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October 11, 2011 at 3:26 am #736295
elikapekaParticipantKootchman, I have said over and over that in my reference to the tactics by the right against public unions that yes, I am painting with a broad brush – can I quote you an instance where someone says specifically that policeman and firemen are thugs, of course not. What’s very easy to find are statements all over the place regarding “union thugs” and public employees in the same breath, most notably Christie referring to the teachers union. I stand by what I said. It’s not a good campaign strategy. The rest of your rant is completely off topic – the longshoremen in Longview were way out of line, and I haven’t heard anybody on here defend any of the actions you mentioned.
Bostonman, dismiss Krugman if you like, but he’s not without credibility. The man won a Nobel prize in economics. Lots of economists are warning against the lack of spending by governments in this economy. Even Alan Greenspan has agreed that the Bush tax cuts should expire.
Here is what I see as a real small business owner – I see banks that got bailed out with our tax dollars and won’t loan money. A relative of mine has run a small motel for 35 years. Crazy busy in summer, not so much in winter. She gets a bridge loan almost every year to see her through the last month or two of winter. Last two years, no money available. So she puts off some maintenance and upgrades – doesn’t hire the landscaper or contractors she normally would have. Summer comes along and she gets by with one less housekeeper. This year she did get a loan, but from a small local bank.
Another relative runs a landscaping business – same thing. No loans. So he doesn’t buy the new equipment he wanted to, and hires one less guy to mow and does it himself.
A lot of my clients are small firms who have traditionally financed projects until they get paid on completion. No money for them either. Lots of them are out of business or have had to partner with larger firms that can carry the investment.
But when I deal with large corporations (usually insurance companies), they often try and get me to lower my rates to a point that I’d just be breaking even. My smaller clients don’t do that. My recent surprise was when I called one of the largest insurance companies in the country about an invoice that was 45 days old, only be told that “Oh, you’re on our 90-day pay schedule.” Oh, really? Well, my creditors don’t let me do that. Now are these companies lowering their prices to consumers, or paying out more in claims? No. They’re paying the CEO’s a lot more and trading investment paper amongst themselves, and none of that money is being put into the economy.
October 11, 2011 at 3:49 am #736296
JoBParticipantincentive pay?
I like that idea
but as for the rest..
i am so glad i took the day off
will probably do the same tomorrow :)
carry on!
October 11, 2011 at 4:02 am #736297
kootchmanMemberBeen there. Eli… ten per cent hold backs..I price accordingly. . The five greatest days, the marriage, the birth, the divorce, selling the boat, and when you can self finance. I worry less about the amount of credit than not having the ability to self finance.
October 11, 2011 at 4:18 am #736298
miwsParticipantSilly sydney!
Doncha know that corporations are people?!?
Yes, that corporate charter, that document, is a living, breathing human being!
Mike
October 11, 2011 at 4:29 am #736299
kootchmanMembermiws… and no where in the constitution does it say it has to stay that way. Lest we forget that in the long litany of possible reforms. Course, that would mean revoking all the union corporate charters, the 501’c’s … willing to trade? I am. Course that would mean you could sue individuals, jail em too… but would the trial lawyers have a defendant if the corporation was a non-entity?
October 11, 2011 at 2:19 pm #736300
YardvarkMemberDoes anyone know if there’s an easy way to get food delivered to the protesters’ tent? Or blankets?
October 11, 2011 at 2:59 pm #736301
JiggersMemberMcGinn is spending money and placing porta-potties for the protesters Westlake Park. Remember, McGinn is the “grassroots” type. This is right in his wheel-house so to say.
October 11, 2011 at 3:27 pm #736302
JoBParticipantkootchman…
don’t be silly.
you know that the revenue produced from unions and 501’c’s is collected from individual donations..
but that the revenue produced by commercial corporations is collected from profits.. which are at all time highs.
one of these is not even remotely like the other.
Case in point.. as you are so quick to point out to us… Obabma’s campaign contributions began with individual donors.. but the real money from corporate donors pushed him over the top…
October 11, 2011 at 3:29 pm #736303
JoBParticipantjiggers…
i am glad McGinn is keeping Westlake Park clean by placing portable toilets there.
but i would be happier if he instructed the chief of police to stop harassing protesters.
you can’t have an umbrella in the park unless you are standing or walking? really?
October 11, 2011 at 4:50 pm #736304
YardvarkMemberEnforcement of these strict umbrella laws are costing us $30,000 in police overtime. Do we really have umbrella laws in Seattle?
I wouldn’t blame the Seattle Police for trying to make themselves relevant and get a little extra overtime, but this seems like a rather unnecessary expenditure of public resources.
October 11, 2011 at 4:50 pm #736305
YardvarkMemberOctober 11, 2011 at 6:07 pm #736306
DBPMemberYardvark, if you’re going down there any time soon, I would appreciate it if you could talk to people there and bring us back a report on what the protestors want, how they propose to get it, your general impressions, etc.
I guess what I’m asking you to do is “citizen reporting.”
Thanks.
—David
October 12, 2011 at 12:06 pm #736307
kootchmanMemberHere we go again…. if you can’t see. hear, or admit, Obama is a crony capitalist of the first order… How many protestors know that Wall Street flooded Democrats with campaign cash.. and they got what they paid for. AH… then we had Solyndra… indictments to come? Coming still… SunPower…1.2 BILLION in federal loan gaurantees… it is trading today at a market cap … 28 million less than its debt.. sooo why would we cough up 1.2 billion.. no investors would. No banks would, unless govt took out the risk.. why it;s a company billions in debt.. but managed to bundle, bundle, bundle campaign dollars for? You guessed it BHO AND Rep (Democrat) George Miller… and oh my gosh… guess who is the lobbyist for SunPower? George Miller IV… son of Rep George Miller. To make matters worse?… they are going to build all those panels in Mexico… Mexicali to be exact… a company soooo bad it went from a market cap of 13 billion to 800 million… DOE gave the loan even after Solyndra went public… now tell me again why we are supposed to pass the “jobs bill”? Tax dollars for Mexican jobs…? The only logic is Mexico is dropping its World Court suit for the gun running, ” Fast and Furious”” against the Obama Justice Department? Good thing we have those millonaires to cover this type of buffonery… wow… under Dodd Frank banks have to have at least 10% in reserves or close… under Obamacronyfunding… you can have NO reserves,.no collateral, and be worth nothing…less than nothing…. and get a 1.2 billion dollar loan. And you want more of the same? Did Imention that there are multiple fraud lawsuits pending from stockholders for fraud, concealment of material fact, and accounting deceptions? All known before the loan gaurantee from DOE… rah rah rah.. go get em’ Occupiers… you don’t know who is screwing you. redblack…those won’t be union wages and benefits jobs I am thinking? Can’t wait to see the defense you offer up for this! JoB? Unions bundle bribe money.. and as you well know.. until this year, unions were allowed to take dollars even if the members said no for campaign donations. It would be the same as a corporation taking a payroll deduction from all the salaried employees for the RNC
October 12, 2011 at 2:46 pm #736308
TDeParticipant5 things to know about the wealthiest 1% of America: http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/top-5-facts-america-richest-1-183022655.html
#1) The Top 1% Owns 40% of the Nation’s Wealth:
Nobel Laureate Joseph Stiglitz points out the richest 1% of Americans now own 40% of the nation’s wealth. This disparity is much worse than it was in the past, as just 25 years ago the top 1% owned 33% of national wealth.
How much does the bottom 80% own? Only 7%.
#2) The Top 1% Take Home 24% of National Income:
While the richest 1% of Americans take home almost a quarter of national income today, in 1976 they took home just 9% — meaning their share of the national income pool has nearly tripled in roughly three decades.
#3) The Top 1% Own Half of the Country’s Stocks, Bonds and Mutual Funds: The Institute for Policy Studies illustrates this massive disparity in financial investment ownership, noting that the bottom 50% of Americans own only 0.5% of these investments.
#4) The Top 1% of Americans Have Only 5% of the Nation’s Personal Debt:
Using 2007 figures, sociologist William Domhoff points out that the top 1% have 5% of the nation’s personal debt while the bottom 90% have 73% of total debt.
#5) The Top 1% Are Taking In More of the Nation’s Income Than at Any Other Time Since the 1920s: Not only are the wealthiest 1% of Americans taking home a tremendous portion of the national income, but their share of this income is greater than at any other time since the Great Depression, per the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities – http://www.cbpp.org/cms/index.cfm?fa=view&id=2908
October 12, 2011 at 3:00 pm #736309
kootchmanMemberFINALLY!!! Someone finally posted their definition of “rich”… from a self proclaimed feminist no less…
*For the sake of this argument, I’m defining “rich” as an income of at least $300,000 per year and $1,000,000+ in investable assets.
NOW we know why they are hanging out on Wall Street…. it’s called chumming!!! I am reassured!
October 12, 2011 at 4:04 pm #736310
stinaParticipantThe Facebook page for Occupy Seattle has some options for sending hot food to the protesters. I believe that three pizza companies are offering discounts for deliveries to Westlake Park: https://www.facebook.com/OccupySeattle
In addition to hot food, the protesters are also requesting blankets and dry clothing.
October 12, 2011 at 4:16 pm #736311
DBPMemberAlso, some info I just got from John Repp of West Seattle Neighbors for Peace and Justice:
Help Supply the “Occupy Seattle” Movement
Ongoing drop-off locations for your convenience!
The Occupy Seattle contingent is in desperate need of supplies to sustain their presence in Westlake Park. Help us collect ready to eat foodstuffs, toiletries, and other camping-type supplies to help them out. Drop off locations are as follows:
Location 1
Seattle Labor Temple
2800 1st Ave Ste 206, Seattle
9am – 4pm, Weekdays
Location 2
Seattle/King Co. Building and Construction Trades Hall
6770 East Marginal Way South
Building E Suite 360, Seattle
9am – 11:30am & 1pm – 3pm, Weekdays
Location 3
Tukwila Teamsters Hall
14675 Interurban Ave S, Tukwila
9am – 5pm, Weekdays
(Purple bins in the lobby)
Questions? Please Contact Max Brown, MLKCLC Political/Field Director, (206) 441-7102 or max@mlkclc.org
October 12, 2011 at 4:19 pm #736312
DBPMemberkootchman: Get a grip. The world as you know it is ending.
(Pssst! You’ll probably be better off.)
October 12, 2011 at 5:12 pm #736313
dawsonctParticipantAfter reading all these comments, what really warms the cockles of my heart, is our two resident von Mises pieces seem to be coming around to the blatantly obvious realization that “supply-side” economics is a sham.
Nice to know you two, supposedly, small-business owners understand basic economic principles, at least MICRO-economics, that sitting on revenue when there is no demand for a product or service doesn’t act as incentive to create jobs.
—
You should be proud to know intellectual evolution IS possible, even for the always certain (though rarely correct) conservative mind.
October 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm #736314
dawsonctParticipantHere are some nice quotes from a pair of obvious “America-haters.”
You may not want the volume up all the way toward the middle of the clip, depending on where you are watching this.
—
Gosh, SOOOO difficult finding people who can articulate their/our position.
October 12, 2011 at 5:51 pm #736315
kootchmanMemberI know…generally you can tell… “we” “they” post a URL
October 12, 2011 at 5:55 pm #736316
kootchmanMemberTDe. and so what, Congratulate them! Then can have 99% of the wealth. what does that mean? ..14.5 trillion would go a long way. That’s what I want back… the amount the federal government has squandered..that’s a bigger piece of the pie.
October 12, 2011 at 6:06 pm #736317
DBPMemberSpeaking of we/they . . . In his column today, Danny Westneat made some principled criticism of the “Occupy” movement’s fixation on numbers. He concedes some of the protesters’ points but cautions people not to reduce the problem to one of us versus them:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/dannywestneat/2016474631_danny12.html
. . . are we 99 percenters going to blame it all on them? Did no one in the 99 percent lie on their liar loans? Or buy way too much house? Rack up too much debt on flat screens or second homes? Fall for those political sweet nothings that said no matter how much the country spends, you won’t have to pay for it?
I did some of those things. But since I’m in the 99 percent, I guess it’s not my fault.
And don’t forget that we Americans — all of us — still look like the 1% to most of the rest of the world.
****************************************************************************************
I don’t agree with most of Westneat’s reasoning in this piece, but I’m glad to see someone at the Seattle Times at least making some cogent arguments. I’m so tired of hearing Obama-this and Democrats-that, blah-blah-blah.
–As if Obama and the Democratic machine were actually in favor of this movement!
October 13, 2011 at 7:14 pm #736318
sydneyMemberHey, did anyone see that banner in the trade building (NYC) that said “we are the 1%” ?
They admit it, they chew us up and spit us out for breakfast.
I say, therefore…”eat the rich”.
October 13, 2011 at 10:13 pm #736319
DBPMemberEat them like the roll of toilet paper they are!
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