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March 30, 2008 at 11:05 pm #586653
beachdrivegirlParticipantYesterday I got mailer informing me that behind my house they would be building more town homes. Then today I saw that a few new posts got added to the “Hummer Houses” blog. And I just had to ask people out here what they would rather have?
I think 9 times out of 10 i would rather have a hummer house in my neighborhood then a town home, but then again I don’t have hummer houses being built right next door, but I do have town homes.
March 31, 2008 at 12:20 am #620567
ShibaguyzMemberhhhmmm… townhouses… what a horror…
I’ll have ours torn down immediately rather than inconvenience anyone who doesn’t like the type of home we chose to purchase.
Quite frankly, we’ve been putting up with this type of stuff from folks since we moved to West Seattle. At what point did townhouses become such an eyesore and an inconvenience for you folks?
The police officers we have spoken with and the neighbors we have talked to said this was a row of crack houses before they were torn down and our townhouses were built here.
Sorry if this sounds a little defensive and angry… but hey… right now I’m feeling defensive and angry… so guess that’s what it’s going to sound like.
I find it amazing that people have decided to declare it open season on slamming the types of housing others choose to purchase just because you don’t like the style of house. It is insulting. Period. My family and I find it offensive.
We love our home. We work very hard on our home and on cleaning up our neighborhood. We love West Seattle. We really enjoy these forums. It’s just amazing to me that it has turned into just blatantly slamming something like our homes.
Guess I don’t get it. Again, I’m angry from hearing this ONE MORE TIME so maybe my judgement is clouded right now.
Amazing… what’s next, ranch style houses? Out of date landscaping? Distasteful window dressings? Sheesh…
March 31, 2008 at 12:53 am #620568
AnonymousInactiveShibaguyz, it’s the developer and their location choice, not the purchaser. There’s 2 examples by our house. One is a IMO nicely done development of condo/townhouses. Architecturally appealing in style and color. No single family homes mingled in.
The other, one street away from us, is what was originally a sweet little street with charming single family homes. Every other lot has sold their backyard to developers who have put in 3 unit townhouses of varying degree of quality. Not a single developer has attempted to blend the architecture with the existing homes and it just looks hideous. No yard for the original house or the townhouses. Trees are all removed. Most of them are bland boxes.
No disrespect is meant to the purchasers. Sometimes it’s a way in to the market. Sometimes it’s a lifestyle choice. There are many reasons and I’m sure you are an asset to the neighborhood.
I can’t speak for BDG, but for myself, in my little tiny 1928 house, it’s difficult to see backyards in single family neighborhoods go this route. Especially if your kitchen window now has a view of siding.
The original Hummer house discussion centered around people coming in and bulldozing an original small house to put in a mammoth McMansion that destroys the land and view of the surrounding homes. It was a venting of disappointment over a loss you can do nothing about.
March 31, 2008 at 1:08 am #620569
ShibaguyzMemberJT – I do appreciate your comments here and they are well taken. Housing developments come in all shapes, sizes and styles with not all of them pleasing to everyone.
However, blatantly making blanket statements and starting to just list of the types of houses we’d least like to see go up in our neighborhoods is… well… just not very nice (a THOUSAND other words came to mind just then and I’m choosing to not use them).
We made the choice to purchase a townhouse because we wanted a new build with lower maintenance requirements and a smaller yard. We wanted enough room to put in some vegetables but not enough to have to mow. We wanted contemporary styling without having to overhaul the interior of an older home.
Yes, this is our starter home. We just couldn’t afford right now to move to our dream home of a farm on some remote property where we can live without, funny enough, this type of rude attitude that seems to come with living in this city at times.
Again, don’t get me wrong, we love Seattle and love living in West Seattle. This is where our heart is and where we have put our souls into. However, the snide comments that we, and our neighbors, have enduring listening to at community meetings and development sessions is just too much today.
Maybe it’s a phase of the moon… maybe my planetary alignments for swallowing one more ounce of this are just out of whack… Whatever the case may be. I’m sick of hearing it and sick of putting up with it.
If more people attended their community planning meetings and filed more petitions against those “proposed land use” signs you see in your neighborhood, you might not be so surprised when a something you don’t like moves in. As is usually the case, people ignore those signs, they don’t attend the meetings then they complain and thrown stones at us when we do develop a neighborhood.
I’m talking in circles now so I’ll stop. Again, JT, thank you for your words. I do understand what you are saying and I understand the intent of the “hummer house” post. Thank you for thinking enough to post and say what you did. My family and I appreciate it.
March 31, 2008 at 1:32 am #620570
AnonymousInactiveShibaguyz, You have every right to your feelings. On another thread someone said as much too. Everyone wants more density as opposed to urban sprawl. Then when it arrives you have a bunch of NIMBYs. I imagine myself included sometimes. I only disagree with some of the planning (or lack thereof), and some of the cheap developers that put up junk.
And we’re still in our starter home 9 years later. A very neglected rental that made it possible to even get a home. I feel very fortunate to be in Seattle and don’t take it for granted.
We’ve also had many discussions in our house about the benefits of no yard maintenance, so you hopefully won’t hear any attitude from this homeowner. I see a future where your situation is by far more desirable. Right now, my partner is addicted to her table saw so it isn’t really feasible:)
In any case, sorry you have received so much flak.
March 31, 2008 at 1:32 am #620571
beachdrivegirlParticipantI have lived in two townhouses since moving to Seattle a few years ago. I was not trying to attack housing types. I am just reminded of one particular builder that used to actually be very close to where I used to live and they crammed 16 town homes onto what was i believe (my memory isnt always the greatest) 3 lots before. They were finished over a year ago and I believe they just sold the last one a few months back. In this case they did tear down three homes that were yes out of date but in no way crack homes. The lot that they are building on behind my home right now is between two single family homes and does not look big enough to fit three -four new town homes. So, I was just trying to figure out what I would rather have…although i really dont have the energy to go fight the developer and i doubt my neighbors either so I am guessing we will have new townhomes in the neighborhood shortly.
March 31, 2008 at 3:04 am #620572
JoBParticipantI don’t think the problem is the type of home…
i don’t think the problem is even density…
it’s poorly planned density and poor design and poor construction.
I am all for a well planned townhome development.. one that actually has space for parking and small private outdoor spaces.. and maybe even a touch of communal green space.
Many of these infill developments have none of those amenities.. and living next to them can and often does mean a backyard that used to be filled with privacy and sunlight is suddenly overlooked by windows and cast into the gloom of perpetual shade.
i know the gardener in you can respond to that:)
March 31, 2008 at 4:21 am #620573
JeannieParticipantI agree wholeheartedly with Beachdrivegirl, JT and JoB. Please don’t be so defensive, Shybaguys. Sheesh!
Other than the ever-worsening traffic the increasing density of West Seattle is creating, townhouses can be perfectly fine. Yeah, the ugly ones are destroying the character of our unique little pocket of the city, breeding a cookie-cutter look, but I’ve seen some very attractive townhome developments in the area. At least 10 percent of the new developments appear to be well-designed (though I can’t speak to the quality of the construction).
Re: Hummer Houses – Like Hummer vehicles, are they really necessary? (yes, our armed forces need Hummer vehicles, but I’m not talking about that!). It seems a waste of energy, a blatant and obnoxious expression of poor taste, a complete lack of a sense of community and consideration of neighbors whose views have been stolen.
March 31, 2008 at 5:23 am #620574
charlabobParticipantAs always, the charla half agrees and disagrees, about equally, with everyone. Taste is a matter of taste. Some people even like the corregated metal shells of garish color that I find, um, barracks-like and depressing. And who knows if they’re right or I am?
I always worry a tiny bit about these discussions (though not about BDG and JoB and the other folks in on this thread, because I “know” them).
I worry that we’re really saying, NIMBY — we want affordable housing – something under 400K, but Not In My Back or front or side yard. Or that we’re saying, “I got mine because I bought 10 years ago — screw you :-)”
On the other hand, I like my eclectic little neighborhood of 50’s ranches, shabby brick tudors, Spanish stuccos (?), and even a couple of new hummer houses, ultramodern and in equisite taste. But two blocks over are townhomes of dubious parentage and design and the people who live there wouldn’t be in my neighborhood if the townhomes weren’t there and I’d miss those people.
And on that same street is what can only be described as a rainbow house, in bright blue! You wouldn’t want a whole block of ’em, but it is a landmark.
Maybe the answer is “guidelines” — strong suggestions for design and density that fit in without being arbitrary. And peer pressure. Certainly, appear before zoning boards — get the laws changed if you don’t like them. And, as BDG and other said, don’t blame the folks who buy the condos and townhouses.
Hot Flash: Jean Nouvel, a “somewhat controversial” French architect, just won the highest prize in architecture, the Pritzger. He redesigned the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis – which some of us used to love. Would you like these in your neighborhood (or city?) In other words, taste really is relative.
http://arts.minneapolis.org/guthrie/
http://www.designboom.com/eng/interview/nouvel.html
Peace and love, even if you live in the rainbow house (if you do, can I please please please have a tour?)
March 31, 2008 at 6:30 am #620575
JanSParticipantCharla…I loe the rainbow house, although I understand that some of the neighbors were less than enthusiastic about it…it kinda grows on you :)
Interesting stuff the french guy has done…some I like, some I don’t. I think when I see some of what is built in the neighborhoods around here, and some of the developments in other part of the city, I wonder if maybe some of the architects need remedial training. One that comes to mind is a place called The Domaine on the “east slope of Queen Anne hill”…actually, the back side of it abuts Aurora Ave. N. Just before Canlis and the Aurora Bridge. And, in my estimation, the back part is butt ugly…but that’s in my eyes. And I bet the front part ain’t half bad. I just feel that some of these designers need to take a closer look at the surroundings of what will be, and then maybe they’ll start to design things that fit in more with the neighborhoods, even if they are townhomes. I grew up in row housing on the east coast..townhomes aren’t much of a stretch from those..and they were unique. The ones on my street were different than the ones around the corner, and yet again different than those around the next corner..but in the end, they all fit together (figuratively and literally)…and it made the neighborhood….and they’re still there, a little worse for wear.
March 31, 2008 at 6:52 am #620576
AnonymousInactiveNot my side of town, but I love the rainbow house too. I have to drive by whenever I’m that way.
March 31, 2008 at 6:52 am #620577
ErikParticipantCharla –
I love the stuff by Nouvel on the designboom.com site, especially the paris symphony hall. One question…is ‘torre agbar’ spanish for big blue dildo?
March 31, 2008 at 6:55 am #620578
AnonymousInactiveErik, I think you’re on to something!
March 31, 2008 at 7:12 am #620579
charlabobParticipantPerhaps big blue bull dildo? I love a lot of his stuff too; can’t wait to see the tall grassfilled building in LA. I had an emotional attachment to the old Guthrie, so nothing he did would have made me happy — and if the Minneapolis building was something else, I would probably love it too. :-)
exquisite, dammit — I hate when I discover spellos too late to edit.
I’m still waiting for the owner of the Rainbow House to offer tours. Maybe we can add that to our raffle at the Admiral.
March 31, 2008 at 3:18 pm #620580
beachdrivegirlParticipantI dont think I have seen the rainbow house….but now you have me all intrigued so I will be seeing it soon.
March 31, 2008 at 3:40 pm #620581
JoBParticipanti didn’t love the the new guthrie… from the outside.
but thee is something grand and mysterious about it on the inside… in an austere (sp>) sort of way.
March 31, 2008 at 3:54 pm #620582
BarkdustParticipantI read the posts about Hummer Houses, McMansions, townhouses of dubious parentage, stolen views etc. and I think we sound like a bunch of selfish busybodies. First, when did it become so commonplace to insult our neighbors in public like this? I can certainly see why Shibaguyz was offended. If we believe in tolerance, let’s try to practice it. Second, how did we get to the point where a person using his own property in a completely legal manner can be accused of theft? If we want to go down that road, what would you call neighbors banding together to take away another neighbor’s property rights?
Now I’ll switch hats from scold to capitalist. When we bought our house, we looked at our view and saw a few one story houses who could “go up” into that view. We assumed that would happen some day and made that point in price negotiations with the seller. Now I’m all in favor of reducing the maximum height on houses. This would give us a protected view that we never paid for. Sweet! I’d love to get a windfall at a neighbor’s expense.
March 31, 2008 at 4:19 pm #620583
beachdrivegirlParticipantBarkdust, I was just bringing up the point as to what people would perfer in their neighborhood. The land behind my house is going to be developed into something. (Although it is a bit unfortnate considering it is undeveloped right now.) I am just not sure what I would prefer and was curious as to what others thoughts were.Please also note that not all of these townhome developments have been 100% legal.
And yes, I agree it is important to consider what view you will lose 2, 5, 10 yrs. out. I did just that this past summer when we purchased our new home. We are just enjoying the moment right now until the homes infront of us start building up since they can.
March 31, 2008 at 4:32 pm #620584
AnonymousInactiveBarkdust, you scold everyone for discussing this and giving their opinion, then proceed to do same. If you’re not interested in the topic, move on.
March 31, 2008 at 4:34 pm #620585
BarkdustParticipantbeachdrivegirl, You started this topic with a sensible question and merits discussion. My post was not really directed at you but posts (in this thread and others) that IMHO seem intemperate and impolite. I’m no paragon in either category BTW but I thought a little push back was in order. I’m also not defending any sort of development that isn’t legal. My premise is that we operate within a set of rules that constrain us and also protect us. I’m just opposed to changing the rules of the game after everyone has placed their bets, as it were.
March 31, 2008 at 4:39 pm #620586
BarkdustParticipantJT, I’m puzzled how you interpret my participation as lack of interest. I’m criticizing some opinions expressed here not the existence of the topic.
Don’t worry I won’t be posting often.
March 31, 2008 at 4:46 pm #620587
AnonymousInactiveI’m not worried, you should post as often as you like. Calling everyone busybodies suggested you were bothered by the discussion. If that is the case, I didn’t understand why you proceeded to engage. If I mis-understood your motivation, I apologize.
March 31, 2008 at 4:54 pm #620588
AnonymousInactiveBarkdust – I hope you continue you to post. The more differing opinions, the better, I say!
However – I can definitely see that BDG was not criticizing anyone’s choice of home, merely asking what other’s thoughts were regarding new building prospects.
I didn’t see anything in her original post that should have been taken personally or negatively.
I would have to agree with BDG as far as preferring a “hummer house” to town homes. The reason I feel this way is because, even though “hummer houses” can (to some) be viewed as big and ugly, they still maintain a certain character within a neighborhood. I am from Phoenix where every house looks exactly the same in each development. One of the things we loved about W. Seattle was the character in every neighborhood. Every house was different and unique. When you start building town homes, they start to all look the same (maybe different colors), and that is what I would, personally, want to see less of. I hope I don’t offend anyone, that is not my intention. That’s just my opinion (or preference) on this topic.
March 31, 2008 at 4:57 pm #620589
BarkdustParticipantJT, Thanks, but no apology required. I see your point now, and it’s a fair one. I guess I was/am criticizing aspects of the discussion. But I do think it’s fair play to make that point in this thread. I didn’t really think of starting a new topic to make a point about this one. I’m a novice on blog etiquette.
March 31, 2008 at 5:12 pm #620590
AnonymousInactiveBarkdust, all of us seem to have etiquette problems at different times. This was simply a case of some of knowing each other and circling the wagons at a perceived slight. If you stick around, you’ll see contradictions abound. Don’t be scared off. Most of us kiss and make up at the end of the day.
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