Hummer Houses or Town Houses…

[JoB]

Urban planning starts with discussions like these.

in Portland, they passed laws requiring all downtown commercial buildings to have retail at street level and whatever above…. (i know there have to have been exceptions… maybe hotel and condos… but even those seem to all have large open lobbies… so i would guess that is in the laws somewhere)…

as a result, you don’t have block upon block with imposing commercial buildings lining the street.. and where there is housing.. there are services…

the downtown area is a much more pleasant place to walk… the Pearl is a delight.

Even mandating courtyards or setback on subsequent floors can make a big difference in the livability of the neighborhood.

urban planning outlawed detached rentals in Seattle… which i am certain encouraged the splitting of lots and loss of yards… decreasing affordable housing… increasing density.. and increasing the tax base.

While everyone can agree that replacing crack houses with townhomes is a great deal for the neighborhood..

it is sometimes not so easy to see how replacing homes that generally have some setback from the street with canyons of townhomes and condos at streetside is such a good thing.

More worrisome is the parking.

While it was practical to have only street side parking when you had access to garages and an alley behind the house.. it is not so practical when that lot is sold off and the only parking for whole blocks off double stacked homes becomes the street outside.

As i read one of the latest proposals for a new retail/housing complex… i saw that the plan was for two floors of commercial with a possible 100 housing units… and parking for only 250 cars. I have to wonder if the 250 cars will service even the commercial/retail space… let alone the housing units…

and yes.. i can see that would encourage the use of public transit… but again.. people are more likely to rely on public transit and walking when there are services at street level in their neighborhood and when walking reveals an attractive vista… not a canyon of cars and building fronts.

i think what is most distressing to me is what i see as the lack of planning… because West Seattle isn’t just a bedroom extension of downtown.. it is a community.. and when all of the dust settles from development… it’s long term success will depend upon retaining that sense of community.

So i would encourage everyone to weigh in.. and i hope this thread pops up on the radar of our local officials.. or that this thread encourages mroe of us to write or speak our opinions on the loss of buildings like the complex on the home page..whose fate may be decided this week…

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[beachdrivegirl]

JoB-

Your concern about parking is right on with one of my main concerns. My biggest concern is the brige traffic. I just dont understand how developers expect people to get in and out of W.Seattle as mroe and more townhomes/condos go up around our community. As an individual who loves W.Seattle and has called it home for nearly three years, but works downtown it concerns me that the City is not planning on increasing public transportation. I know when I first moved to W.Seattle I was beyond extatic because my townhome was right by where the Monorail would stop….and now with the non-existant monorail coming to W.Seattle and no expansion to our current public transportation system I think we need to come up with a plan B fast.

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[JoB]

i agree… i think the plan b may end up being water taxis.. but that will require still more planning.

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[walfredo]

I think a lot of people are leaving out the benefits of the added density to West Seattle. As long as it is done within reason, having more people in West Seattle, especially in the central “junction” and Admiral areas, will increase the density of these areas, which will greatly benefit the stores/restraunts/bars in the area, and set the stage for many more type establishments to come to West Seattle…

I think people need to realize, especially the Junction area, is not going to be a sleepy little strip (for better or worse), and that West Seattle is becoming more and more self-sustaining (and perhaps isolated) because of it.

For the most part, millions of dollars of development, and an influx of new residents who are homeowners, and residents is a very good thing for a community, and from what we have seen so far, have positively effected things like property value, and have greatly improved the number of restraunts/bars/grocery stores/pet stores etc. etc. that are avaialable in the area.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I understand the benefits, but where do you think people are going to work to pay for not only these town homes or hummer houses, but to go to these bars/restraunts/stores in the area??? They need jobs and most of these jobs are outside of W.Seattle last time I checked….

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[Anonymous]

I think he believes jobs will be created here as well, but those are entry level positions at best. Not exactly what it takes to support a mortgage here.

And this really is a serious, valid concern when we essentially have only one route in and out. The bridge is often backed up to 35th as it is. And if there’s an accident, forget it.

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[beachdrivegirl]

Oh I know. I have only been here for one serious accident back over the summer of ’06. I was going to the gym @ quarter till 6…normally I would get to the gym @ 6, work out, get ready for work, and be done for the day. On the day after the horrific accident that left 3 teenagers dead I drove an hour to get out of W.seattle and to the gym to get ready for work…yes @ 5:45 it took me until 7am to get out of W.Seattle…

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[Shibaguyz]

Again, this comes down to attending planning meetings, filing concerns and complaints with those proposed land use signs and voting for expansions to the roads and transit programs.

Also, it helps to vote for officials who understand those concerns and help pass legislation accordingly.

But, as was shown earlier in this thread, it is often those who are crying out the loudest who are the least motivated, likely or have the time and/or energy to take the necessary steps to get these jobs done.

And face it folks, urban sprawl has come to West Seattle. I know it seems like another dimension over here from the downtown life, but it is still part of Seattle. Heck, we moved here because of that very fact that it feels like we are miles away from the city. We loved living in and around downtown but this was like heaven for us to be able to get out of the general din every day.

It’s a nice place to live and people like us are going to move here and buy townhouses and build new construction. How do you think the home you are living in right now got here?? Who was on that property before you? Who owned it then? How did they feel about the neighborhood when the house you are sitting in right now was built?

Oh, and another reason we moved here was because this IS where my partner works and I was moving my job to downtown. We were trying to find something more commute friendly where we could get around easily and not have to purchase a second gas burning car.

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[beachdrivegirl]

First lets go back to the basic question I asked. What would you rather have a hummer house or a town house in your neighborhood? I stated a hummer house and I stated why. (B/c of parking/transportation issues.)

Shibaquyz,

I am a bit confused about where your comment “it is often those crying out the loudest who are the least motivated”. First, I dont think anyone was crying out about anything. I think I was asking a simple quesion on what would people perfer that is far different then crying out so maybe you should read the entire post before you begin to make assumptions. We all know about those people. Second of all to assume that I am the least motivated to stand up to make a change and that I dont vote “for officials who understand those concerns and help pass legislation accordingly.” Is very far from the truth. Yes I said I am not going to campaign against it but that is not becuase I am lazy but becuase I have a job and other obligations that I am already committed to. And typically when I go to bat for something I dont half ass it. I put 110% into it, and follow it through until a resoltion is made. But it looks like you dont really care about that or the truth.

Again, read the post(s), no one ever suggested that people shouldnt be allowed to move here or buy new constrcution here. It was asked what type of new construction was perferred?

And yes I know whre my house came from, it was built in 1928 and has been updated and the house behind mine is newer and came after my house.

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[beachdrivegirl]

“I think the most amazing thing about some of the comments in these discussion forums is when people try to stir things up by making outrageous comments based on little or no facts surrounding the original conversation”-from Shibaquyz post under the RANT-WS Farmers Mkt blog…hmm maybe we should all learn to practice what we preach.

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[Anonymous]

Uh oh, shibaguyz! She makes a great point!

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[walfredo]

I think there is a little too much of a scarcity mentality in some of these questions, and I do understand the frustration from the townhome owner, who thinks this whole train of thought is a bit insulting…

The idea that there aren’t enough jobs in the Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma area to support West Seattle and its growth is a bit over the top…

Now what you might be more concerned with, is if there are enough roads to get people from West Seattle to these places for work and I could see that.

Shoud public transportation efforts be improved? Sure, but don’t forget that the monorail stop that connects West Seattle to Ballard and everywhere in between that was approved then killed, is going to be bring a bunch more people and development from townhouses and condos, to retail and restraunts. So its not exactly a magic bullet.

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[Anonymous]

Walfredo, the *jobs created here* comment was in reference to literally here. In West Seattle. It is because of all the jobs in Seattle, Bellevue, Tacoma, that we all have to use the same single road out of here. Read the context.

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[RainyDay1235]

I say bring on the townhomes! Our neighborhood has improved drastically – in just 2 years – from the High Point construction. I could not even walk through that neighborhood before. Now, I wish I could ‘not afford’ to live there! :)

With its ecclectic mix of townhomes and homes it has increased my property value – despite the market! Granted, those are “cute” and not “little pink boxes” – but, that trend does seem to be catching on. More green, industrial, ecclectic styles as prices of standard building materials rise.

Just be glad it’s townhomes, and not apartments. Nothing against apartment dwellers either, but they do bring way more density (people/traffic) and are more likely to be renters who might not care about upkeep at all. Then it’s up to one landlord. With townhomes, people commonly own and care about their investment.

Townhomes are the new condo – and I salute them!

I still love my little bungalow however :)

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[RS]

Beachdrivegirl, it is an interesting question and I respect that you did just pose a question and weren’t trying to stir up controversy or criticize people’s home buying choices.

That said, I understand some of the frustration that Shilbaguyz was expressing. As someone who cannot afford to buy a traditional single-family home in Seattle right now, I read the WSB discussions and feel a little bit defensive too. When people state that they own their own single family/”traditional”/”classic”/old/”west seattle style” home and then proceeds to criticize new developments (the only homes I could afford), that makes me feel defensive and less welcome, like a poor relation or something.

I understand people’s complaints are often about the lack of design and poor quality of these places, but that criticism often comes across as a direct or implied judgment on someone who would chose to buy such a house. I appreciate charlabob’s comment about people who bought their houses ten years ago. There is some defensiveness and bitterness among those who can’t afford homes in nicer WS neighborhoods. Bitterness not towards the people who do own those homes, but towards the circumstances that make that dream unaffordable.

It’s all well and good to have opinions on new developments, but we all come to those opinions from different places and different levels of privilege and experience. I just hope people can be aware of their own privilege and good fortune, like being lucky enough to have bought a home here when it was more affordable, when they make negative comments about new construction.

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[Shibaguyz]

Beachdrivegirl – I was making a general statement about the types of people we have encountered that complain about their neighborhoods either being over or under developed. That includes here in the thread as well as the community development meetings we have attended here in our neighborhood and district.

However, you did say that you didn’t have the energy to do anything about the construction going up around you that you didn’t agree with. In truth, it takes little more energy than it does to put up a post on a forum or to follow a thread like this one. It’s a matter of contacting the right people and following up on that contact. And, if necessary, going to a meeting every once in a while to be heard and counted.

I did not say you were lazy or uncommitted. I do understand how much time life takes up. This just seemed like an important enough issue for you to bring up that I thought you would want to take the next step.

Your original post compared townhouses to the Hummer House post. The Hummer House post was very negative and destructive in it’s nature regarding the intelligence and integrity of the people building those types of homes. When you compared townhouses to Hummer houses and said you would rather have a Hummer house any day, I took it as a comparison across the board. That comparison and the implication I inferred from it insulted me which led to my post.

Since your original post, you have clarified your concerns as being parking and congestion issues. Your initial posts had no reference to parking or congestion issues and you only brought that into the conversation when someone else brought it up as a point of concern. My last post that you question as being relevant to your thread was in direct response to your change of conversation in the thread regarding this issue. I was not changing the topic, I was answering your post with a comment of my own.

1. I am sorry if I misunderstood your original post which led to my initial upset and consequent post.

2. I am sorry if I have offended any of you by being offended for being compared to the types of people described in the hummer house thread. I was, apparently, wrong.

3. I was not posting in order to “stir things up.” Once again, you compare me to someone that I don’t particularly care to be in league with. The posters I referred to in my other thread were, indeed, trying to be inflammatory and just spouting off unrelated statements. I do not feel like I have done that. I feel like I have tried very hard to stay to YOUR topic and YOUR concerns in this thread. If I have not done so in a particular enough way for you then, again, I apologize for having offended the rules of posting in this thread.

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[Anonymous]

RD1235, I live by Highpoint too and I couldn’t be happier about what they’ve done. Maybe not to everyone’s taste, but I believe it to be a sincere attempt at honoring all types of living situations.

By the way, love the rusty car picture. Makes me think of my old Volvo 122. Warm fuzzies.

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[Jeannie]

These days, I couldn’t afford a townhome in West Seattle. So, as the owner of a small home I purchased back when West Seattle was relatively affordable I don’t “feel superior” to townhome owners in that regard at all. Most likely, townhome owners are making much more money than I am.

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[JoB]

And i rent.. so i am jealous of all of you who have put down your roots…

i had an interesting conversation with a real estate guy today when i stopped by an open house for a house in the high point area…

thanks to all of you.. i had thought about what was important and what needed to happen to make things work.. and our discussion was thought provoking.

i would probably consider a townhome… but they all come with too many stairs:(

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[JoB]

apparently, ours is not the only neighborhood talking about houses…

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2008-04-02/news/seattle-s-ugliest-homes.php

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[jissy]

JoB — very funny, thanks for sharing…. I think we can all relate in each of our neighborhoods to at least one type of each of these houses!

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[beachdrivegirl]

That is quite funny…i like our converstation a bit more though :)

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