Rant: seattle summer streets

[JanS]

directed at tsunaminw ->oh, so you’re just trying to annoy people now? Is that your point? You’re not against the event, but you want cars to be able to drive on Alki during the event. That negates the event, i.e., CAR FREE DAY. Now, what part of that do YOU not understand?

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[GenHillOne]

tsunaminw, you have absolutely no way of knowing if I, or anyone else, has been reading this thread from day one. Or if they just sat down and read it from beginning to end. And even if I hadn’t posted a comment prior to this, which I have, anyone has the right to join this conversation, at comment #3 or #103. The tone with which you address others and present your arguments only make me, speaking for myself, discount the validity of anything you have to say.

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[alki_2008]

Oh no…”that negates the event”. This has already been covered. To summarize…making people who park ON Alki drive their cars to park somewhere else (when the cars would otherwise NOT BE DRIVEN) also “negates the event”. The city already dropped the green ‘car free’ theme, since it’s really about building community or something like that.

And GHO…personally, I don’t think the event needs to be completely cancelled, but just limited to the actual “core” of shops/restaurants (ie, 63rd to 57th). There were already some changes from last year to this year that did make things ‘better’ for the businesses/residents – but there’s still room for improvement. Those that commented after last year’s event to initiate the changes will surely be commenting again this year…sorry if that’s not completely transparent to the public.

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[beachdrivegirl]

JoB and JanS how much time did you two spend @ the car free day this year? What did you do to make up for business that was lost to these local busineses? You two seem to be the biggest fans so i would like to know what did you do???

and on a side note , JoB, your post to me has no place in this thread if you would like to talk about traffic congestion start a new thread. Just like your post when you compared the car free day to the M’s. Please try to focus so we can keep the posts down in this thread.

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[tsunaminw]

Genhillone, if you come in at the tail end of a conversation without being part of it all and ask me to repeat myself when I have already stated answers many times already, you can expect it to be annoying and for me to possibly have a curt comment about it. As far as negating my validity? To you maybe, and if your paying that little attention then It doesn’t matter much to me one way or the other.

JanS, I have not said the purpose was to annoy people, your trying to be clever and it has the opposite effect.

Me moving my car for a car free day when I otherwise would not drive, while a boardwalk and bike path exist within feet of the street is my point.

And I wont ask if you get it or not, it is clear you don’t and just want to patronize me or point the finger at my delivery rather than have any suggestions or solutions about the clear and specific issues I originally posted about.

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[JanS]

I think I can agree with the idea of not continuing it all the way down “condo row”, but instead stopping at the end of the business district. Having said that, one of the complaints that I’m hearing is that the event is bad for business. Will it be less bad for business if the route is shorter?

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[tsunaminw]

If the “car free day” theme has been dropped, than the posters here and the website for the event itself should be notified of it.

That makes the motivation behind it a little more genuine, but still solves none of the issues that have irritated me causing me to post.

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[JoB]

alki_2008…

fact… the center of beach activity on Alki is definately west of 67th..

fact: if the street is closed to most car traffic and open to pedestrian traffic.. then there is going to need to be a lane open for those vehicles that are permitted.. or there will be no public transit option at all…

fact: i have been on Alki on more than one beach day.. it’s my local mini-vacation and i treat myself to a drive along the beach regularly. In addition.. there are regular posts by either walkers or bikers complaining about the current system.

fact: there were plenty of pictures posted of this event that clearly showed people using the street…

fact: You brought up businesses spending big dollars on advertising… i suggested sales booths outside their doors and coupons.. neither require the large outlays in advertising you mentioned.

“I’m starting to find it tiresome when posts are made that have no bearing on reality. Sometimes we all say things that just don’t hold up to argument, and it’s really better to just admit defeat than to change the subject…and it’s inane to throw out some other argument when our initial arguments are blown out of the water by “actual facts”. “

back at ya….

The event was a fact.. that the event could impact local business and would inconvenience those who live on beach drive was also a fact…

Now.. i am not sure just who is flirting with reality here when the expectation is that an event which was scheduled long ago shouldn’t happen because neither businesses or residents were prepared.

This could have been and still could be a business opportunity for businesses on Alki.. but they will have to figure out a way to make that happen for themselves…

as for residents.. they can either join in the fun or plan to be elsewhere…

or.. you can visit city hall and voice your concerns. who knows.. maybe enough bitter citizens will be able to spoil the fun for all…

or… you could work to insure that it is a better event.

i’m all for the last option… but what do i know?

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[JanS]

tsunaminw…solution for you…work with the city, with the powers that be. I don’t have a solution for you, and no one else on here does, either. I, for one, feel that you shouldn’t have to move your car, but I can’t help you with that, only the city can.

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[GenHillOne]

airball….

:)

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[JoB]

beachdrivegirl…

I choose to give my business to Alki merchants during off hours… and off seasons.. thereby helping them to stay open when the rest of you aren’t out on the beach partying…

I would gladly have attended the event on Alki if there had been adequate provision for handicapped access and more timely options when i needed to leave. There weren’t. Having public transport on a sunday schedule made it difficult at best for those who aren’t fit to attend.

So should i ask… were you there? did you spend money with alki merchants that day? if not, why not? you’re fit and you have money to spend.

and why is it that you think personal inconvenience only matters if it impacts those on Alki.. or that public dollars spent only matter if they are spent for this event? I didn’t open either of those conversational doors…

On a personal note.. since you insist on being personal… you might want to check before you post.. your animosity is showing…

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[tsunaminw]

a summary of this is that you say the event is going to happen like it or not, regardless of how it affects residents and businesses. We must assume that you feel the benefit is worth the cost.

The fun for all could have been had still, by changing the way it was done, it these changes will get done faster by people like me calling attention to it and then getting things done than it will by others who dont give a damn and want to minimize the problems.

Every other event here packs more people in with less traffic issues, less impact on locals, just as much fun, and more money to the locals who run a business. They do it off the street down by the bathhouse, the space allows for 10x the booths and demos on “car free day” and I have already mentioned that if it was for a marathon and only closed for 2 hours I would have less of a problem with it.

But simply for walkers and bikers to use the road? No. Not when the bike path and boardwalk exist, whether they are supervised to full efficiency or not is hardly the issue.

And dont bother telling me its for people to get to know their neighbors. Most of the locals on either side of me for 2 blocks either left or stayed put out of the way. I got to know more of my neighbors in one week here than I ever did downtown or on the Eastside in years. Years. We didn’t need the evet to do that.

You dont seem to care that even one of the shops has to spend ANY money to counteract the negatives that go along with this event which are only necessary because you choose to have it anyway. It isnt them doing what they have to as a normal course of business, they only have to because of the event.

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[JanS]

Beachdrivegirl, I gave this event as much attention as I give Alki on any other weekends. I was not there. I find the traffic and the lack of parking not suitable to one who uses a cane , and is not able to walk great distances. I do not frequent the businesses there. Fish and chips? I go to the place at Seacrest Marina, coffee? plenty of other places to go to. Restaurants? Nope, lots of equally good places in other parts of WS. And, yes, I spend my hard earned dollars in WS before I ever leave the peninsula, just not at Alki. I know you don’t want to hear that, but that’s life. You will come down hard on me for that answer , I’m sure. I really don’t have to justify my behavior to you, now, do I?

Now, to tsunaminw, who posted the rant to begin with. Usually the standard for posting a “rant” is to show what you did to correct things, that you contacted someone, did SOMETHING to get some relief from your unhappiness. I’m still trying to figure out exactly what you did or are going to do, besides run the other posters on here into the ground because we “don’t get it”. Yes, we do. I just want to know what you’re gonna do about it now.

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[tsunaminw]

I live here and as a local resident I also patronize the local places here in the off season. The locals here keep them alive to some degree but overall they make a profit and play catch up in summer, some even shut down entirely because it is cheaper than staying open.

So why do anything that cuts this down in the prime season.

If this were in another neighborhood and we lived there, we would be talking about that.

But it isnt. We are here, the event is here, this is what we are talking about. It isn’t selfish, its the issue at hand to those affected.

I think animosity only begins to show itself when you have to say something for the tenth time. Even Ghandi and Jesus lost their cool after being annoyed for days.

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[alki_2008]

JoB

fact… the center of beach activity on Alki is definately west of 67th..

I’m guessing you meant 57th, but it’s “beach activity” (sunbathing, walking, v-ball) and not the “business core” that you stated in your earlier post.

fact: if the street is closed to most car traffic and open to pedestrian traffic.. then there is going to need to be a lane open for those vehicles that are permitted.. or there will be no public transit option at all…

True, and that would exist if the closure is limited to between 63rd and 57th.

fact: i have been on Alki on more than one beach day.. it’s my local mini-vacation and i treat myself to a drive along the beach regularly. In addition.. there are regular posts by either walkers or bikers complaining about the current system.

This post is about “only one day” and you have said that you didn’t go to Alki on that day. So, how can you assert how crowded or not it is compared to other summer days when YOU WEREN’T HERE?

fact: there were plenty of pictures posted of this event that clearly showed people using the street…

Could those people not have fit on the boardwalk/beach if the street wasn’t open?

How much of that use was outside of 63rd-57th?

Just because they used the street doesn’t mean it was NECESSARY.

fact: You brought up businesses spending big dollars on advertising… i suggested sales booths outside their doors and coupons.. neither require the large outlays in advertising you mentioned.

Booths require set-up and possibly additional staff to work the booths.

Coupons require printing and mailing (if you meant distribution ahead of time to get people to come to the event). If you meant distributing at the event to get people to come back, then that doesn’t make business sense…because the problem is that there are less people at the event in the first place, so why give 50 people coupons for discounted tabs instead of 100 people paying full tabs?

Now.. i am not sure just who is flirting with reality here when the expectation is that an event which was scheduled long ago shouldn’t happen because neither businesses or residents were prepared.

Personally, I said earlier on in this thread that the event was different than last year (ie, demos, booths, etc) and so MIGHT be better…but after the even realized that it still wasn’t better. As I’ve said more recently, maybe closing only 63rd-57th would make things better. If that’s what happens next year, and it still doesn’t work…then it’s really value-less.

or.. you can visit city hall and voice your concerns. who knows.. maybe enough bitter citizens will be able to spoil the fun for all…

Now…that’s just being “snarky”. At least it won’t spoil your fun, since you weren’t even here.

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[tsunaminw]

JanS

Number one, you dont live here and didnt attend the event either, so why waste our time even responding or participating in this discussion at all, are you bored?

Second, I do not think your definition is the standard held, A rant on a blog is a rant. I can cut and paste 10 other random rants and they sometimes, usually, just rant. I went way further but wasn’t required to do so.

I am also not required to justify to you or explain what I am doing about it to change it next year. Im doing so, that answer is sufficient for me and I will be doing it to get results for me.

As difficult as it has been for many to follow the basic points here, I wouldn’t want to fry anyones brain by adding other issues to this.

And no, saying you get it doesn’t mean you get it.

You clearly don’t. You show this by dodging the specific points brought up, solutions suggested, ad just give the standard “its just one day, cant we all just get along, lets all be happy and drink the koolaid” answer over and over.

My rant was as a local resident who particpates in local events and is impacted by all of them whether I attend or not. I see them up close, and form an opinion about it and said so. I have a VESTED INTEREST in this and will comment about it.

If you had solutions or were helpful in any way, it might be overlooked that you neither live here or attend the event mentioned.

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[JoB]

tsunaminw…

if your car is in the way for a street event scheduled on your street.. then i think you should have to move it…

as for not having to use your car on a car free event day.. you could have moved it the day before and taken care of that problem..

as for the environmental impact caused by moving those cars, it is unlikely that the environmental impact of those who moved their cars around the corner had anywhere near the impact of the normal number of cars cruising on beach days…

and last.. if you want to protest an event.. it is a lot more effective if you do so a lot earlier than the week before it occurs…

apparently this was all ok with you until you were asked to move your car… which has been the central point in pages of your posts… the only page it doesn’t feature is this one.

New events all take time to work out the kinks… this one is no exception… but as long as this is a street fair.. and i sincerely hope it stays a street fair… you are probably going to have to move your car for it.

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[alki_2008]

JanS Will it be less bad for business if the route is shorter?

Personally, I think it could be “less bad”. If people can drive and park on the side streets like Stevens or 56th/55th or Alki Ave east of 57th, then it won’t be much burden for people to walk just a handful of blocks to get to the shops/restaurants…compared to how far they’d currently have to walk. Also, with a closure of just 63rd-57th, then people could drive to the beach with all their chairs/coolers/strollers/etc and then might wander over to the restaurants/shops. These beachgoers don’t come to beach on the event day because they have a lot of stuff to haul. Many people unload a ton of ‘supplies’ from their cars to set-up for a day on the beach.

tsunaminw the website for the event itself should be notified of it

The city’s website is “Celebrate Summer Streets”, so I think they’ve embraced the dropping of the ‘car-free’ moniker.

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[alki_2008]

JanS I really don’t have to justify my behavior to you, now, do I?

Pot calling the kettle?

Usually the standard for posting a “rant” is to show what you did to correct things, that you contacted

Now what…trying to negate the entire thread because it’s not going the way you or JoB want it to go?

Besides, I think that Rant rule only applies when ranting about a business.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I guess I don’t get it. If you were not there, did not participate, and were not affected by it how do you have an opinion on it? Tsuanaminw, Alki_2008, and myself all have talked to business owners, all saw the event, and all have researched it…imo I would suggest to those that cant say they have done any of those things to go get a realty check. Sometimes, what seems like a good idea (no driving) sound a lot better on paper than in realty so why do you all have such a hard time accepting it? Are you guys just arguing for the sake of arguing?

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[alki_2008]

if your car is in the way for a street event scheduled on your street.. then i think you should have to move it…

as for not having to use your car on a car free event day.. you could have moved it the day before and taken care of that problem..

Okay, I think this qualifies as “don’t get it”.

if you want to protest an event.. it is a lot more effective if you do so a lot earlier than the week before it occurs…

How does one protest an event more than a week ahead, when it wasn’t communicated to the residents well (outside of WSB) until just a few days ahead? That was mentioned several times in earlier pages of this thread.

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[tsunaminw]

Back to calling it a street fair again eh? I cant even continue to take you seriously at this point. If you don’t get it now, you never will.

You assuming alot, my post was far from me just noticing and beginning to do something about it that day. Its just all I mentioned.

And if you want to know what kinks to work out, the input of those affected the most is where to start.

But honestly, I haven’t senses any sensitivity to thoe points, it’s been al excuses and defensiveness, changing the subject, minimising the impact, examples thrown out that have no similarity, on and on.

Even comments like “if the locals hate it, then mission accomplished” or something to that effect.

As a proponent, I would expect a comment to those people directly from supporters like you but didn’t even see that. It was ignored entirely.

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[beachdrivegirl]

JoB and JanS werent you the ones insisting to another poster that they should back pack in with their two year old, dog, and elderly parents or take the bus b/c it wasnt that hard to get around. I would suggest you practice what you preach or at least go back and read what you previously posted so you dont CONTRADICT your statements.

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[JoB]

alki_2008…

reality check…

what part of the point of this was to allow people unfettered access to the beach area… not the boardwalk area… which is pretty much where the businesses are?

how would closing the boardwalk area and opening the beach area to cars have facilitated this?

as for whether giving coupons for off times would have an impact on Alki businesses… it must have a positive long term impact because most of the year.. most of those businesses distribute coupons to draw in business… so what would make this different?

in spite of all inferences… one day’s business does not make or break a season.. and if you pull more people in on off days it improves your bottom line… and that of your employees…

setting up a booth to hand out coupons or samples or to sell street food is not that big a deal… and could increase the profit margin substantially..

what it really comes down to is that you don’t think the people who live on Alki.. a traditional daytrip holiday destination for greater Seattle.. should have to be inconvenienced by a one day event.. that has the possibility of introducing The Alki area to people who might not otherwise visit and thus increase off season business…

i don’t buy it…

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[alki_2008]

JoB My main reason for making the “facts” comment was about comments like saying that there are businesses along the Lk Washington car-free Sundays, when the fact is that there aren’t any businesses/restaurants on the entire stretch…or saying the street closure if for the business core, when the actual street closures don’t back that up…and then there’s the comments about how the event was, without any actual observation of the event itself or actual discussion with the businesses affected…and then the Mariner’s not contributing to the local economy stuff (but that’s off-topic).

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