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August 19, 2009 at 6:55 pm #591972
JoBParticipantI sent this by email in response to the repeated requests from different factions of my party to add my number to those “participating” in The President’s nationwide town hall meeting tomorrow..
I know this is not well written.. but i am posting it anyway because the sentiments expressed are sincere..
and because I hope it will lend some perspective to republicans who seem to think we are headed lockstep into some kind of kool-aid fueled Obamamania socialism. That couldn’t be further from the truth.
I just wish that at least one Republican had stood up to say the same kind of things to their party that i find it necessary to say to mine… and had shared it.
I keep believing that somewhere out there we can still find citizens who are more concerned with the effectiveness of legislation than partisan politics…
“
“I am going to tell you the same thing I told the president via his website…
what it boils down to is this.. expecting me to stand up and support a position that is already so far compromised from what we need and accept even further compromise is pretty much futile.
I am disabled and expending energy is incredibly expensive for me. Showing up..even by phone.. is expensive.. and i only do that for something i can justify. I can’t justify this.
I am expending tons of energy on more internet conversations than i care to have to remind people that single payer is the ideal.. and that is the ideal that most of the attacks are based on.. not the already soiled compromise of public option.
All negotiating tools were given away once the assumption that everyone would be insured was written into any reform without the accompanying assumption that everyone would have access to affordable insurance.
This is NOT a bipartisan effort and every attempt to portray any compromise as an effort at bipartisanship is nothing more than a smoke screen. No matter how far the public interest in health reform is negotiated away.. the republican block will stand up as a block at the end and vote against it… it costs them absolutely nothing to make the public gesture.
If you are going to fail, why don’t you fail at attempting to give the American Public an actual solution instead of creating law that will further enrich insurance companies and leave citizens more at risk than they were to begin with.
what’s sad is that i have been able to redirect the conversation by doing nothing more than listening to concerns, debunking the worst of the lies and speaking common sense. If the elected members of my party had made even a portion of the effort to educate that i have.. there would be no need for this meeting because they all have access to a much wider audience than i.
If they were actually behind reform instead of trying to craft a compromise that would be politically advantageous to their personal careers and get them more campaign contributions, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
I am going to continue talking because i have realized that talking has been the most effective political tool of my lifetime… but if the democratic party wants my support in that talk, they will have to belly up and deliver to the ordinary citizen.
For that.. i would expend huge amounts of effort… at the cost of my quality of living for the next few years. I care that deeply.
the good news for America is that i am not alone.”
August 19, 2009 at 8:40 pm #675139
The Velvet BulldogParticipantWell said.
August 19, 2009 at 10:55 pm #675140
dhgParticipantI’ve already written to Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell several times; I showed up at Cantwell’s office once; I wrote to Obama. All with the same basic message: GO large or go home. I don’t want an insurance company making my medical decisions. We all did the impossible: we put 60 dems in the senate, we put the dems in charge of the White House, the House and the Senate. And STILL they whine that they can’t do anything.
August 19, 2009 at 11:51 pm #675141
The Velvet BulldogParticipantHere’s what I seriously don’t get: how did it become ok with all of us to let insurance companies decide what kind of health treatment we receive? When did we give our power to insurance companies to keep our money for their profits rather than our health and well-being, which is what we’re paying for? I would argue that our health care is being rationed NOW. I am dealing with an injury (hit-and-run car wreck) that my insurance company is starting to get weird about helping me out with. So wait, it’s MY money, I’m your CLIENT, I’m HURT, you’re not a doctor, but you’re gonna tell me you’re not going to help me get better?
I’m serious people: WHEN DID THIS BECOME OK???
August 19, 2009 at 11:53 pm #675142
The Velvet BulldogParticipantApologies to JoB if I got a bit off track there with my little rant! ;-) This issue definitely stirs up emotion–as it should. Thanks to those of you who are getting your voices out there. Looks like I’d better do the same!
August 20, 2009 at 12:16 am #675143
KenParticipantA little explanation for those who can’t understand why we can’t debate the issues.
Rachel Maddow – The GOP Miniverse. Enough said.
August 20, 2009 at 4:16 am #675144
JoBParticipantVelvet Bulldog…
You are talking about the very reasons why it is no longer enough to pay for insurance…
the magic word for the insurance company was deregulation…
and we swallowed it in the interests of advocating competition.
not working much for me but i hear the same old justifications retooled again and again.
shame on us to be fooled so many times the same way.
August 21, 2009 at 12:27 am #675145
HMC RichParticipantSeems like Obama is “confused…again”. My lefty friends would have said Bush was lying.
Maddow and the four big myths:
More people in general watch FoX News. I agree with her that more people that are conservative watch FoX News. I would venture to say more left leaning people watch MSNBC and to an extent CNN. Since polls show that more Americans are now considering themselves to be more conservative, the polling also seems to indicate loosely the viewing habits also. Liberal Bias, Conservative Bias, oh well. Choose your poison.
Maddow 4 big myths:
#3 Government Healthcare will pay for abortions.
AP Yahoo News Story
http://asia.news.yahoo.com/ap/20090805/twl-us-health-care-overhaul-abortion-ef375f8.html
Obama and crew are busted. AP wire confirms this.
Tieing it together
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/08/06/obamacare-would-use-tax-money-for-abortions-ap/
Rachel Maddow was wrong on that one.
August 21, 2009 at 12:32 am #675146
JiggersMemberSo it is all Obama’s fault why the economy is in such bad shape. Pfffttt.. If I said that the Republicans made this mess during Bush’s terms, you’ll all come out flaling away not taking responsibility. Obama inherited a hornets nest from everybody who was prez before him.
August 21, 2009 at 12:35 am #675147
HMC RichParticipantRegarding Maddow media bias: Non reporting by CNN makes the viewer think the Healthcare protestor is a conservative. Barney Frank was in fine form (Way to go Barney!) with the LaRouche idiot and the Obama/Hitler stache sign.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/cnn_fails_to_report_woman_comp.asp
The media seems to leave out certain facts when it is not a Republican but might want it to appear so. And Rachel wonders why conservatives watch Fox News more than CNN? Hmmm.
Personal Note: There may be some others out there doing this and they should be pointed out. Obama and crew have an agenda but comparing him to Hitler is just plain wrong.
Maddow wrong
August 21, 2009 at 12:42 am #675148
HMC RichParticipantJiggers, No, you are just wrong that is all. :)
Bush, Congress, and predecessors have all gotten us here to this point.
I think the internet and the variety of informational sources will actually allow the average citizen to learn even more about what is going on in Washington.
Ideologically speaking I know I cannot be correct all of the time. Hindsight is 20/20 and I do see more mistakes in the past than I care to admit. I just want everyone involved to take responsibility for their actions.
But for fun, I do like to prove “truth(ers)” statements wrong or at least an alternative view. Since “gate” is passe’ and -ers are the new paradigm.
August 21, 2009 at 12:45 am #675149
HMC RichParticipantActually Jiggers, I should clarify, Your last statement was right on. You thinking I will defend all Republican actions is not correct. Don’t worry. Ken will put me in my place.
August 21, 2009 at 12:46 am #675150
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
“most lefties” don’t watch MSNBC or CNN.. not if they are actually interested in news.
As i have already pointed out to you, there are left leaning news programs… and those programs make MSNBC and CNN look like little more than lackeys for the right… and Rachel Maddow look pretty centerist.
If you want to know what “we” are thinking, watch them.
I consider myself conservative. Our current president is actually conservative.
I don’t care how many times the Ultra conservative right co-ops the term.. there are lot of variations on conservative.
the president and I are both conservative democrats.. in spite of what you have been taught… not a contradiction in terms after all.
Yes, most of America is somewhat conservative.. especially if you ask them how they feel about socialized medicine…
just don’t mess with their medicare.
August 21, 2009 at 12:55 am #675151
JoBParticipantHMCRich…
“Rachel wonders why conservatives watch Fox News more than CNN? Hmmm.”
Could it be that they have been so bamboozled that they can no longer tell the difference between news and confrontation?
Could it be that they have given up using the brains they were supposedly trained to use in school in favor of simply accepting whatever crap is fed to them often enough to sound like the truth?
Could it be that they choose to listen only to that which verifies the lies they have already been told because they would feel like too big a fool if they examined any of those closely held beliefs for truth?
Because FOX news is the news organization that fought successfully for a ruling that said they were under no obligation to tell the truth even during a news program.
NO OBLIGATION TO TELL THE TRUTH…
They took that ruling seriously and have dropped most pretense of doing so.
A little fact checking would easily point out the lies and half truths masked as news and commentary on that network… but one would have to actually do some fact checking and reading and apply the little grey cells to figure it out.
And one would have to confront the assumption that any well thought out argument supported by facts is nothing more than socialist propaganda.
Steep learning curve there…
I hope you don’t lump yourself with that lot.
But i fear you do since this thread was about a democrat who questions what her party is doing and you chose to ignore that and jump on the “dump on Obama you are all a bunch of lefty socialist communists doing everything you can to turn America into a gulag” bandwagon.
what an immense waste of time.
August 21, 2009 at 12:56 am #675152
HMC RichParticipantMaddow 4 Big Myths
#2: Government Takeover.
This is from a absolutely right leaning blog. These are statements from Obama and others edited together. This is why the righties are saying there will be a government takeover because the sponsors have also said that when they are surrounded by like minded people. Then the PREZ spins it to sound conservative at the end. Watch the video.
Maddow wrong again.
August 21, 2009 at 12:59 am #675153
JoBParticipantHMC rich…
I apologize for the statement i just deleted.
I am more than impatient with people who repeat what they hear without bothering to find out if it is true.
You have said that you are surrounded by democrats here.. but i would point out that there is probably another distinction most of the residents of West Seattle and.. well democrats.. share.
We prefer reading to watching FOX news. In fact.. we prefer a lot to watching FOX news…
But we also prefer reading to many other activities and most of us read more than internet websites. We read newspapers (the source for most news.. even on those other news channels). We read books. We read notices. We read pamphlets. We read signs. We read.
The most interesting reading these days is who is funding the ad campaign and the “political activism” that is effectively shutting down conversation at town hall meetings about Health Care Reform.
Guess who?
Because we read, we reason too. The funding sources behind this campaign were no surprise to most of us because we asked ourselves.. who stands to benefit most if there is no meaningful health care reform?
Hmmm… guess who?
I heard a statistic last week that floored me. Did you know that you can graduate with a bachelors degree from colleges and universities in this nation without being able to pass basic reading comprehension tests? 30% of our graduates can’t.
So it is no wonder they have difficulty figuring out what is true and what isn’t as they put their feet up for an evening’s entertainment on FOX news.
You don’t have to be a democrat to read…
but you are far less likely to depend on FOX news for your political information if you do.
August 21, 2009 at 1:09 am #675154
HMC RichParticipantKen posted the Maddow video. It needed to be refuted.
Remember, Hillary Clinton said Fox was giving her evenhanded coverage compared to the other mainstream and cable media.
That case was many years ago. Other media entities have also ran into trouble. Hell Dan Rather lost his job because of a lie too.
You and I are smart about not trusting the government and the media. We have to be watchdogs too.
I commend you for questioning our President. I think he should stand firm for what he believes in. He should not be wishy washy and say one thing one day and another thing another day.
I am for single payer private option for healthcare for people between 18 and 65. I think SCHIP and Medicare should be used for the people who need it most, Mainly the young and old. I also believe there should still be medicaid for the less fortunate in the 18 to 65 range.
Also, if a public option becomes viable, then there has to be a private insurance option for the major illnesses in case you do not want to wait and have the operation or if the government won’t cover it. The government cannot provide effective care for everyone either, especially at the end of our lives.
August 21, 2009 at 1:27 am #675155
HMC RichParticipantMaddow 4 Big Myths
#1 Free Healthcare for Illegal immigrants:
She is correct. . . so far. An email with far too many pages has been traveling around and has been found to be wrong.
Here is where the righties are suspicious. Republican Senator Lamar Smith wrote this Op ED. http://thehill.com/op-eds/healthcare-scheme-would-benefit-illegal-immigrants-2009-08-03.html
An absolutely partisan opinion. We will see if the loopholes come into play.
Regardless, Maddow Correct.
August 21, 2009 at 1:34 am #675156
HMC RichParticipantYou know, she is correct about the GOP miniverse. It absolutely exists. Also people gossip and say strange things that become fact for a while.
Turn it around. How many of you watch CNN or MSNBC and listen to NPR or 1090 but don’t listen to the other alternatives. How many of you have your own favorites? Are they similar in nature and context? I am certain there are many people who check a variety of sources, but don’t you generally look at the sites you actually agree with more?
I find KIRO FM interesting. News – Dave Ross then Dori Monson then Ron and Don then TBTL etc. Not one agenda but many. I don’t mind that but I listened to Dory more than Dave.
August 21, 2009 at 1:35 am #675157
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
i didn’t bother linking to the Maddow video.. but i can tell you that it is faulty reasoning to believe that if you can find one fault with an argument, it must all be false.
I can see Rachel Maddow making an error and publicly correcting it on her next broadcast..and i don’t know that she has done so this time because i am not going to waste time with that false trail.. but faulty reasoning.. poor arguments.. intentional presentation of falsehoods to create her position? Not a chance. That’s why i know this is likely irrelevant.
Rachel Maddow.. and Dan Rather.. are likely to have unknowlingly passed on faulty information… No matter how well you fact check something is bound to pass through.
This is different than Fox news where they know they are passing along faulty information and still pass it along if it makes their point.
Did you notice that the only time Hillary Clinton said that FOX news was giving her evenhanded coverage was during a political campaign when she had reason not to offend FOX viewers?
All you have to do to see the bias in FOX news is watch one news segment.. hit pause.. and ask yourself if you have just been presented with a balanced news presentation… and weather reports don’t count.
As for the reporting on health care.. this notion
“if a public option becomes viable, then there has to be a private insurance option for the major illnesses in case you do not want to wait and have the operation or if the government won’t cover it.”
comes straight from FOX news misrepresentations.
It is possible that the government would engage in some form of health care rationing similar to that practiced in England and badly misrepresented in the United States if we adopted a single payer system… many states already do that with medicare which they administer. They do that because it is a government program that is funded by the state and the state has economic limitations.
Your insurance company does so now to increase profit.
However, the government wouldn’t be making those kinds of policy decisions with a public option any more than they do with Medicare.. or with govt employees insurance program.. or with health care for the military… or… than your current insurance company does.
Now.. i wonder how you could have become confused about that? Could it be because you keep hearing the canadian model or the british model being compared to the Public option?
oranges and apples… but you won’t get that comparison on FOX news.
August 21, 2009 at 1:48 am #675158
JoBParticipantHMCRich..
of course i have some sources i listen to or read more than others.
I don’t tend to read the Huffington Post because it has prospered using many of the same tactics as the neo-con news sources.. too much sensationalized “news” for me.
However, if i find that fact checking any news source i read leads me to untruths that are not immediately corrected, i stop listening to or reading them.
if an NPR new story interests me, i check it’s veracity before repeating it… i once took them on faith, but not now.. although they do normally correct faulty information eventually.
This conversation isn’t about “people” repeating gossip.. it’s about the most popular cable news station repeating gossip as news.
I’m tired and cranky and hubby will be home soon for dinner so i am done here.
August 21, 2009 at 1:51 am #675159
JoBParticipantBTW…
i am very upset that our President puts so much political stock in the opinions of people who have accepted blatant lies as truth…
i personally think it is his obligation.. and that of the democratic party leaders.. to do some education instead.
all we can get this way is the lowest common denominator…
But hey.. i actually expect governing from my elected representatives..
August 21, 2009 at 1:51 am #675160
HMC RichParticipantJoB post 13. I missed that one.
Did you know that the term Traditional Liberals is considered to be todays “Republicans or conservatives”?
Did you know that Fascism and Some Socialism was considered right wing because it was right of Joseph Stalin’s thinking.
The language and meanings change.
Mussolini coined the term totalitarian. In the early 20th century it was not a bad word.
You may consider yourself conservative but I do not believe you fit the Edmund Burke and Adam Smith model. For that matter, you could be right that Rush and Newt are somewhat ultra right But I do not believe the people in the FLY OVER states would agree with you. Just an opinion.
Roman is waking up. Nice arguing with you. I hope to see you SOON!
August 21, 2009 at 2:44 am #675161
JoBParticipantdid you know that one of the core groups of right wing conservatives promotes fascism?
read “The Family” ….
Things are not as quite as they seem in political circles.. the heartland of America would be appalled at the goals of some of those they support.
that is, if they bothered to read enough to know what they say to one another… not what they say to get elected.
August 21, 2009 at 3:52 am #675162
WSMomParticipanthttp://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_National_819513.pdf
Notice Question #2 asked if the people being polled thought the government should ‘stay out of Medicare,’ something inherently impossible. 39% said yes. If we are waiting for public consensus on health care reform, I don’t think it’s possible.
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