Grow up dems!

[Anonymous]

CP – I don’t fully understand your question.

Are you asking, would I change my vote if enough dirt is dug up about Palin? Or, is this a personal question? I have demonstrated, here on this forum, that I am capable of changing my stance on issues when presented with, either a good enough argument, or flat out proof of my being in the wrong.

No, I will defend my stance as a Republican and my right to vote Republican. If, for some reason, I decided to vote Democrat, I would then vote Democrat.

“I’ve been willing to take it into account, acknowledge and bend my overall view in light of new info.” – CP

What, exactly does this mean? Please share an example.

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[CP]

No – I’m saying the way you phrased your comment implied that you would only change your stance if you were found to be factually wrong. I don’t think anyone has asked you to defend why you are a Republican, but people have asked you to do so in a less inflamatory and more respectful, bullying manner.

While there is not an example on this blog, I can tell you that I supported McCain a year ago. As I have learned about his exaggerated efforts to expolit his war record, his extensive anger problem, his 90% approval rating of GWB’s votes – I changed my vote.

I will be honest in saying that the reverend Wright issue did have me questioning Barack Obama. I was disheartened that he personally is pro-choice. I don’t idolize him as I once did and that’s for the best and I think well informed. But my vote goes to him.

I could really care less how you vote and I don’t think I’ve made any insinuations that I want to know about your personal life. Nor am I interested in changing your vote – it’s your right, you are obviously an informed voter and that’s commendable.

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[Trisket]

GO OBAMA!

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[HT]

Would just like to add. This afternoon, put up a McCain sign in my front yard. Within TWO HOURS, it had been smashed down.

By way of contrast, I have left my neighbor’s Obama sign up and undisturbed for a couple of months.

Very classy, Obama supporters. That’s real support for democracy you’re showing there…but my sign goes up again tomorrow, only when I can keep an eye on it, of course. Since I now know I can’t trust you to be civil, I’ll be on my guard. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, etc. I’ll probably add a webcam soon, too, and hope to nab the sucker(s) in the act next time.

Expect future updates, on this and other blogs.

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[angelescrest]

Boy, jump to conclusions. Do you really know who took your sign? Perhaps these same “criminals” are apolitical, and are snatching anything they can. Hello–it’s Friday night; first week of school’s out!

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[HP]

HT, I am not a Mccain supporter but I would never smash down your sign. That is ignorant behavior. I am sorry that happened. And just because I support Obama does not indicate I lack class. If you tell me where to get a new Mccain sign I would bring it to you.(unless you decided to vote mccain because he picked palin) Just kidding LOL!! We are all entitled to our own vote.

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[HT]

angelescrest: pull the other one, it’s got bells on. As I mentioned, there are other (Obama) signs on the street that have been untouched for MONTHS. Odd that your hypothetical children would decide to start marauding on a Friday evening, a full four hours after they got off from school, and only pick McCain signs, though…

Interesting that you referred to the individuals responsible as “criminals”, because I didn’t. However, upon reflection I do note that they are interfering with my First Amendment rights, which probably is a criminal offense.

My intention is to put the sign up again, and catch them in the act the next time. At which point there will be enough evidence to convince even you, Mr. (or Ms.) Junior Prosecutor. Digital camera (or webcam) pictures available for any prosecutor (and website) that might be interested.

HP: thank you for your very kind offer. I have actually been a McCain supporter since 2000, though. But the sign that was smashed down was only damaged, not destroyed, and I have been able to repair it, so no replacement is necessary.

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[Trisket]

GO OBAMA!

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[angelescrest]

Let’s compromise, HT. Sorry your sign’s damaged, and I don’t know what your bell comment means. There are a bevy of McCain signs on my route home from school–they’ve been there for months. But, y’know, it’ll take your webcam to catch these “criminals” (it’s in quotes), and and it kind of irks me that you’d suggest Obama supporters lack class because of this incident. I get that you are angry; sorry.

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[JanS]

I, too, am sorry that this has happened…but jumping to the conclusion that it was simply an Obama supporter is not the answer. Perhaps it is. Perhaps not. Could be a Ron Paul supporter, or Bob Barr, or just someone who is filled with hate, or who knows. I guess your sleuthing will find that out…but don’t assume anything. Obama supporters are no more vandals than you are…don’t paint them with that broad brush.

Thanks…back to my hole now :)

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[HT]

angelescrest: the “bell” comment is about pulling my leg, as in “pull my other leg, it’s got bells on it”. Sorry, it’s not a very “hip” expression. But it used to be “the bee’s knees” when I was a “whippersnapper”.

Regarding the rest of the lawyer-ese, I understand that I do not yet have enough evidence for an actual conviction. However, I shave with Ockam’s Razor (please don’t tell me that expression has also gone out of style), and I assure you the odds are something like 500-to-1 that some peevish Obama supporter, driving up my street, just decided to knock down my sign because it offended them with it’s sheer…impertinence. But don’t worry, I’ll have photographic evidence the next time.

Incidentally, now that I think about it, this is probably a violation of my First Amendment rights. I don’t know who would prosecute such an offense, but I intend to make a couple of inquiries to find out…

If there is no legal recourse, there’s always the Internet for publicity.

JanS: Bob Barr or Ron Paul supporters? Really. No wait, maybe it was Santa Claus. However, a simple statistical analysis, especially in this area (heavily Democratic) would virtually eliminate those possibilities (well, except for Santa…he’s magical) at once.

As I said, however, these miscreants have laid the seeds of their own undoing. Because of when and how quickly they perpetrated their first deed, it will be very easy to simply set up the sign again and wait, camera in hand, to catch them in a repeat performance. Smile! Your license plate (and face) are going to be on Candid Camera!

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[acemotel]

ha ha ha thank you for a good Friday night laugh. With all the serious crimes in this city – children being KILLED, FGS, do you think anyone in the law enforcement or legal community cares a fig about your sign? Maybe in Alaska, where the police are politically motivated, but seriously? BTW, someone stole my Christmas light display in 2004 from in front of my house.

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[acemotel]

And ps. Let’s ask the first and basic question: what’s your damage?

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[JoB]

New Resident…

i have to point out that Obama appeared on the national stage 4 years ago with a phenomenal speech at the convention.

We knew who he was when he decided to run for the nomination.

You may think he came out of nowhere. but he has been on democratic radar for quite a while.

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[JoB]

HT..

what you know is someone damaged your sign..

what you think is that it was some crazed Obama supporter..

chances are it was a kid… obama supporter or not.. or a neighbor you really teed off.

either way.. put your sign back up.

i love to see McCain signs. It reminds me i have work to do.

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[akwesasne]

Someone on this blog says that Obama’s experience/ cv includes: “He was raised without a father” — I’m not sure I understand how that can possibly be a plus? It does add to his humanity and to his strength to carry on and achieve in the face of adversity, but is it really such a good thing? I’d say no. Does it have anything really to do with his ability to be a good President, again, I’d have to say …no. So many things are brought up on this forum that are so irrelevant as to be comical. I am convinced that both Republican and Democrats alike are both out to do what they truly believe is best for the country. I get very discouraged when I see people post global opinions regarding what a Democrat thinks or what a Republican’s motivations are… for example, that all Republicans are lying, cheating, power hungry, me first… ridiculous to polarize in such a way. No wonder we have so many petty comments in this thread. Yes, it sounds like people are cherry picking “facts” to support their opinions. Both candidates have obviously inspired about half of this nation! To say that either of them is a disgrace or ignorant, or inept is to basically say that half our nation is also all these things. I believe and have faith that either candidate will work things out to the very best of their ability with good intentions — I am not a dooms dayer and I can sleep well knowing that both parties have value and good points. I don’t agree with either party on many issues, but I believe the people are trying their best and will govern with integrity, whichever one wins. I believe in our process. I would like for folks to be a bit more open minded and try, really try, to walk in another’s shoes and see their point of view. It is a psychological thing that people find they have to do, villianize /demonize that which they don’t agree with or don’t understand -and it is fear based. I think of myself as middle of the road. I’ve voted for Nader in past elections… I can’t stand the ignorance espoused from the extremes on both sides of Repubs and Dems. I hate to say it, but the Dem opinions expressed on this forum seem like something from a Televangelist show for Dems! Very “opinionated” and “feeling” based, not really much substance. If you are interested at all in other peoples’ opinions/perceptions, then you might want to truly ponder why about half the nation will vote Dem and half Repub… there is a reason, and if you don’t make an effort to understand both perspectives, you are, and will remain out of touch – and most likely you will continue to feel angry and victimized. That is my two cents.

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[charlabob]

Very interesting post. I’m sorry your first post was about the kitty — that was very kind of you. Welcome to the noisy zones :-)

I’m curious why you singled out the Democrats on these forums as “extremists.” As one of the most extreme, I suspect it’s because WS (and S) are so Democratic that our opinions just show up more. I’ve certainly seen as much intolerance, proportionally, on the other side here and MUCH more intolerance in the real world.

A while back, I posted an explanation of how I came to be less even handed. Being even handed has, essentially, only come back to hurt the left. The right, for many years, has not shared that trait.

I do have to disagree with your notion that both sides have the country’s interest at heart. You have only to do a bit of research on who profited from the Iraq war to understand why.

After 8 years of Bush I find this election, quite simply, a matter of survival for the country I love and I will do whatever I can to make sure that the R’s don’t have a chance to do further damage. I cherish what we were and what we can become again and sincerely believe that 4 more years of this regime will make it virtually impossible to reclaim.

If you look at a list of issues, polling data has shown that the only one that draws a R majority is gun control. Everthing else, including “socialized medicine” shows a majority on the D side. So it seems likely that we’re out of touch.

The vote is private and should be, but I’m curious about two things — why you think most of the fault is on the D side and whether you plan to vote for Nader again?

And, as I said, welcome. I hope you stick around.

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[akwesasne]

I do not think most of the fault is on the D side. Why does it have to be any one side’s fault? Both party platforms have faults, in my opinion. Socialized medicine scares me. Gun control is a good thing. This is a liberal forum, so of course it is going to sound extreme if you are not left on all issues. I’m not left on all issues. We have it pretty darn good still here in the USA — even in this recession time…even, dare I say it, under George W. We are spoiled. I almost got sick, physically, when I went to a shopping mall the other day. Can things be better? Yes. Should we strive for better, yes. Is Obama the answer, maybe. Is it a sure thing? No. Is anything? What is the saying, the only sure thing in life is death and taxes? Say you were asleep, or in a deep freeze for a very long time…if you woke up one day and didn’t know who was President, a Dem or a Repub, how long would it take you to figure out — if you didn’t read the news, or the blogs, or hear anyone talking politics? What would you need to see or experience “happening” in your every day life to tell you that you were being governed by a D or an R? How would you know what party was at the helm? What is it we want to see happening, what needs to change, specifically, for us to feel like we’re making progress in America? When people say they don’t want 4 more years of the same old stuff, what exactly do they not want and what do they concede is working, anything? If you believe EVERYTHING is fu**d up, then that really is something. I see lots of good going on right now. I don’t contribute it to the administration. I contribute it to the fact that we do have a form of government that allows for individuals to operate in the world as such, and to impact their world as such. I believe I can still make a stand and have a significant impact if I so choose. Some of the Republican platform is supportive of me as an individual and my beliefs, some is not. Some of the Democratic platform supports my strivings for our world and for my community and for me, as an individual, some do not. As of this post, I do not know if I’ll vote for Nader again. There are many like me out there… undecided, but few are brave enough to express their opinions to the forceful left or right, it just isn’t worth the confrontation. Mostly folks on these blogs are either singing to the choir or throwing grease into the fire. I’m just bored here on Sat. morning and avoiding chores. Plus I enjoy other people’s opinions, even when we disagree. It gives me such hope!

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[Anonymous]

akwesasne, thank-you.

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[beachdrivegirl]

ditto JT! akwesasne, you have just spoken waht I think everyday!

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[Anonymous]

akwesasne – You’re a very wise man/woman.

Thanks for speaking up.

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[JoB]

akwesasne,

if you are white and middle class and male i suspect you wouldn’t much know who was governing you if you woke from a coma.. and it might take you some time to find out.

but if you were a woman, or poor, or not white or any combination, it wouldn’t take you long to figure it out by the options and/or assistance available to you.

You could watch the two conventions.. democratic and republican.. with the sound off and no subtitle and know which party which represented which people.

there were 37 black faces at the Republican national convention.

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[akwesasne]

JoB

That’s kind of funny I guess, unless you happen to be white, middle class, and male. You mention the convention as an indicator, but that is WATCHING something, and something that is highly orchestrated as to really be propoganda, that is not living something — my exercise was to have you rely strictly on your personal experiences in the world and not rely on others to tell you what you are or are not experiencing.

What I would like to have spelled out by anybody is this… what SPECIFIC options and/or assistance are you talking about that would be available to me if I had a Dem as my leader? What options or assistance would I be missing, specifically if I had a Dem for a leader vs. an R for a leader? What options would be avail with an R as leader, which would be missing? And mind you, there are a lot of white, middle class men in our society, so there needs to be government for them too :) If we have D as leader, we get something and we give up something. If we have R as a leader we get something and give up something. Apparently — but what are the somethings? List 10 things. I am not at all wise, I am seeking. I thank you all for your time.

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[JoB]

I was not trying to be funny.

I was actually stating the reality that you seem to miss…

but, let’s play the game your way.

What would be missing if the republicans were in charge for the next 4 years?

if you were a white male your girlfriend couldn’t get an abortion if you knocked her up… so if you weren’t ready to be a father and you didn’t want to assume financial responsibility for a child… you would have to somehow convince her to carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption…

finding 6 guys to say they slept with her won’t work any more with DNA tests… So plan on stepping up.

if you were a white male and you and your wife were having a baby and you found out that the baby was endangering your wife’s health.. that she would likely die if she carried the baby to term.. your wife would die.. and you may or may not have a very unhealthy child to raise on your own.

if you were a white male and your income wasn’t greater than 250,000, you would watch all of those tax breaks go to someone who made more money than you, especially if you weren’t buying a house.

you would worry about whether you could cover medical bills that weren’t covered by your insurance… whether you could afford the escalating co-pays on the medications you take to maintain your health and how on earth you were going to afford any kind of insurance once you retired… or if you could retire at all.

if you were a white male, you would wonder whether or not the fish you just caught from the local river was safe to eat since the EPA no longer has funding for river clean-up and the Bush administration changed the way that federal agencies assess risk to make it less likely that a polluter will have to cut back on the toxic waste they dump into your rivers…

none of those was a reach.. and i could go on for hours.

even if you are a white male.. who you choose to lead this county and the rules they choose to enforce make a difference as to whether you can expect quality public services or just lip service.

and most importantly, they will choose the next supreme court justices who will set the standard of law in this country.

If you want your descendent’s to enjoy at least the minimum standards of liberty you have benefited from, protecting civil liberty and free speech are imperative… and to be crass.. if the republicans retain control of the white house.. you can kiss those goodbye.

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[beachdrivegirl]

I think akwesasne’s point is or at least the reason why I agreed with his post is that as much as there are pro’s about the Democratic Party. There are some cons as well. And vice versa.

At least for me, I see pros and cons of both parties. I don’t think it is healthy as a society to be bound so closely to these two parties. What about Bob Barr? He is running but b/c of the system we have created he doesn’t have a shot in hell to get elected. It is disappointing when you think about it that way.

For example, as much as I love Obama, it sickens me that he voted against the banning of partial birth abortions. That child has a brain and can live @ that point. IMO, that is very wrong. See we can all admit weaknesses of each candidate, and each party. It is healthy. (Its kind of funny I had just talked about this very thing with some friends the other night!)

And on a side note I find it very disheartening that individuals feel like it is there right to get an abortion or to tell their g/f’s/wives etc to get an abortion just b/c they don’t feel like being a parent today! There are people that cant have children out there that will love and take in that child if you really aren’t ready and secondly I know someone that got an abortion in college and she has never fully been the same since. And the only reason why she got an abortion then is b/c she just didn’t quite feel like not partying anymore.

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