union. It’s too easy, though, to immediately disregard an argument because it is ASSUMED that all unions are good for everyone. Furthermore, it is only the fringe of a debate to claim that businesses are not for unions simply to keep labor costs low and maintain the ability to terminate employees.
Education of its employees is a good thing for every business. Maybe because these businesses are not preaching the same opinions as you (collectively), is what is really the problem.
August 1, 2008 at 9:50 pm #632965
AnonymousInactiveNR, I think I’d feel the same way about being in a union if I was in one. I don’t really like them and have not applied for certain jobs because they were unionized. In general, I could see why they were necessary in the 30’s but they seem to just be pimps these days. Maybe what I have heard over the years from primary sources is incorrect. Just wanted to comment. Are you and I the only right leaning peeps on this blog/board? :)
August 1, 2008 at 9:52 pm #632966
AnonymousInactiveI’d just like to add that I feel one person can be pro democrat or pro republican but in general, almost ALL politicians are sleezy. Necessary evil I guess.
August 1, 2008 at 9:56 pm #632967
AnonymousInactive“In the United States, the outsourcing of labor to Asia, Latin America, and Africa has been partially driven by increasing costs of union partnership, which gives other countries a comparative advantage in labor, making it more efficient to perform labor-intensive work there.”
– Wikipedia
August 1, 2008 at 9:57 pm #632968
JenVMemberhave a great weekend everyone, and remember, without unions having fought for worker rights, you wouldn’t even have a weekend.
August 1, 2008 at 10:00 pm #632969
AnonymousInactivewsblover – I believe we are. We did have House, but I haven’t seen him lately. I know that there are some lurkers (one was posting, quite eloquently, I might add, but then stopped).
I certainly agree with what you said about politicians. They are all sleazy and to believe otherwise, or to think that there is, all of sudden, a candidate above and beyond the usual of politics, is naive.
August 1, 2008 at 10:00 pm #632970
AnonymousInactiveDemocrats are largely pro union and anti outsourcing. Interesting….
August 1, 2008 at 10:03 pm #632971
AnonymousInactiveAgain, the weekend/8 hour day (as JenV) mentions, came about in 1869 when the Knights of Labor formed in the U.S.
As wsblover stated, there was a time and place for unions. Today they can be seen as responsible for a lot more (and not a lot of it is good).
August 1, 2008 at 10:04 pm #632972
AnonymousInactiveAmen NR. I remember House from the pre board days. He sure does like to scrap :) I saw him quoting Newt one day. I have some autographed copies of “To Renew America” that I was going to bring him at the meet up if I ever go. I have extra copies of that book, plus signed editions of Dan Q’s books, and Colin Powell, etc. I got them all in person but they are just collecting dust :) Maybe I’ll bring some books or a bottle of wine for ya.
August 1, 2008 at 10:08 pm #632973
AnonymousInactivewsblover – My two favorite things: books and wine!
August 1, 2008 at 10:12 pm #632974
JenVMemberand you have to wonder why the Repugs are so anti-union. More money in the corporate pocket, more power. god forbid the people should have a voice, or make decent pay.
August 1, 2008 at 10:17 pm #632975
JenVMemberAugust 1, 2008 at 10:19 pm #632976
AnonymousInactiveSeveral major companies are extremely successful WITHOUT being unionized.
http://www.airlinesafety.com/Unions/SkywestNonUnionAirline.htm
August 1, 2008 at 10:20 pm #632977
AnonymousInactiveJenV – LOL!
August 1, 2008 at 10:29 pm #632978
AnonymousInactiveLook forward to meeting you NR! Jen I look forward to meeting you one day too. We’ll have to agree to disagree about unions. I’m not in one and am doing great financially. I am blessed with an education, family, house, 2 cars, etc. I know it’s not for everyone and that is ok.
That was funny about Dan. He did make a mistake and paid dearly for trusting the spelling of the person who gave him the index cards for the spelling bee at the school.
August 1, 2008 at 10:31 pm #632979
AnonymousInactiveGotta run. Might be on later. Have a good weekend everyone, no matter your political affiliation. :)
August 1, 2008 at 10:34 pm #632980
JenVMembereveryone I know who is in a union is also “blessed” with an education, a family and a house. the two are not mutually exclusive.
August 1, 2008 at 10:44 pm #632981
AnonymousInactiveLater, wsblover.
I guess the debate got somewhat off track.
I think, for the business in the article to educate its employees (regardless of which slant it takes), is not at all sleazy.
This, to me, is no more sleazy than all the crap I get encouraging me (at times with the use of scare tactics) to vote Democrat.
August 1, 2008 at 11:14 pm #632982
ZenguyParticipantI am not a union fan, although I think they have their place. I agree there are many very sucessful companies that are non-union and many of them are right here in the NorthWest.
I am not a fan of my employer or any other group that may unfairly influence me (union, church etc.) telling me who or what they support. Offering me ALL the options in the form of information and allowing me to make up my own mind is a better way to go.
August 2, 2008 at 2:30 am #632983
JoBParticipantNewResident…
it is illegal for a business to “educate” it’s hourly employees about how to vote…
and the supervisors they “educated” were hourly employees.
it is however, quite legal for your union to do so.
If you don’t like the law.. you should change it.
If you don’t think your union does enough for you, you should let them know. after all, that’s what they’re there for.
And JenV is right. without unions you would be working 60+ hours a week… 7 days a week.. at minimum wage… with no overtime and no holidays… and with no benefits.. because that’s what unionizing did for workers.
those workers who currently get those benefits without a union can thank the unionized shops for creating a labor market that demands companies offer benefits to keep employees…
and the law which mandates companies of a certain size employing workers full time offer benefits.
and for that.. i am not sure whether you can thank democrats or republicans.. because republicans used to actually stand up somewhat for workers… but for our current minimum wage and all of the loopholes in providing benefits, i am certain you can thank the current republican party.
Take a look at your own industry New Resident. There was time when even a flight attendant was paid well and had work protection… thanks to the unions.
Not so much now.
August 2, 2008 at 2:37 am #632984
AnonymousInactiveJoB – I sincerely respect your opinion.
You don’t know what I know regarding this issue (even though you were once a flight attendant, from what I understand).
I’m not comfortable talking about what I know (at least any personal knowledge I have)on a public forum, so we will have to leave it at that.
And, maybe, just that will tell you enough about unions.
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