Does West Seattle want Ted Tripp?

[Zenguy]

It is a nice little place to be with some great views.

Thanks for the kind words on our keeping it even keeled in hot topics, although in the heat of the moment is does not always feel that way.

I cannot believe you got flack for posting that in Ballard, I thought they were more enlightened…the lutefisk must be rotting their brains.

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[WSratsinacage]

I haven’t looked up the blog in Ballard but it is sad that they are not sympathetic.

JoB I was thinking the same thing last night as far as WWJD. I don’t think He would hit so it’s amazing that churches would administer or promote hitting in any form.

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[acemotel]

Please post here if a boycott is planned. I will try to get some ppl to come. Although I don’t share the experience, it makes me sick to my stomach to hear this guy’s philosophy and to hear some of your stories. To think of people hitting innocent children, and BABIES! with paddles and switches? There is surely a special place in hell for these angry and hateful parents, vermin of the human race.

And big hug to those of you who had to walk through fire on hot coals to get here.

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[JoB]

i have committed to a protest at the Ballard church where the main event will be held…

but i would also like to see a protest at the west Seattle location where it will be broadcast.

i had an idea i don’t know if i can sell yet.. but i like the idea of a silent protest with those who have suffered abuse in white full face masks with tears on them… and signs, of course.

i would love to see those at every church that it it is broadcast, but am unsure how we can generate that much attention.. and if we did how i would finance that many masks:)

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[Concernedparent]

I’ve set up a google group for anyone who is interested in taking part in a protest. Please join to get email updates on our progress.

http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting

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[Wes]

Just wondering, has anyone read this book? Is any of this in context?

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[Zenguy]

I thought about that myself. I do not want to be accused of complaining about something I have not read, on the other hand I do not want to buy it and support his views. I settled for reading EVERY review (240 of them) on Amazon. The reviews are almost all one star (88) or five stars (119) and gave me enough information to make an informed (IMO) decision.

This exerpt is from a nursing student working on a thesis on child education whom read the book.

p.114 Tripp answers the concern of a parent: “I’m afraid of being arrested for child abuse.” This is his answer: “There is validity to this concern. You must be careful to avoid unnecessary exposure to being reported by someone who does not approve of spanking. Spanking should be done in the privacy of the home.”

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[WSratsinacage]

I have thought about context too. Maybe there are some good non abusive tips? But the fact that one reviewer said it was the most sickening thing he/she read, reading the amazon reviews, and book excerpts, it is non-negotiable to me.

I hope that parents who belong to Mars Hill that plan to go to this Ted Tripp thing will see excerpts of his book on line and nico’s blog, etc and decide not to go! This is not the way to love your children or parent them. All I can think of is that it’s an excuse for being able to vent anger at someone. Why a church, with all the trouble organized religion has had in the media this decade, would chose to have someone who advocates not spanking with an open hand but using sever pain inflicting instruments on those children who may now better or not is foreign to me. It is criminal. I’d like to beat Ted ass but he would probably enjoy it.

I sent Mars Hill an email but you can’t reason with crazy.

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[Wes]

I understand reading reviews to gain perspective, but couldn’t that reviewer be biased in a big way towards any discipline, authority, or Christianity?

I myself have not read the book, nor have heard Ted Tripp speak on these issues, so I can not make that informed of a decision about his belief on these topics.

I know if I ever wrote a book on a subject and someone disagreed, that I would hope they have read it first to get the whole picture. Especially before they decide to tarnish my name.

I mean a bias towards a person’s beliefs already can make you not want to have anything to do with them any ways, and you wouldn’t listen to them either, right?

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[Zenguy]

That was why I read all 240 of the reviews to make sure I was getting a balanced perspective and as I stated above you have pretty much only loved it and hated it.

Any book that advocates spanking and then advises parents to do it in the privacy of their homes because it might be illegal and tries to disguise abuse as a teaching from God is enough for me!

I grew up in a house with much worse than spankings and if I can save one kid from the upbringing I had it will be worth it.

I am shaking as I sit here and type this.

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[JoB]

Wes,

i shared your concern.. and i probably will either go buy his book or go spend some time with it where i can read it without buying it because i plan to use quotes from that book to make my point.

if there are no quotes, there will be no point.

but i have to agree with zenguy.. if someone is telling you how to avoid getting caught for breaking the law concerning physical punishment of your children.. it does not bode well.

and the fact that the reviews were one star or five star tells me that there were controversial views expressed.

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[Wes]

Could that be in the book because some are so against spanking, no matter what form, that they would call the police?

I am against beating your child but if I have gone through all avenues of other discipline with my child and it’s a matter of life and death that they get the point, I will spank, but it would never be done out of anger, nor would it ever be commonplace.

I am sorry for those of you that were abused as children I pray that you can be completely healed from it.

I would also say, that if someone abuses you and it’s for “belief” reasons, not to discredit the entire beliefs system because of it.

As one person said, “Never judge a worldview based of it’s abuse, but based off the teachings and teacher of those views.”

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[JoB]

Wes,

i notice that you mention spanking as a last resort… He is talking about physically disciplining infants and toddlers..

There is a huge difference…

That kind of behavior is why there are now laws in place to prevent the beating of children by their parents.

I don’t write off the entire belief system.. but if we are going to allow belief systems to justify behavior.. women will be stoned in our streets… they will be genitally mutilated in the name of purity… women and children will be beaten and we will sanction murder if the person thought they had a righteous motive…

There is behavior we as a society have decided is not acceptable behavior for the health of our society… and we didn’t make any exceptions in the law for religious beliefs.

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[Anonymous]

Wes, I read the reviews and came away feeling it was the rational christians voicing outrage, not anti-religious or anti-discipline persons. At least they self professed to be christians. When someone considers a squirming baby during a diaper change, rebellious and in need of discipline, they lack a basic understanding of child behavior and have no right to be teaching anything.

Babies can not communicate in any other way but movement or sound. They could be expressing a huge range of emotions.

I encourage you to read the reviews for yourself. A great many of them go into detail about the contents and provide excerpts from the book.

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[Wes]

It was a book I considered reading in the past, but since the reviews were mixed I decided not to buy it.

Again, I am sorry for those hurt and abused, it does break my heart, I was just wondering if anyone read it.

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[Concernedparent]

I just wanted to share a response I got from someone who is helping me from out of state;

I just spoke to them. It is a two day event,

so the same people will be there both days.

She said it could be up to 1000 and the cost

will be 35. per couple and 25 per single.

1. Tax Exempt! Arg…

2. 1000 parents who will soon be abusing their babies

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[Wes]

Concernedparent, are you sure that 1000 people are going to go home and abuse their children? I have read ideas from authors and have rejected what they wrote. Just because I go and listen to them doesn’t mean I will subscribe to everything they say. Just like reading the opinions on the forum, some are noteworthy and are good for consideration and some are not. Eat the meat and spitout the bones.

Is there any parents who tried the methods within the book and found them ineffective? Also, all kids are different and need to be spoken to and disciplined in different ways, does this book advocate that it’s spanking or nothing?

Again, I am just asking because I do not know and some are claiming they do.

If you go to the resurgence, you can find all this info out too.

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[thee]

instead of buying this guy’s typing, why not purchase christopher hitchens’ “god is not great” where you’ll find a nice chapter devoted to the abuses organized religion heaps upon society’s most innocent and defenseless actors — children.

thee

yr friendly w. seattle athiest

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[Nico]

Wes said: “Eat the meat and spitout the bones.

Is there any parents who tried the methods within the book and found them ineffective?”

This is the way that family members of mine got hooked on the Pearls, who wrote a hideous book called “To Train Up a Child”, which credits Amish animal training techniques for some of its ideas.

The Amish, by the way, are not that nice to animals. I can’t tell you how this hurt my family.

In many cases, once parents have given the author enough credibility to use some of his/her techniques, it is not long before they do it all.

Wes said: “Also, all kids are different and need to be spoken to and disciplined in different ways, does this book advocate that it’s spanking or nothing?”

Yes, that is what it advocates. One is allowed to speak to the child too, of course, but your conversation will be limited with a pre-verbal infant or toddler, which is what we were talking about. So it’s all “rod” and no “reproof” for them.

From Tripp’s book:

p.153 “Because you are dealing with young children, there is a heavy emphasis on the undeniably tactile experience of spanking.”

p.74 “A biblical approach to children involves two elements that you weave together. One element is rich, full communication. The other is the rod. ‘

I’m blogging about this here:

http://nicolalimmea.bravejournal.com/

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[Anonymous]

“Eat the meat and spit out the bones”

When the bones are child abuse, it’s not that simple Wes. If one parent takes this advice and applies it as my parents did, it’s one child too many that will suffer. I don’t think you understand how some households live the “god-fearing” lifestyle. There aren’t enough medications or therapy (or prayer, as you would say) to reverse that damage.

You’re also assuming all those who attend have the maturity and wisdom to negate incorrect information. As you know, in my opinion, if they had either of those they wouldn’t be in church in the first place.

And when in doubt, I always side with protecting the child, not appeasing the adults.

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[Concernedparent]

Ok, yes I was probably a bit reactionary on that figure but it’s what came to my mind first when I read that. But honestly just 1 is enough for me.

I just read through the Amazon reviews and am just sad that there are people who actually believe that babies are born evil and God wants to punish them. What was more disturbing was the comments left on the 1 star reviews, I think these people are delusional and angry.

“Tripp is talking about trying to train the heart of a child-a child who, like the rest of us, has a sinful will that seeks it’s own good at the expense of others. It’s not something you can just cuddle out of them.”

I look at my beautiful 9 month baby girl, light of my life, and can’t imagine how anyone would do the things that are advocated in this book.

I see there is outrage, let’s do something! Please join my google group so I know if there is interest so I don’t give up…

http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting

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[JanS]

JT…you used the term “appeasing the adults.” That’s what spanking is. It is all about the adult – yes, I’m speaking as a parent who has spanked. And I cannot ever remember a time when it was a positive experience for my child. It was to either just clear the air or make it easier for myself to deal with whatever the issue was, than really deal with it in an adult, thoughtful way. She reads this forum…I’m sure she’ll tell you that it wasn’t terrible,that it didn’t happen often, and that she has turned out just fine…but that’s because she loves me.

And I never even thought of it as “discipline”. I hate that word…had an acquaintance who would use it (yes, born again) and then actually discipline her child when all that child was doing was being a child(even in public at a restaurant). I felt that it did nothing but put fear in him…she expected him to act like a little adult at the age of 5 and 6…

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[JoB]

i read nicos blog page and have a clearer understanding of the timing on this event.

this is a two day two part event… not one lecture shown twice… starting on friday night… a little over a week from now.

we need to put something together asap…

http://groups.google.com/group/stopthehitting

this is the meeting space.

i will start posting there in the morning and will do my best to help put something meaningful together

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[WSratsinacage]

Just wanted to let everyone know that more than one tv station is looking into doing a story, if they haven’t already.

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[Zenguy]

I cannot believe that we are debating hitting kids, it is just plain wrong! I don’t care how you justify it or under what circumstances, it is wrong, wrong ,wrong.

I am going to go buy the book, hopefully at Half Price books…this just burns my a…

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[Author]

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