Rant: seattle summer streets

[JanS]

am I reading all of this wrong? aren’t we discussing inconvenience? whether it’s in your front yard, or around the stadium, inconvenience is inconvenience. It sounds like you aren’t very tolerant of people who disagree with you, and resort to sarcasm, insults and put downs. That gets you no where. Are you saying that JoB and her hubby should move to belltown so as not to be inconvenienced by the ballgames? It’s more than just a metro problem there…it’s a people coming in cars problem holding up all traffic. It can’t be avoided…so maybe you should stop being offensive?

I don’t go to Alki much…I live in the Admiral District…you won’t see me at Alki Community Council meetings…I’m a member of my own community group…but you really need to stop with the complaining, and roll up your sleeves, get active, and make a difference for next year. You obviously feel strongly about this…so get involved !

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[tsunaminw]

You say I am being offensive, exactly what part of the response was offensive. I do not see a similarity at all and can copy and paste again if you want it broken down.

Games bring money to the city and all businesses surrounding the stadium from restaurants to taxicabs. I am friends with the owners of a well known bar on Occidental(mentioned already, broken record here) and the survive specifically because of games. It is also downtown. If the issue is bus service and buses being full thats a metro issue not a mariners issue.

And again, broken record, they dont have a huge bike path and boardwalk right next to the street while they close the streets for walkers and bikers. Do you really need me to repeat all the other points to explain why these are not the same? It isnt even a residential area, yes you have some condos but I lived in Belltown and most people work downtown and either walk or bus even if they own a car. And they go to games, one of the reasons for moving there in the first place, it is expected.

I never said move, not once. I said if it a bus issue then talk to Metro. If they need more parking, then whoever is in charge, talk to them about that.

But the games are a big source of revenue for the city, and unless you moved there before the city had a team you had a little idea of what you were in for whether you moved downtown, or work there.

And again, they have no bike path and boardwalk while trying to close the road to cars.

Its really simple, sorry if your offended. Im not sure how to say it nicer, be more clear, or repeat the same exact points without sounding repetitive.

If that offends you, stop reading.

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[tsunaminw]

And yes, the idea of games at rush hour makes no sense to me either, but either does a game at 2 in the afternoon when people work. If I were affected by it as much as she I would be working on a solution for that, but Im not. Im here. This is a rant column. This thread could have died right after I posted, it has continued because people responded, positive and negative. At any point you dont like it, stop posting and it will move down the list until it is gone.

I would have left the rant post to one shot otherwise and said my opinion if only to draw attention to it so others would watch it, see the issues, and decide themselves if it were real or just whining.

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[Cait]

Jan, you aren’t saying what Tsunami wants to hear. Therefore you are wrong. Just to warn you. LOL.

I can’t believe how out of control this got. Seriously. And so quickly. Tsunami you’re not even listening and if you are you’re not comprehending and on the off chance that you are, you’re not being very neighborly in your language or attitude. If you like the idea of closing the beach – more power to you, enjoy the day. If you don’t like it – do something about it. But keep in mind it’s only one day. Why don’t you spend your energy getting this belligerent over things that matter on a longer term and are ACTUAL injustices.

Is it doing ANYTHING for the environment? No. Likely not, in the big picture. Is it inconvenient? Yes. So are a lot of things in West Seattle. Put it on the list of things to complain about and pin it on Mayor Nickles. Same old song and dance. And I’d recommend finding out the person ACTUALLY responsible for this as I’m fairly certain Nickles had precious little to do with it… you know… seeing that he’s so busy screwing up about every other area of life in West Seattle. Right?

I would have complained right along with you about 5 posts in because yes, I think it is just hippie pandering on the part of politicians, it’s not fair to people living on the beach and the elderly are especially effected. But good lord… get some perspective here! One. Day. You’ll live. I promise.

Just be lucky you live here and not somewhere where you’d be dealing with real problems in relation to your neighborhood and where there’s no forum for the petty passive aggressiveness you feel and where the politicians don’t even TRY to act like they’re interested. It happens.

See ya’ll on the beach. I’m not letting that stop me from people watching and fish ‘n’ chips, dang it!!!

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[tsunaminw]

Whether I will live is not the issue. Being lucky to live here is also not the issue. The inconvenience is not the issue. Being only one day is not the issue.

Any belligerence is due to people who bring up things that have zero to do with it and are not the issue, when it stops I am happy to do the same. Belligerence begins when people want to brush over something has affects some people in a negative way and just say “oh you will live, grow up, get over it, its just one day, be thankful you have a place to lie, it isnt Iraq, etc. Makes me want to throw up hearing all this pandering crap so as to make nice and just suck it up.

Sorry, not gonna.

It is my rant, my post, and I will say what I wish and be here all day so again if you dont like what I say or how I say it then find another thread to post on. Im not going anywhere.

It is a public forum, I have not told anyone to leave, and if they respond I will answer. Simple as that.

Feel free to go to another thread if you prefer, but do not assume I will change what I say to make everyone happy.

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[FullTilt]

This is just one day. Really, there needs to be some perspective here. Sure it is not going to save the world, but it is going to make business on Alki money. That is complete BS that it hurts business. Any street fair like this is great for business.

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[tsunaminw]

It isnt bs at all that it hurt business, unless your calling me and the business owners themselves liars.

It did, and feel free to ask them if your down here, but It is probably easier to just throw out that it is bs without really knowing.

It is just one day, I have heard that alot and my response is again going to be belligerent.

“That isnt the issue that it is just one day.”

I know, Im so mean. Im a big meanie. grrrrrrrr.

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[Cait]

LOL whoa now. All those things are perfectly valid points and I don’t see how they aren’t relevant or “on issue.” They definitely are. Just because we’re not sitting here and giving you MORE justification to be angry doesn’t mean we’re not talking about the same thing. The “straying from the topic” won’t stop because it never started in the friggin’ first place…

If you’re going to be camping out, why don’t you give us an example of what you’re fishing for here? I’m not going to pick up the battering ram and torches with you so I’m wondering what exactly you’re looking for in terms of sympathy/opinions, etc. It’s obviously a very specific thing… I feel like I’m playing “hot and cold” trying to find an Easter egg or something here.

And I think you may be misunderstanding something here – a forum is PUBLIC meaning that nothing here is yours to control, unless of course you are TR and you devote your life to refereeing piddly ass fights and paying for this domain name (props, by the way TR.) The world would be a far different place if people were forced to stay on one VERY specific topic (something I’m not entirely sure you’re entitled to demand here or elsewhere, you know, being a member of a democratic society where *GASP* other people’s opinions matter no matter how off the mark they are.)

I don’t need you to go anywhere, just to be clear. I honestly don’t know what the heck you’re doing here. I don’t even think you’re beating a dead horse, I think you’re just in denial that there’s a horse here to begin with. The “horse” being the fact that people have valuable, valid on-topic feedback.

I think there’s much more to discuss if you weren’t so busy policing the responses. Dismissal and censorship of opinions contrary to your own is also an early marker of a weak argument.

That being said – I’ll live with Alki being blocked off for a day but they better not get any wild hairs to do it more often.

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[Cait]

OH and BTW – Full Tilt IS a small business. And TR asked for comments from business owners who suffered last year during the festivities. So far… nada. Moot point. Next.

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[FullTilt]

tsunaminw I am not calling you anything, you are doing a pretty good job at convincing people you are though. Name one business that you know that did not do well. Instead of just ranting and raving and running around on sphincter level 10, give an example.

Alki tattoo…did great.

The Swell.. an amazing day

Smoothy stand….gang busters

The Market…guess how they did. Just take a wild guess.

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[tsunaminw]

Why not try to stop figuring it out and talk about how it affects business, why there is a need to have residents move when they wouldnt otherwise, so we can allow the event when a perfectly good boardwalk and bike path exists already.

That is why I posted. You dont need to figure me out, or approve of my delivery method.

And I know you like to play therapist, but this is a rant. One issue, during a few days off I have and it pissed me off.

Assuming I am angry, unappreciative for living here etc. is easy I guess but far from the big picture. I can think of 1000 things good around me, this just happens to be one that does not and it is in the Rant comumn. If you dont like it, find another thread that makes you happy.

If you want to go off topic again, then let’s do so.

Id like to figure out why you and others need to keep coming back if you disagree so much. Do you have a need to fix people? Are you drawn to people who complain because you get to feel needed by helping out and making peace? I dont even care about the answers, you know why?

Because it isn’t,,,,,,get ready,,,, the point.

Meantime I will sit here on my deck, with my beer and buffalo shrimp and watch the girls play a few more games of volleyball and be thankful I live on Alki.

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[tsunaminw]

The market did poorly, I speak Korean and Yong said so very clearly. Feel free to ask him.

If you are really interested, talk to the business owners yourself. I think speaking for them on their behalf without permission is a little off base, but have no issue telling you what they said and have no reason to make it up. I want these businesses to do well, I love having them here and do my best to support them all, even if I pay more to do so.

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[Cait]

I am about as interested in figuring out your psyche as I am drilling a hole in my skull. The issues you JUST brought up have been addressed multiple times… but I’ll throw my hat in the ring. Why not.

Businesses will likely do very well, as Full Tilt argued. I see you talked to one person. Excellent. Others were asked to come forward and haven’t which leads me to believe that there wasn’t a whole lot of harm done last year – (and many Alki businesses are very active on here so it’s not from lack of outreach.) If they do poorly even after much evidence to the contrary (as brought up by Full Tilt) then I wonder how that compares to the 9 months of absolutely CRAPPY weather we get here every year that keeps people away from the beach in DROVES? It will likely be a wash – people won’t have access to the beach and won’t come because it’s inconvenient. But because there will be limited access, there will be people coming in who normally stray away from the beach due to crowds. So like I said, logic would tell us that this will be a wash. And if you love the beach enough you’ll come anyway. (Hearkening back to AdamonAlki’s “punch card” idea of yore)

Having residents move when they shouldn’t – counterproductive. You’re right. But people can handle moving for one day. Ain’t fair and it ain’t good for the environment but I think we’ve figured out that this event is doing VERY little for the environment anyway. This is about the only inconvenience I can see, but people were warned 4 months in advance so I’m sure sacrifices will be made and they will be well planned for. Having to move your car one day a year – that’s what you get in exchange for that gorgeous view… there are worse deals. But overall I’m with you there – it’s stupid but it’s not something to get so worked up about. I certainly hope that those effected have complained (and not just on the blog, but you know, to the people responsible… hint… it’s not Greg Nickles.) I know! NOW who do we make the scapegoat??? Panic one and all!!!

I think that’s about as on topic as we can get around here. If you don’t think that’s on topic, you may have to go somewhere else for whatever you’re looking for. Not that I want you to have to look elsewhere, but if you’re not getting what you’re looking for here I’m hoping that you’re not just beating the dead horse for our sake and that you’re actually getting support somewhere. The people that actually live here though don’t seem to have a HUGE problem with it over all, including the businesses you’re citing. I was down there last year and I sure as hell didn’t see them suffering.

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[tsunaminw]

Can they handle it for one day? Yes.

Should they have to? No.

And that isnt the point.

And I have mentioned talking directly to 4 owners, not just aquaintences but friends. I only gave one name because it was brought up. The others can speak for themselves. Which they did when telling me, if they need to go further then fine but these were unsolicited comments brought up in a “Hey, what do you think of all these signs, this event etc?” to me as I walked in or past. This was before they knew my opinion.

Now they know I have plenty of my own and knew I would say how I felt, but did not know my particular stand on this issue. They were curious, because I live here and support most events here. I go to all of them whenever possible.

This particular event was different, the crowd was different, and no you cant just say “they will do fine”, because they didn’t.

It is easy to question me, but if your really wanting answers ask them for yourself. Ask more than 1 too.

This does not affect me directly, merely an annoyance. You can pick apart any one issue maybe, but I see it as a string of them and it makes me start asking why is this necessary, even if for one day.

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[tsunaminw]

I will be getting involved to ask these questions to people who have answers and some say over how things are done.

I will also continue to encourage people to say something when it hurts their business.

But we all know that most are lazy and will say when it hurts but wont take the next step of doing something about it.

And there are a few who will, on behalf of the others.

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[Jo]

Well, folks, I live a block off the beach and had a great time last year.

It was fun to see families playing together, biking, roller blading, or just strolling along. Big, wide smiles everywhere. Chatted with neighbors that I hadn’t seen for awhile. Sat on a bench and just people watched. Saw every breed of dog imaginable. Had lunch at Sunfish, got an ice cream cone at Pepperdocks.

It doesn’t have to be a problem getting here. Park in the Admiral District or the West Seattle Junction and grab the Water Taxi Shuttle (free). It will be running all along Alki all day long. The schedule and route is online if you need to know how often and where it runs. (JoB, the shuttle is handicap accessible).

Also, the #56 runs from the Admiral District down Admiral Way to the beach. This runs only once a hour, however, so isn’t as convenient as the Water Taxi Shuttle.

Come on down and enjoy the most beautiful place in Seattle.

Hoping to see you.

Jo Ofsthus

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[Cait]

I just find it strange that the businesses were packed that day and that Full Tilt offered up some specifics of people who did well that day. If I frequented Alki I’d ask myself (I’m in the it’s-busy-and-parking-is-awful-so-I-won’t-go camp), but it looks like TR is taking up that task ably and subjectively. I’ll be waiting what she has to say and if I get the chance I’ll ask myself. But from what I saw last year things were pretty good.

“I shouldn’t have to put up with this” being the catch phrase of the NIMBYs is something I don’t buy. I shouldn’t HAVE to put up with people breaking into my car. I shouldn’t HAVE to deal with loud neighborly domestic disputes at 3am. I shouldn’t have to watch kids toting guns in my parking lot. But I do… some things come with the territory. I’ll trade my pile of crap with your pile of crap! Oh wait… not on topic… you don’t like the perspective argument. But then again I explicitly agreed with you that it was unfair and that wasn’t noticed so maybe I can slip that one under the radar too.

I hope you get those people who had a problem with the street fair last year to speak up. I’m just saying it’s a pretty bold point you’re harping on when none of them have come forward as of yet on THIS forum, seems they are only talking to you. I hope they do come forward though one way or another. But until they do I think it’s pretty weak to cite your sources as more valid than the experience of those who SAW business booming last year and similar statements by Full Tilt. Like I said, you’re statement doesn’t have more weight just because you started the thread – there is contrary evidence. Until I hear otherwise I’m going by what I saw, not what you claim to have heard. I won’t quote Marvin Gaye here though it’s tempting…

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[Cait]

BTW I don’t see how this is any different than the parking-limited Junction Street Fair that happens every year for an entire weekend. And if you even THINK about getting into one of those restaurants without a reservation during that time, you’re dreaming. Businesses do a HUGE business and everyone has fun. Why would Alki be any different?

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[tsunaminw]

Comparing this event and the unnecessary negatives that go along with it to getting your car broken into is just silly, are you saying they are equally damaging?

When something can be done better or elsewhere to decrease something negative, comparing it to these things you mention proves what exactly?

I dont need to prove anything, I wasnt going to court. I was posting a rant.

You can decide that because you see differently that what I was told just isn’t true(maybe they lied, maybe its a conspiracy, maybe Dick Cheney and Halliburton is behind it). It was true, I heard it from multiple people.

Because thay aren’t blogging about it hardly makes it untrue. The percentage of people who do so is very few, and I lived here for 5 years but just discovered this forum a year ago. Age is also a factor. Language is another. Try and think of the people who own these shops here, know how many use english as a second language?

Lets see, smoothie shop owner is cambodian, sunfish owner is greek, Christos greek, Urban market korean, Dry cleaners chinese, and the list goes on.

It is different because when a business does a model, the draw a big circle around it as their potential demographic.

If your on the water, guess what? That circle is a half circle. Add the fact that it is seasonal.

It had the effect it did, whether you deny it or not. I didn’t decide to hate the event ahead of time for no reason. It started with me waking up and thinking cool, another event. Then my neighbors who had come back to town and had no off street parking and are close to 70 couldnt park by their home so I had to help them with 3 trips to the car with luggage, 2 blocks away.

The a walk down the beach watching people walk and ride down the street, while looking at a nice boardwalk next to it.

Then the business owners started talking to me.

It painted a picture.

Some of you have your minds made up regardless of the facts, not unexpected.

Some may do a little digging and check around, look a little closer, ask some questions, and maybe find some solutions that make this less negative for those affected.

And for those who dont live here but have a ton of opinions anyway, Im sure you wont do any of that but will support anything because it sounds cool. Thats your right.

It is different from the street fair for the reasons mentioned above including they do not have an existing boardwalk(I know I mentioned this already at some point) and the businesses have more steady business throughout the year. The beach, is seasonal.

I will be encouraging those I spoke to to speak out, and they can get the same reaction I got here. Denial and “get over it, its just one day”.

But at least I will be able to say I did so, even if it does nothing. Um, kindof like this event.

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[JoB]

tsunaminw…

have you noticed that a marathon is included in this year’s events?

do you think that might affect the need for more access on the street.. and therefore generate a request to move cars?

do you think that might bring more people into the area earlier in the day who might be inclined to eat and drink on Alki before they trek home..

I will be very surprised if businesses on Alki don’t do a bumper business this time. There is a marathon. It will be hot. Those two things alone would bring crowds to the beach… add an event and things will be very busy there.

as for similarities in inconvenience, it is evident that you have never tried to get from pioneer square to west seattle during the evening commute on game day.

it’s not just that the buses are full of people going to or from the stadium… it’s that the traffic is so jammed by cars trying to park or trying to leave the stadium that even full buses can’t move.

since the buses use 1st avenue and 4th avenue.. the two most affected streets.. as major conduits going through downtown.. it creates major problems.

even calling a cab isn’t much of an option… or calling for a ride even if he walks to the waterfront.

working late.. very late… is the only alternative…

how late would you think it reasonable to have to work on every game night?

but of course, nothing is like the inconvenience you are about to be subjected to because you chose to live down on the beach in the summertime tourist mecca of West Seattle and no-one else could possibly know whether this event is or isn’t good for business and no comment anyone could make would possibly be relevant.

nuff said.. by me anyway.

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[JoB]

tsunaminw…

thanks for clearing the inbox…

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[mom2soren]

I understand the OP’s complaint. I would hate to have to move my car for a superficial one-day car free event, too.

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[JanS]

Sunday weather report…partly cloudy and 77…anyone wanna take bets that the beach is PACKED…and all those people will bring money, need food and drink, and will spend said money…just sayin’

I think this year may be different than last year, when it was in September, the weather was not as good…

just sayin’ :)

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[WSB]

Actually last year the weather was spectacular. And a lot of people were at the beach. I’m still waiting for a business that actually suffered last year to come forward and say so. Anyway, here are our photos from the as-it-happened story last year (I walked the whole stretch, taking pix and stopping to post updates along the way):

https://westseattleblog.com/blog/?p=10285

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[JanS]

thanks for the correction, TR.

I have a friend in Columbia City, who, during their car free day, took a picnic lunch and beach chairs and sat in the middle of one of the main intersections, shared their food with people, and had a great time people watching…and met lots and lots of new people. The picture of the 4 people playing scrabble and eating grapes reminded me of that.

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