Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Compromise…Why is this so hard?
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June 28, 2012 at 6:59 pm #603778
365StairsParticipantPersonally, Professionally, Politically…do you find it hard to compromise your positions or actions?
Can you compromise on the “little things” or all things – even the ones that really matter to you (most of us)?
I can sort of visualize the many core reasons this is so hard for our country’s elected officials can’t seem to find a balance…
I even get that you can be so passionate about something that any other view or action contrary is just absurd.
But if you take the time to listen..really listen to the other side (because there are always two or more sides)…and not just dismiss them because they are of the “other” party or conflict with your inherent views or facts…perhaps a little bit of compromise is possible.
I am certainly guilty of guffaw (talk to the hand)and simple dictatorship from time to time…a decision has to be made and since I am in charge…get er’ done…and by the way…NOW!
But I believe I find common ground more often than not. Not because I don’t like conflict or a healthy debate..but really I want to move forward…get the problem solved and you do this better when the team is on board. I learn from others views…many views from this forum are very educational!
Compromise does inherently come with sacrifice. You cannot please everyone. We all have a stake…we all have to give a little to get a little. This is not socialist…this is common sense.
Common sense means something different to each of us…but I firmly believe you have to understand the basics of problem solving to get to the goal. You have to get passed “trivial” matters quickly…(if you are the details person…speak up…get your bullets in the plan…or we move on!)…
Tolerance and Patience play a key role. I speak for myself this is my biggest area of opportunity. Few things happen fast enough for me…and to my detriment at times I miss the point. I am learning…and growing!
I believe some solid foundations are built on compromise, common sense, tolerance, and patience. Like minded people learning from other people of a different like mind.
This little rambling is just to say I have learned a lot from you…and I appreciate your input! Thanks WSB for the venue!
June 28, 2012 at 7:40 pm #762139
JanSParticipantI quite understand what you’re saying. Some of the discussions on here get a bit testy at times, and I’m just as guilty as the next person .Being told every time you post something that you’re a lefty liberal naive person that doesn’t know what you’re talking about doesn’t help. Taking a stand like you know more than just about anyone in the world, and are the only expert on everything, doesn’t help. It kills some good discussions. I have been known to walk away from some threads because I don’t feel like being insulted again. I do wish that some (including me) would sometimes approach a discussion on here with a gentler nature. When we think our way is the only way, it leaves little room for compromise, for learning, for give and take. And it prevents a lot of people from ever contributing at all.
And, yes, Thanks to WSB for providing this forum for us…to learn, to teach, to disagree, to agree.
June 29, 2012 at 12:07 am #762140
DBPMemberVery well said, YearSteps. Hope this thread gets the response it deserves. (If you hear crickets, it must be because people are still chewing on all the food for thought.)
Jan, you’re plenty gentle, but you can also stand tough when you need to. And no matter what, you always speak from the heart.
Don’t evah change that.
June 29, 2012 at 5:44 am #762141
JVMemberOkay I’ll bite.
Hi, I’m JV and I’m proudly to the Right of most on the WSB. I’m a bit of a wise ass, and often called sarcastic and snarky. (both are over used terms btw). You already know where I’m coming from, but I’ll try to be as even handed as possible in this analysis.
So why is it hard to compromise?
Sometimes I have to come at an issue with a strong post because I know I’m going to be out numbered 5+ to 1, so I have to be bold, or my point will be forgotten. Some take offense and say I’m rude..they are right…this isn’t a PTA meeting, this is politics!
Some don’t like to hear differing opinions, and some have never heard or thought about another perspective, so they instinctively think I’m wrong. In these cases, I’m not here to compromise, I’m here to persuade people in the middle and let everyone know why that logic is flawed.
On the other hand, there are times where we are having a non controversial discussion, and somebody will take a random shot just because, “that point came from JV, it must be wrong…Who are you to say that water is wet, Mr. Smarty Pants!”
Now, I admit that I may have created that monster by being controversial…BUT we should be able to recognize when REAL compromise is within our grasp. Sometimes we see a reply from a poster with whom we typically disagree, and we reflexively go into attack/defend mode instead of, “Let’s look at where we agree and start there” mode. We all do it.
The solution? What if we read comments BEFORE we see who posted it?
June 29, 2012 at 6:21 am #762142
JanSParticipantno, you’re wrong…this is the West Seattle Blog forum…and we are guests here. You can comment on what has been said, but you can’t comment on the person making the comment. It’s a long standing rule of the editor. We all comply, because we don’t want the editor to take it away. Civility really isn’t that difficult. It’s difficult to read your meaning into a typed sentence….you may mean snarky and sarcastic, but people will take it as truth…sometimes it just doesn’t compute. You’re an intelligent guy. We shouldn’t have to explain that to you.
June 29, 2012 at 7:49 am #762143
kootchmanMemberNot all compromise is a good thing. Far from it.
June 29, 2012 at 4:38 pm #762144
365StairsParticipantThanks for the input! You’re correct, some people just don’t want to hear after they had their chance. Admitting you may have caused some folks to think twice about your specific posts due to past sarcasim is a strong acknowledgment.
When you know your position well and have the apparent sources to back up your statements; you create an entrenched and fortified position – against that 5 to 1 ratio. You want to point out where other’s logic is flawed? Perhaps a little “shoe on the other foot” approach could be considered next time. You don’t always have to be right.
Even in politics (especially in politics), how can you say that something is 100% the best way to think – when the very political foundations we built this nation on were born from compromise. I would love to have been a fly on the wall during the writing of the Constitution – how many drafts do you think that took? The Bill of Rights…and every law since. Filled with compromise (and a little too much pork too now a days)…I digress.
Kootchman – your input is valid and I agree. Sometimes the one in charge or the lone wolf has to make the call (based on all input) and take the heat or the win…depending on their outcome. As long as that person is accountable to themselves and their team…make the call – but be ready to face the music…
If the initial reaction to a forum statement is defensive; remember what JanS said…you can’t always understand true meaning from this type of forum. But being defensive is a personal thing. It’s hard not to take some things personal when comments go against your belief structure…but thats when tolerance should kick in.
It can’t all be fun..but it can be civil. I Agree!
DBP – for the record…you rock dude!
June 29, 2012 at 5:52 pm #762145
JVMemberMy words:
On the other hand, there are times where we are having a non controversial discussion, and somebody will take a random shot just because, “that point came from JV, it must be wrong…Who are you to say that water is wet, Mr. Smarty Pants!”
The very next post from JanS
no, you’re wrong…
I love it! It’s like I’m tellin’ the future here!
June 29, 2012 at 6:23 pm #762146
JanSParticipantyou are being sarcastic now, aren’t you. I was commenting on what yu said. For goodness sake, you can’t come on here and dictate what others say. You want us to come on here, kiss your arse, tell you you’re right, praise Kootch, and leave. Life simply doesn’t work that way. You only got as far as the first three words of my post, didn’t read the rest, and really don’t give a damn what others say, do you? And you want us to listen to you because you’re always right? Pffffttt!!!!
Have a great weekend, JV :)
June 29, 2012 at 6:46 pm #762147
365StairsParticipantJune 29, 2012 at 8:37 pm #762148
BostonmanMemberI think this thread is the perfect summation of everything wrong with the forums here.
So full of win.
June 29, 2012 at 8:39 pm #762149
JanSParticipant365 stairs…I think I’m going to go finish that bottle of wine now and mellow out :)
June 29, 2012 at 8:40 pm #762150
kootchmanMemberwhat pray tell dragged Kootch into your rant? Are you THAT insecure?
June 29, 2012 at 8:45 pm #762151
JanSParticipantlolol…JV once state that we should regard you as the professor here( I suppose any other place I’d call that “kissing up”)…that’s what I was referring to. Insecure? Not on your life, buster :)
June 29, 2012 at 9:55 pm #762152
WSratsinacageMemberI am glad there are more conservative voices. I remember, years ago, when I got my butt kicked every time I opened my mouth.. as if only liberal voices were allowed. Not a very open minded/democratic behaviour. Back then, the only forum members who leaned to the right were me and NR (New Resident) she got banned though.
June 30, 2012 at 12:15 am #762153
DBPMemberOne obstacle to productive discussions is something I call the “argument by proxy.”
If you follow political discussion here, you’ll notice that people on all sides regularly get sucked into arguing over matters they don’t have a stake in and defending people reflexively, out of loyalty, rather than out of concern for finding some greater truth.
:-(
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Example A
A bureaucrat in the Obama administration stonewalls Congress over a criminal investigation. Republicans wave this in the face of Democrats saying: How can you defend this behavior?
Example B
Candidate Romney makes a gaffe about working people in a public speech. Democrats pounce, (What a heartless bastard!) and Republicans feel obliged to defend Romney and then counterattack with some new red herring about Obama.
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—So . . . what to do about proxy arguments?
The best way to disarm an argument by proxy is to ignore it. Whatever you do, don’t try to defend the indefensible. If someone on your “side” is caught doing something wrong or foolish, just ackwnowledge it and move onto a more productive track. If your opponent won’t follow you onto the high road, people will see him for the troublemaker he is.
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Example C
Them: “Here’s an article says Romney and his college pals threw a chicken out of an airplane in 1974. How could you vote for a creep like that?”
You: “Yeah, that was dumb. I remember pulling a stunt like that in college. That was 30 years ago, though, so I think it’s safe to assume the guy has grown out of it. Anyway, I’m giving him the benefit of the doubt.”
Example D
Them: “Fifty trips on Air Force One and a million dollar tab? For golfing? Come on!”
You: “Uhh . . . weren’t we talking about the economy?”
June 30, 2012 at 12:22 am #762154
kootchmanMemberWhere in this thread was that comment? Keep focused. I know it’s hard when are consumed by the thoughts of Kootchman…. but you can’t have me. No matter how often I cross your mind. Dream of miws instead… he would puppy wiggle with delight. liberals are under assault from every quarter… bobble head nodding in agreement has lost its cache WSRiac… we will see in November what compromise is in the cards. 29 states won their lawsuit.. they don’t have to participate and receive no penalty if they don’t. The Young Guns… the millineals will find when their take home pay is 40% of what they earn… just what a bend over they got. Healthcare will be just like education… it will be two tiered… great doctors will get to pick and choose their patients, mediocre ones will deliver the public health services.
June 30, 2012 at 12:31 am #762155
Genesee HillParticipantHere is a compromise for you all:
The Seattle Times today endorsed Rob McKenna for Governor of the State of Washington.
My compromise is simple. I will cancel my subscription to the Seattle Times tomorrow, though I might have to wait until Monday. Just missed the 5:00 PM cut-off today.
My Waste Management recycle bin will certainly be a lot easier to move very soon.
June 30, 2012 at 12:37 am #762156
JanSParticipantGenesee Hill..I gave up on that particular rag years ago…sure does help my back when taking the trash out :)
June 30, 2012 at 12:50 am #762157
kootchmanMemberYour editing skills … when we talk about the economy, WFA is a headline issue not a red herring. Biden has spent over a million dollars to have Air Force 2 pick him up and fly him to and from from his vacation home in Delaware for golf trips. THAT does affect the economy. It wasteful use of precious tax resources. It violates the sense of contribution taxpayers used to feel. The president uses Air Force 1 as a campaign machine.. 6 in one day. “We” pay for that as a national command center Not a pander plane. JoB gets her “good citizen” feeling fron N’ville. Imagine if they said her food was crap, the clothing was tossed as unfashionable, and her donations were not appreciated? Think of the taxpayers who are railed against as not paying enough…. and watch the endless streams of waste and fraud abuse … and it is dismissed as “trivial”… a taxpayer who all their working life has paid only to find out that Joe Biden spends more in two years on his personal recreation than that poor sucker paid into the system? The sense of civic engagement is severed. Your GSA… want to raise MY taxes and then spend a million in Vegas, in deluxe suites, with hot tubs and then have the gall to tell me I don’t pull my share? I am a heartless conservative and a WA state civil servant steals over 65K in foodstamps, while knocking down a 86K year job? We rail about healthcare… and UW gets caught swindling over 250 million from Medicare.. and not one senior physician executive gets prison time? I feel fully justified in saying not one more damn dime. You are crappy stewards of our contributions to the national good. Funny as hell…. the banks are “too big to fail” …too big to manage. The fat hippo in the wallow pool who is too big to manage is in WA DC.
June 30, 2012 at 2:22 am #762158
DBPMemberkootchman: What you’re talking about are individual cases of unwise government spending which, even when aggregated, wouldn’t be a blip on the nation’s economic radar. I can certainly get on board with criticizing government waste, but it becomes a question of how much of your air time you want to devote to specific cases like this. Realistically, what are the chances of convincing someone to change their politics based on Joe Biden’s golf-junket tabs?
OK. But maybe you’re not trying to change people’s minds. So then . . . what ARE you trying to do, exactly?
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My sense from your posts is that you’re angry about a lot of stuff, not all of which has a bearing on current events. Believe me . . . I understand about anger. But when I’m here, I try (!) to be aware of how anger is influencing me and try to moderate that. At the same time, I try to stay focused on information that my readers are likely to see as relevant to their own interests.
June 30, 2012 at 2:48 am #762159
kootchmanMemberExactly my point!
“What you’re talking about are individual cases of unwise government spending which, even when aggregated, wouldn’t be a blip on the nation’s economic radar”
That’s like a comment I heard the other day… 20 billion is a government rounding error. It’s a culture set. It permeates both parties. The damage is in the disconnect. Rather reminiscent of “let then eat cake”… I am sure a cake is not that expensive either. Now those were angry people! The more the cultural tolerance builds for these individual cases… the more it costs. You don’t take it seriously, until you start adding the costs. The rational conclusion is there is a cultural attitude . “there’s lots more where that came from”… making the resource far more scarce makes its use more measured, judiciously applied, and conserved.
That;s my current state of evolution… can the Dr. Phil thing, it doesn’t suit you.
It is the economic radar.. it’s the canary in the coal mine. why give more? Tell me, if in your entire working life, you knew, after 45 years you were blessed enough to pay $500,000 in income taxes, and twice that was blown at a Vegas conference lasting three days. wouldn’t you feel the sucker? It breaks the faith, that we pay to protect and provide services. Think about it…. an entre life of tax burdens blown like monopoly money. Can’t grasp the concept why the resentment is brewing and growing? Rightly of wrongly, this is core foundation of what constitutes the TEA party. They don’t believe or trust “the system” that tolerates this waste of resources. Hey. what’s a gallon of trichlorethalyne dumped in the Duwamish? It’s got millions of gallons of water in it.. it’s a mere blip in the environmental health of our watershed. Probably won’t be detectable in an hour. Unless repeated thousands of times.
You think the rise of the TEA Party and the ilk will not affect the economics on a large scale? It’s got Democrats on edge for sure. It changed the entire complex of our government in the 10′ elections. Those are connectable dots.
Let’s take just two instances. They are only the actions of a “few”… the IRS estimates that it is under collecting to the tune of around 4-500 billion per year. I suspect more, but the IRS would not really like to say what many economists do say.. it could be as much as 700 billion or more. Those are individuals making those choices. Pretty much the odds are you get away with it. The audit rate is less than 2% … and the 100K small business owner is more likely to get hit by a truck then get audited. 40 years ago.. you were a pariah. Today?
Medicare? Let’s see two estimates what these “little malfeasance” errors really cost, or are estimated to cost.
$1.2 trillion a year, based on a 2008 report by
PricewaterhouseCoopers’ Health Research Institute.7
$600 to $850 billion a year, according to a
Thomson Reuters report8
Does that fit your definition of “big enough” to affect the economy? It does mine. when “aggregated” it’s a massive waste and fraud that cuts right to the sense of obligation. Y’know Mammoth Cave is merely small drops of water with a mere touch of atmospheric derived carbonic acid in it… drip by drip…
June 30, 2012 at 3:34 am #762160
DBPMemberOK, so let’s deconstruct your analogy, shall we?
1) Who said “Let them eat cake”? What was the context?
2) What is the significance of the “canary in a coalmine” metaphor?
[Don’t answer. I’ll save you the trouble.]
In both cases, you are implying that we are literally on the verge of a crisis. That if the starveling masses glimpse Joe and Bo putting on the veranda JUST ONE MORE TIME something will snap and there’ll be a mad rush on the palace doors. Because that’s how bad things are right now. People are starving to death in the streets.
Meanwhile the canary is beyond all worldly cares; he’s passed on to a better life. That can only mean one thing: The mine is filling with gas and OMG! OMG! OMG! We’re all gonna die!!!!
Ach! More questions . . . (and these I’m expecting you to answer.)
Question 1: Do you really believe these are the end times for America? It’s ok if you say yes, but in that case, a follow-up: How many months/weeks/days would you say we have left?
Question 2: What will you do if, when the appointed hour arrives (let’s pick a date out of a hat, say . . . November 3) and the world is still here. Then what will you do? Will you join a 12-step group for recovering eschatologists?
What if the group is led by Al Gore?
Hm.
On the other hand, maybe it would be easier if the world ended after all. I just hope the music is good, and I can see it all in glorious Technicolor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nn9p3UARXy0
June 30, 2012 at 3:53 am #762161
kootchmanMemberThe world as we know it is certainly in a precarious position. Fiscally we are a wreck. we are in crisis. We have yet the capacity to restore ourselves, We are in no more of an “end time” than any other civilization that has risen and fallen, usually by the combination of economics and governance. I think we can take plague off the table.
June 30, 2012 at 4:04 am #762162
kootchmanMemberMarie Antoinette when presented with the complaint that bread prices were too high, blithely replied ” let them eat cake then”. As you are well aware.
The canary is the extraordinary polarized world we co-exist in. Do tell, in this Q & A … are you willing to pass over WFA in such a cursory manner? At the moment, the TEA party movement is the majority movement by mere numbers count in the HR. That is a chirping little yellow bird. Two campfires on opposing hills… one saying we don’t trust you with more power and resources, the other saying we should have more and grant more. Ah, the vale of tears to follow because neither camp is at a point to compromise. That would be my take. In the meantime.. pick your camp.
Would you follow Al Gore?
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