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October 17, 2012 at 12:56 pm #605220
redblackParticipantwow. the politics forums are eerily silent this morning.
what was obvious to me from the word “go” is that romney has a superiority complex, that he’s somewhere between a swaggering bully and a petulant brat, that he’s not used to being denied, and that he hasn’t a shred of respect for barack hussein obama – who, like it or not, is the president of the untied states.
oh! and how many times did he say, “i know how to do [x, y, or z]?” but he won’t divulge any of his keen corporate raider knowledge or skills to the rest of us.
romney: he’ll tell any lie for a government paycheck.
October 17, 2012 at 1:17 pm #774053
JanSParticipantdontcha know..the gov’t. doesn’t create jobs…except maybe the one Mitt wants
October 17, 2012 at 1:22 pm #774054
SmittyParticipantSadly, I was at a work function, but it sounds like the President did MUCH better than the last debate.
When one side or the other complains about the moderator (as I have seen this morning) that is usually your first clue as to who won the debate.
This will come down to the wire!
October 17, 2012 at 1:40 pm #774055
miwsParticipantI missed it last night, due to a Doctors appt, and have not yet seen any video clips of it.
However, all the rage on Face Book last night was how the President basically pwned Romney.
One FB friend talked about Romney’s demeanor in a way that I don’t exactly recall right now, but I made the comment they had probably used the Mittatron 2012, built by a robotics firm in which Bain Capital has heavily invested. (I almost unintentionally typed “infested”. Seriously!)
Eagerly awaiting kootch’s latest comments on the Romney Renaissance!
Mike
October 17, 2012 at 2:14 pm #774056
kayoParticipantThe best part were the great questions asked by the folks in the audience. Loved the questions about women and equal pay. Obama nailed that one and Romney went on some weird rambling answer about how he tried to hire binders full of women for his administration in Massachusetts. I especially loved how during the rebuttal for this, Obama talked about access to contraception as an economic issue for women and the middle class. Yes, being able to decide the size of your family IS an economic issue, thank you very much. Spot on. I also loved the questions about what would happen to deductions which largely impact the middle class under Romney’s tax plan and which Romney largely evaded answering. (at one point he basically said his plan was too complicated to explain to regular folks and we would just have to trust his amazing business acumen and history of balancing budgets). My other favorite question was how is Romney different from GWB. Loved that one. Great question and again there were some interesting evasive maneuvers on Romney’s part and Obama nailed him on the social issues (ie Romney is much farther to the right on social issues than even GWB). All in all, I thought Obama was more clear and concise in his responses and much feistier than the previous debate. The questioners were probably the clearest winner for me – great questions all around.
October 17, 2012 at 2:20 pm #774057
JoBParticipantOctober 17, 2012 at 3:57 pm #774058
NFiorentiniMemberPretending for a moment that I don’t follow politics closely, news and current events, and that my grasp of reality is tenuous…I felt that Rmoney’s performance was outstanding in the first debate. However, last night, I thought that he crossed the line that separates being forceful and passionate to outright disrespectful of the office.
Yes, Rmoney was debating a candidate for the Presidency; but that person is also the current President of the United States. There was a point last night where Obama got off his stool and Rmoney extended his arm and hand, motioning for Obama to sit back down (which he didn’t, thankfully).
I don’t think that’s going to sit well for some conservatives and Rmoney needs to be careful about over-doing his routine.
Also…
On the question about women’s equality, Obama made Rmoney look silly (“binders full o’ women” vs. the Lily Ledbetter Act). Obama also scored some nice points regarding immigration when he pointed out that Rmoney’s immigration adviser (Kris Kobach) helped design Arizona’s draconian law. I also liked the fact that Obama made mention that many of Rmoney’s advisers and potential cabinet members will be retreads from Bush’s administration. That point can’t be overstated.
I thought Obama also won the discussions of the economy, but I do wish that he’d hammer home the obstructions that he has faced with GOPers in the House and Senate. The Republicans have been in engaged in obstructionism since Obama’s first month in office, and their plan has always been to campaign on the resulting lack of progress and economic recovery.
That said, I was not satisfied with Obama’s statements about the attack on our embassy in Libya and “Fast and Furious.” He also takes far too much credit on getting the US out of Iraq. The armistice treaty which called for American withdrawal from Iraq was signed by George W. Bush (remember when the Iraqi “journalist” threw his shoe at Dubya?). All the Obama administration has done is abide by that plan.
And we still don’t understand how Rmoney is going to cut everyone’s taxes, increase military spending, get us directly involved in one or two more wars, and still bring down the budget deficit. Apparently his advisers are magicians and not economists.
October 17, 2012 at 4:43 pm #774059
DBPMember>>romney: he’ll tell any lie for a government paycheck.
“Government paycheck”? Oh, pleez. Why would anyone even take such a suckie job, regardless of the pay? You’d have to be a masochist of truly epic proportions . . .
For Romney, I’m not sure whether it’s really about the job or about making the President look bad. If he just wants to make the President look bad all he has to do is throw the election and keep on sniping from the sidelines.
On the other hand, maybe that’s what Romney’s trying to do: throw the election. His comments on Libya made him look really bad last night, especially among independents.
For his part, the President took it like a man.
October 17, 2012 at 5:37 pm #774060
WorldCitizenParticipantOverall It’s safe to say Obama crushed Romney last night. That said, he did fall VERY short on two points:
1)What about that addressing immigration reform in your first year? It did not happen Mr. President, and you clumsily sidestepped that very obvious missed pledge.
2) Speaking on the equality of women in the workplace. That was a major opportunity to speak to specific points for improving workplace and pay equality.
These things (In my opinion) should never be sidestepped, but adressed directly. Obama looked most respectable last night when he said he takes responsibility for what happened with our ambassador and his assassination. He owned the issue and made it a fact of life of foreign service in hostile areas. He showed sincere remorse for the loss of life and the failings of protection. It did not make him look weak, but rather like a real man with an important job that extends beyond the realm of campaigning. I feel like this approach can work with almost all areas of public life. Mistakes happen to us all. How are you going to rectify them?
He could have stood up there and given us concrete reasons why immigration was not addressed when he said it was going to be. He could have stood up there and given us specific ways he will fight for income equality. But, sadly, he didn’t, and now I’m left with a feeling that he has no answer or sincere interest in making those changes.
Oh, and Mitt still hasn’t actually said anything specific about what he’ll do. How do people give him a pass on this?
October 17, 2012 at 5:52 pm #774061
miwsParticipantSince my earlier posting, I saw a couple or so clips of the debate, on the morning news.
I was impressed with how forceful the President appeared in this debate. He stood up to the bully this time.
Back to redblack’s point, in the opening line of his OP; I would have expected a comment by kootch, by now, considering he’s posted on other threads this morning, but all I hear is crickets coming from his corner.
Mike
October 17, 2012 at 6:46 pm #774062
JoBParticipantWorldcitizen..
we are never going to get the kind of substance we need in debates that are run by a private company that allows the debaters to set several pages of groundrules and offer a contract that prevents them from participating in outside debates…
we need the league of women voters back
October 17, 2012 at 7:01 pm #774063
clark5080ParticipantPersonally I could care less who all of you think won. This debate was not going to change your mind at all. I don’t think any of you who have commented would vote for Romney anyway you are locked into Obama. Now if someone who is seriously undecided would post that would be worth while to read.
October 17, 2012 at 7:31 pm #774064
KenParticipantAnyone who is really undecided at this point may or may not have enough sense to admit it to their neighbors. It will be interesting to see.
I suspect a “troll” or “devils advocate” might appear but no one who really cannot see the difference between these two candidates.
October 17, 2012 at 7:53 pm #774065
cjboffoliParticipantI thought this video was interesting:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/17/who-won-last-nights-debate-kimmel_n_1973204.html
The Jimmy Kimmel show went out and did some man-on-the-street interviews in to gauge reactions to the second debate. The only thing is that the debate hadn’t happened yet at the time these interviews were done. So among other things it suggests that people will automatically call a winner based on who they’re already voting for and/or that people on the street in Los Angeles have absolutely no qualms about lying to get themselves on network TV.
October 17, 2012 at 7:56 pm #774066
kootchmanMemberHe didn’t gain ground. Jubba Crowley had to throw him a life line. Equal pay.. a myth, even debunked by the US census bureau .. one of those tired, well worn, overused liberal lines. Fact: women with degrees out earn men similarly degreed in 22 of the largest 25 MSI. It’s tough to solve a problem we don’t have. There is a lingering pay discrepancy. men and women who do the exact same job, and work the same hours, have a differential of about 5%. In professions where negotiating salaries is common, there is more variability. In wages for production units, (factory, assembly, unskilled, etc) there is almost none.
But, as it so happens, more women have lost jobs and seen incomes decline than men in the “Obama” years… 520,000 more women lost jobs than men. Particularly hard hit, have been single wage earning women with children who are absorbing the inflations in food and fuel prices.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/12319/6-myths-about-income-inequality-in-america
It’s hard to “explain” economics to a largely dry subject that is not well studied by the electorate. But we try. The positing of the question proved the case. She might as well asked what their plans were to stop the aliens from outer space invasion.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/12319/6-myths-about-income-inequality-in-america
If one were to actually look at true data… the myth is exposed. In the words of Elaine … gender income disparity is in the yadda yadda yadda category of liberal politics. The facts are, Romneys current surge is derived almost solely from… gasp!! Ready? Professional women. They are voting economic issues. In that regard, Romney leads Obama in every survey as more capable and able to lead economy. Smart women with high skillsets that are in demand .. no surprise are voting republican. At rough parity with their percentage of population. The Obama lead with women has vaporized. It no longer exists.
As with so many fabricated “wedge” issues.. chanting louder or more frequently does not make it so. Ms. Ledbetter got hosed.. no question. But that does not make wage disparity an epidemic in need of a massive social engineering open heart surgery. The more rational discussion..
http://dailycaller.com/2012/04/30/different-pay-for-different-work/
October 17, 2012 at 8:07 pm #774067
DBPMemberDid you notice how candidates often take pains to declare that there are big differences between themselves and the other guy? Why do they do that, do you suppose? Could it be because they know that lots of people don’t really think there are differences?
For many voters, it’s not so much a question of whether they see a difference between the candidates; it’s a question of whether they think that difference is significant, or whether it affects them personally.
Take insurance coverage for contraceptives, for example. Yes, there is a difference between the presidential candidates on that, but how important is that to the average undecided voter, really? I can see that one as a tiebreaker, maybe, but that’s all.
Or take “green jobs”. Have there been enough of those created to lift large numbers of voters out of poverty?
Defense spending? Considering that we pay for our wars – like just about everything else these days – on credit cards, why would the average undecided voter even care whether there’s a few billion dollars’ worth of difference between the candidates on this? It’s not going to affect their disposable income one way or the other.
These are the kinds of things the candidates talked about last night, but there’s really not that much difference between them on these points, so, in the end most voters, including most “independents,” will have to make up their minds based on their emotional perceptions of the candidates. Things like: Which of these guys makes me feel better about the future? or Which one of these guys reminds me most of myself, or the person I WANNA be?
October 17, 2012 at 8:11 pm #774068
JanSParticipantKMan,can you even carry on a civil discussion anymore? How offensive do you mean to be on here? Jubba Crowley? Effing kills any credibility you might have on here. Who the hell made you judge and jury, anyway. She was great, and her weight has nothing to do with how she carried herself last night. Can’t come on here and say you thought Romney was great, so you make personal comments about the female moderator. WOW!
Being a man, what the f*c% do you know about female gender equality? I suppose we should all just feel that the prefesser has spoken, set us straight, and the citizen who asked the question was planned, set up, to be inserted when she was…what a joke!
October 17, 2012 at 8:17 pm #774069
JanSParticipantDBP…maybe those things don’t matter to you…they speak volumes to many of us…
October 17, 2012 at 8:24 pm #774070
dobroParticipant“He didn’t gain ground. Jubba Crowley had to throw him a life line. Equal pay.. a myth,”
Funny how two people can look at the same event and see completely different things. Obama kicked Mittsy from here to next Tuesday. Most observers agree with that.
Love the disrespectful namecalling of Ms Crowley tho. Misogeny seems to be a standard part of the right wing mindset. Mitt cares so much about women he lets his female employees go home early so they can fix dinner for the kids and clean up the house. That is, the few female employees he chooses from his binders full of women.The binders that he lied about asking for. He was actually given those binders by women’s organizations upon becoming governor because they were advocating for more women in his old boy network governing cabal. And, for some reason, when he was at Bain he didn’t seem to have any binders full of women, cuz there were no female partners there in the 80s and 90s when he was the admitted head of the joint. The dude will lie about anything.
There’s gonna be some sad wingers around here on Nov 7.
October 17, 2012 at 8:25 pm #774071
kootchmanMemberI would take “some” exception to that. I do not have a half dozen kids. I certainly have performed the act that would have led to that outcome. It would be safe to assume birth control is practiced here. And, one of us is a Catholic. However, I would not vote for any presidential candidate that trampled underfoot the rights of conscience and religion to mandate birth control coverage. If you don’t like the terms offered by your employer, work elsewhere.
DBP… do you really, honestly think that Mitt Romney has a prayer in hell of discussing substantive issues? The voting public would digest and evaluate the merits of “quantitative easing” and the effect on their disposable income, the effect on fixed income retirees, the models of inflationary outcomes? No way. Circus Maxmus says…. promise more college loans for everyone and loan forgiveness… let’s not look to the reasons the costs of education exceed the rate of inflation of even healthcare.
Look at the level of the questions posed… that’s the level of debate. Would it make a whit of difference to state the obvious? If we continue to spend as are, we will have to continue to borrow, the economy is not large enough to sustain the spending. Even if you managed to gore the 5% who pay 60% of the total taxes.. the satisfaction will not achieve the result.
Maybe it has to be so. Vague, and nebulus and lack of specificity. Any other way, and every lobbying machine forwarned will descend from “K” street, Wall Street, Union offices, and ramp up the exceptions and carve outs. I am warming up to the idea of a maximun deduction on personal income, even a progressive one. I could live with a cap on home mortgage deductions after 500K. Telegraph that to the National Association of Homebuilders…. see how far it gets.
October 17, 2012 at 8:49 pm #774072
skeeterParticipantI’m still undecided for president. I’ll admit it.
I lean toward the right, that’s for sure. But there are a couple things I agree more with Obama on – raising taxes on the highest earners to help reduce our deficit and support for the Palestinians. So that’s why I’m still undecided.
Part of me is getting old and cynical, though. I vote in Washington State – so while my vote does “count” I don’t see it as making a difference. I didn’t see the debate last night. I had my hands full with a toddler.
October 17, 2012 at 8:49 pm #774073
kootchmanMemberNo Dobro.. Mitt did fine with his base.. Obama did fine with his base… and the news sources pretty much confirm it.. MSNBC gushed and FOX fawned. Biden Lite thrilled the liberals and democrats. The polls will tell. And what makes you think Jan you have exclusive and proprietary knowledge about gender inequality? what rubbish. I suppose then we should exclude women from any commentary regarding the other 50% of the population right? I mean what the hell do they know about mens’s issues. Now interesting, is the Lt. Governor who actually worked for Mitt, who knows him, was part of his inner circel was interviewed and she extolled his virtues as a mentor to women and she was the one that helped him review the resumes in the binder… the research arm of the State University of NY in Albany cited his governorship as one of the most equal opportunity administrations in the country. Go figure.
October 17, 2012 at 8:58 pm #774074
kootchmanMemberYea skeeter… if it worked..but it won’t. If you took the top 10 per cent to 90% of their total income… you would run the federal government for 3 months. That’s 9 more months of borrowing, let alone reduction of the deficit. The pie needs to get bigger, and that means growth. Businesses and companies grow out of earnings. Not from taxes. Economies expand with private sector employees.
October 17, 2012 at 9:02 pm #774075
NFiorentiniMemberMeet Rmoney’s economic adviser … the ethically-challenged, political-hack-parading-as-economic scientist R. Glenn Hubbard. If you’ve seen “Inside Job,” then you’ve already met this slime ball…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CaXNqGgIc-g
R. Glenn Hubbard was chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under President George W. Bush. So, when President Obama alluded to Rmoney’s campaign including a lot of Bush Era (or Error) folks, here’s one example.
In other words, if you liked Dubya…you’re gonna love Rmoney!
October 17, 2012 at 9:06 pm #774076
sb in wsMemberKootchman: “I would not vote for any presidential candidate that trampled underfoot the rights of conscience and religion to mandate birth control coverage. If you don’t like the terms offered by your employer, work elsewhere”. Wow you sound just like Romney. Didn’t Romney say something about how students should just get money from their parents if there are no Pell grants? Total lack of regard for people. Sounds just like you.
The fact is that Obama was the one that signed the Lilly Ledbetter act that will help women. Romney opposed it and would have not signed anything like that if he were president.
As a women I am tired of hearing Romney go on and on with the lies. The same goes for you.
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