Gay Marriage, the Community, Social Justice…

[skeeter]

Very interesting conversation. Wake I want to quote you:

Quote #1: “That didn’t happen in a vacuum but it DID happen and FAST”

Quote #2: “How did that happen and why can’t we replicate it?”

Regarding quote #1, I agree with you 1,000 percent. I am shocked at how quickly this turn came about. I don’t have as many years on this earth as others but I cannot remember a single issue with anywhere near such an *incredibly* rapid change in public opinion.

Regarding quote #2: Here’s my thought. We can’t replicate it. The reason why we can’t replicate it is we don’t know what caused it in the first place. Why did so many Americans change their opinion so quickly? I only know one person who publicly stated he was against gay marriage and then later publicly stated he was in favor of gay marriage and then explained why. That one person is President Obama. (I’m sure there are others – I just don’t know their stories.) And even the one story I have is not useful to me because I don’t believe him. I think Obama was always in favor of gay marriage but he just wasn’t allowed to say so back in 2008 to get elected.

I’d love to hear from people who changed their opinion on gay marriage and why. Only then could I venture a guess on how we could replicate such a change.

Share This

[wakeflood]

Skeets, I surely don’t have the whole answer to the question but I AM reasonably sure that my one or both of my ideas (they are linked thoughts) are at least SOME? part of it. At least for the folks who were truly against it at some point.

I suspect those elements I mention help explain the speed of the turnaround. Maybe not the impetus for the change of heart piece but they grease the skids for the accelerated adoption of a new default position – which I suggest is perfect for America. That being… I now don’t care enough about it to put up any opposition!

That’s my best guess to date.

Share This

[wakeflood]

elikapedia: ” I don’t think you can ever take a group and expect them to support any other issue. People are too complex.”

You would think…well, unless you’re a marketer or a neuroscientist. What do they have in common? Both have workable models for manipulation of human activity. They’re not 100% to be sure but they’re continually improving their understanding of why and how humans make decisions and perform certain actions.

We’re more Pavlovian than we care to admit.

Share This

[wakeflood]

Example: Think about how many folks – and I’d bet ALOT of $ that most consider themselves freethinkers – have been converted into mouthpieces of pablum via Fox News.

It’s a walking army of people who couldn’t give you one solid reason or piece of legitimate data why they feel strongly about some damn thing – say, Benghazi – but they’ll tell you they KNOW there’s a conspiracy. And they’ll only go as far as the talking point led them.

Share This

[wakeflood]

And I do agree, elikapedia, that part of the turnaround was due to the overblown nature of the perceived “threat” that never materialized – re: gay marriage.

Once that idea was shown to be demonstrably false, a big barrier dissipated.

All this discussion makes me want to revisit Gladwell’s Tipping Point to see if other connections are obvious.

Share This

[dhg]

Wakeflood: What you are proposing IS happening already, just not in the way you analyze it. People belong to many groups and they support many projects. As the issue of gay rights fades, that desire to make change and contribute to society will be re-focused. (It won’t be like the March of Dimes, which once advertised itself as working to put itself out of business. Once polio was conquered they went on to other causes.) The likely outcome is that time and money will pour less into the gay rights coffers as gay and straight see other causes that need more attention.

Share This

[nickn]

I speak as a gay person who has worked on issues like gay rights.

The Gay and Lesbian Community is not a monolith. Not surprisingly, as a community, it puts a priority on gay issues, as much as you think there are better places to put that energy. “If I am not for myself, who will be? And when I am for myself, what am ‘I’? And if not now, when?”

As pointed out by an earlier poster there are only 19 states where it’s legal. While progress seems to be rapid, there’s still a Supreme Court ruling that will be needed which is not assured.

After that there are plenty of other issues specific to Gays and Lesbians; dealing with the Republican rollback of laws if they take control of Congress, non legal changes convincing Churches to accept Gays and dealing with the way they treat Gay Families; Dealing with International Issues like Death Penalties for Homosexuals in Dubai and Uganda. Dealing with the way Gay teenagers are abused in many school systems. There are still many places in the US where it’s not particularly safe to be an out gay person.

These are likely to be areas where the Gay Community will act as a coalition of many sub groups to continue the work.

I’ll also point out that while the change has become increasingly rapid, this is not a one year event. It’s been something that’s been worked on for 50 to a 100 years if you include the struggle to be out and legal. Much of that time, there was very little or no support from progressive elements. Note that President Obama was busy evolving on the subject until it was clear that the majority of Americans were in favor of allowing it. Not also that many of the religious groups that make up the progressive coalition for social justice actively oppose same-sex marriage.

As for other projects that you think are important, there are gays and lesbians in all those groups already. It’s not worth trying to unify a very disparate community. That unity didn’t even really happen with Gay Marriage. Many activists did not think it was a priority until it began to become successful. A unified effort by the Gay Community does not have a special revered status in the larger world.

Share This

[Author]

Posts