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August 12, 2008 at 5:36 am #587756
AnonymousInactive“I cannot imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values,”
“Let’s explicitly own ‘American’ in our programs, the speeches, and the values. He doesn’t,” Penn wrote. “His roots to basic American values and culture are at best limited.” – Mark Penn
Read it all at:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/TheNote/story?id=3105288&page=1
August 12, 2008 at 6:34 am #634032
charlabobParticipantYou’re right, NR — I think there’s still time for McCain to bow out gracefully.
August 12, 2008 at 6:44 am #634033
JanSParticipantMark Penn…seems he wanted to really put a spin on things…I’m so glad that Hill didn’t go for it…
August 12, 2008 at 1:19 pm #634034
charlabobParticipantThis is an amazing set of articles and memos about the rise and fall and rise and fall of the Clinton campaign. Amazing stuff for politics geeks, no matter what their persuasian:
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200809/hillary-clinton-campaign
August 12, 2008 at 5:34 pm #634035
AnonymousInactiveMcCain bow out? You know better, charla.
Also, I guess it was unclear, but the above quotes were in reference to Obama.
So…. If that’s what Democrats think of Obama, what should the rest of us think?
August 12, 2008 at 5:48 pm #634036
JenVMemberI think people should think for themselves. Just my $.02.
August 12, 2008 at 6:07 pm #634037
rs261MemberI think that strategists have an agenda to make people look bad…democrat or republican their job is to have their candidate win. He was trying to figure out what a weakness was…and obviously he failed….
Florida’s Republican House Speaker calls McCain ‘disingenuous’ for linking drilling to gas prices.
Does this mean all repubs think McCain is disingenuous? no…its one persons opinion, and they are intitled to it. In 2000 McCain lost to bush-rove due to a smear campaign. The smears claimed that McCain had fathered a black child out of wedlock (the McCains’ dark-skinned daughter was adopted from Bangladesh), that his wife Cindy was a drug addict, that he was a homosexual, and that he was a “Manchurian Candidate” who was either a traitor or mentally unstable from his North Vietnam POW days. So, does this mean its all true???
August 12, 2008 at 7:27 pm #634038
KenParticipantMark Penn is a first class fool. McSames Georgia speech seems to have been lifted from wikipedia and no one knows for sure which of the Neocons convinced the Georgians that poking the Bear was a good idea.
Perhaps we will find out, perhaps not.
Apparently the soldiers in the field expected Russia and NATO to jump in immediately and start slugging it out over each sides reported atrocities.
The Bushco stables are supposed to be filled with Russian experts and either they had no clue as to what the result would be or they have some reason to want to raise the specter of “soviet aggression” (a la McCain) so they can recycle the reams of propaganda from the Reagan administration.
That is just speculation as to how the Republicans will try to make it an issue. Russia and Georgia have to deal with the realities of the day now that the low level feud that has gone on for more than a decade (between Georgia and two autonomous regions that were lumped in with them at the breakup of the soviet union) is now close to a resolution.
The opinions and rhetoric of Obama, McCain and Rice are so much meaningless babble to those who will make the decisions in this conflict and McCain and Rice are entirely ignored by the Europeans who are trying to do some actual diplomacy.
Bush will soon make some speech which will make it obvious that he has no idea what is going on while Cheney is glued to the warporn channel as visions of “tactical nukes” dance in his cyborg head.
August 12, 2008 at 7:31 pm #634039
charlabobParticipantI realize the quotations were about Obama; I was pointing out, with apparently too much subtlety, that I believe McCain (and, indeed, the Republican party) have done more to destroy American(sic) values than anybody who had the bad taste to travel the world when he was young. See :-)
rs, I personally hope some folks outside the campaign dredge up the smears against McCain from the 200 campaign (and the quotations, for example, from a very conservative senator, Tad Cochran, who said he’s be “Terrified to have a president McCain.”
August 12, 2008 at 7:53 pm #634040
AnonymousInactive“So…. If that’s what Democrats think of Obama, what should the rest of us think”
The rest of you (republicans) already think this way. Mark Penn was just trying to capitalize on this fear and paranoia to keep any more reps from jumping ship to Obama.
However, any thinking republicans have already left and don’t buy this garbage any more than we do. Hillary did the right thing in ignoring his advice.
PS. It’s still not too late for you NR
August 12, 2008 at 8:09 pm #634041
AnonymousInactiveThanks, JT, but no thanks.
The American population is getting older and a good amount of voters who turn out and vote are 65 and older, this is where McCain is leading.
It seems that experience (remember, McCain has actually met with the Republic of Georgia’a president and Obama, well, he’s never even been to Georgia) is what matters to those voters.
I realize many Dems here will argue the “experience” argument and claim that it is used too often, but it’s a great argument and it does count for a lot, no matter whatever else you are able to convince yourself of.
August 12, 2008 at 8:52 pm #634042
ZenguyParticipantReally NR? You claim to know what matters for all older voters? I would be careful in generalizing about any group. As you know Republicans come in all shapes, sizes and even a few stray gay ones (still don’t get that btw) just as Democrats do.
August 13, 2008 at 12:41 am #634043
JanSParticipanthey…getting old ain’t for sissies, for sure…I’m 61, and please don’t tell me that John McCain appeals to me. And, NR, not impressed that he’s met the Prez of Georgia…so what? GWB rubbed elbows with Putin the other night in Beijing…does this help their relationship? umm…no…
August 13, 2008 at 2:59 am #634044
AnonymousInactiveZenguy – I’m not generalizing, it’s a statistic. The majority of voters over 65 are for McCain. Obviously not ALL voters over 65 are voting for him, but enough to put McCain ahead of Obama in that demographic.
JanS – It was an illustration of experience. You have a candidate who has actually met with and dealt with the guy and another candidate who’s never even been there. Simple illustration, nothing more, nothing less.
Gosh, we sure are going tit for tat aren’t we?
August 13, 2008 at 3:04 am #634045
JanSParticipantGosh, NR….are we?
August 13, 2008 at 3:49 am #634046
AnonymousInactiveDo you think the fact that McCain’s top foreign affairs adviser (Randy Scheunemann) was a long time lobbyist on behalf of Georgia, has anything to do with him meeting and dealing with “the guy”? Getting paid all that money has got to buy you something, don’t you think? I mean besides their water skiing adventure together.
He didn’t stop being a lobbyist, by the way, until all the attention focusing on McCain’s conflicts of interest came to light a few months ago and McCain suddenly decided no one on his team could be a lobbyist. That doesn’t mean these lobbyist left his campaign, it just means they temporarily resigned from their firms.
The WSJ is spinning this as a good thing. Sounds convenient to me.
http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB121842762192729075.html?mod=special_page_campaign2008_topbox
August 13, 2008 at 3:14 pm #634047
charlabobParticipantRemember, the WSJ is now owned by Rupert Murdoch. Same bloke who owns Faux News. Once upon a time, they carefully separated their news from editorial and they were an extremely reliable medium. Not so much now :-)
August 13, 2008 at 3:16 pm #634048
charlabobParticipantGeorgia invaded the breakaway province before Russia did. Obama recommends both sides cool it.
Condi Rice stopped by Georgia just before she left on vacation. Didn’t seem to help. (Remember, George stared into Putin’s eyes and saw his soul. Whatever that means.)
NR, you’re trying to find excuses for supporting McCain. I applaud your effort, but you guys nominated and elected GWB who had never left the US except to travel to Mexico. Apparently the standards have changed.
August 13, 2008 at 3:34 pm #634049
KenParticipantsooo Condi is the one playing the April Glaspie role this time…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Glaspie
Some expert eh?
For fun check out the conservapedia search for the same topic.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Special:Search?search=Glaspie&ns0=1&searchx=Search
August 13, 2008 at 4:43 pm #634050
JoBParticipantI applaud anyone who could stick it out to read the entire article that started this thread.
If the bad writing hadn’t gotten to me.. the short attention span reporting did.
New resident.. it remains to be seen what those over 65 will do at the ballot box…
The one problem McCain has is that those folks actually remember when governmental agencies actually produced results…
they actually lived through a world war and aren’t so eager to do so again.
and they are more aware than most of us what his difficulty word finding and inability to track details means for his future… and thus for ours.
polling is an overrated science.. especially when it comes to presidential elections.
August 13, 2008 at 5:19 pm #634051
SuitsarenotBoringMemberI don’t believe that this is a year when “the norm” of who votes for what party will stand. It is an unusual election and an unusual time in the US.
There were interesting articles in the Las Vegas papers over the weekend on how McCain fared at the Disabled American Vets convention in that city.
This is from the large daily
http://www.lvrj.com/news/26582304.html
and this is from the smaller paper with local ownership.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/aug/10/mccains-attacks-rival-fall-flat-vets-group/
August 13, 2008 at 10:50 pm #634052
JoBParticipantThe vets have had 8 years of buying rhetoric and promises.. and unfortunately, too many of them have been left without services by the current administration… with the full backing of John McCain.
this is the administration that tried to end it’s contract for vet medical care with survivors of world war II.
That didn’t sit well with vets… no matter what war they fought.
August 13, 2008 at 10:53 pm #634053
JoBParticipantNewResident…
what American value does depriving those who gave their lives, their health or their productivity for this country represent?
Obama voted for Veteran benefits. McCain didn’t.
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