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February 3, 2013 at 12:19 am #780500
dobroParticipantI regard it as comedy. Sometimes tragi-comedy to be sure. Maybe we need a WSB sit-com thread.
“Not Married Without Children.”
“The Shady Bunch”
“W(KRP)SB in Seattle”
“Doogie Preston MD”
“The Adventures of Dobro and Harriet”
On second thought, forget it.
February 3, 2013 at 4:34 pm #780501
redblackParticipantDP (et al):
I’m afraid that was all on account of the Great Tech Bubble, though, rather than anything the government might have done.
And that bubble done popped, my friend.
noted that you’re massaging the (fallacious) republican line that lower taxes lead to more revenue – and that it wasn’t higher marginal rates that generated the late-90’s budget surpluses.
but you’re still ignoring the original reagan-era cutting of revenues that began our decades of deficit spending.
why not restore at least some of the revenue stream, while simultaneously talking reasonably about areas where the budget is bloated?
and don’t forget what happened to the surplus that clinton’s budgets garnered: it was “given back” to the american people in the form of two sets of rebate checks instead of paying down the debt – like a sensible government would have done.
let’s see now… who wrote those checks? and then started an off-budget war?
sorry if that sounds partisan, but those are the facts of how we got here.
so instead of austerity for the tens of millions of folks who rely on government just to have food, minimal health care, and heating oil, why not tax it out of the people and industries who are sitting on their millions and respective billions instead of circulating it in the economy?
February 3, 2013 at 5:58 pm #780502
JoBParticipantredblack..
you forgot to add the fact that the people and industries sitting on their millions and respective billions have just had the most economically successful decade of their entire careers…
the failed economy has been bad for wage earners..
but very very good for those who can take advantage of the loss of the masses…
DBP.. you might ask yourself the question..
where would our deficit be if those who benefited so generously from the economic woes of the rest of us had been taxed at Clinton era rates for that transfer of wealth?
look it up.. it’s a staggering number.
February 3, 2013 at 10:46 pm #780503
dobroParticipantHere’s an article with many facts and charts detailing the failure of austerity as fiscal policy…
http://truth-out.org/news/item/14311-no-austerity-has-helped-the-economy
February 4, 2013 at 1:03 am #780504
DBPMemberThanks for the article, d.
Depending on how you set the parameters of your model (i.e., the time period you’re looking at), you can make a case for just about any economic policy you want. This is why economics is not considered a hard science. (Unless you’re a college student.)
Consider this, from the article you linked:
The column is interesting because it lays out [the recent history of austerity].
First the example was Ireland, which the head of the European Central Bank said in 2010 was “the role model for all of Europe’s debtor nations.” But events proved them wrong; Ireland is worse off today than it was back then. So then the U.K. became the touted model, until it wasn’t. Then little Latvia, which has recovered some, was pushed forward; but Latvia still has 14% unemployment. Hmm
–Yeah, Ireland is worse off today. Does that, in itself, prove that austerity doesn’t work? Or does it really just prove that austerity is no guarantee against financial downturns? There’s been a global downturn in recent years, and it’s hit countries across the financial-policy spectrum.
By this article’s logic you could also claim that capitalism itself doesn’t work because there are periodic depressions.
Was anyone really holding out austerity as some kind of failsafe against downturns? Or is this, mayhap, a strawman argument?
(Don’t tase me ‘bro. I’m just sayin’ . . .)
February 4, 2013 at 11:54 am #780505
S KepperMemberMr Redblack…
noted that you’re massaging the (fallacious) republican line that lower taxes lead to more revenue – and that it wasn’t higher marginal rates that generated the late-90’s budget surpluses.
Why do you never note that during that time public assistance rolls were cut 50 per cent? You conveniently also never seem to show that Clinton spending was 17.5 of GDP. Even so, he had the dot come bust to come a calling.
From the fiscal times:
As a matter of fact, income inequality under the Bush administration was less than it is today. At some point you are going to have to embrace the fact we are in year five of an administration and Mr. Bush is gone. Read the Fiscal Times article… it actually makes sense.
February 4, 2013 at 4:11 pm #780506
JoBParticipantFebruary 4, 2013 at 4:38 pm #780507
wakefloodParticipantDon’t worry about the Wheaties, JoB, it won’t help you sort out this mess. The “Fiscal Times” is a right wing rag that I confuse for the Onion every time I want to amuse myself with crazy propaganda.
And yes, I had tapped out of this discussion shaking my head days ago…
Have a nice day, ya’ll.
February 4, 2013 at 5:19 pm #780508
kgdlgParticipantwelcome back hoop, ahem, i mean s kepper!
February 4, 2013 at 5:39 pm #780509
JoBParticipantFebruary 4, 2013 at 6:00 pm #780510
S KepperMemberThe Kool Aid… if the shoe doesn’t fit… don’t admit it, hobble around and swear it was a good buy.
February 4, 2013 at 7:32 pm #780511
wakefloodParticipantHmmm…The Fiscal Times, your headquarters for all the latest and most whackjob Benghazi Conspiracy Theories and WE’RE the ones drinking the Kool Aid???
OK, I’m strolling over to the NON-Fiction section now.
February 4, 2013 at 8:31 pm #780512
DBPMemberwakeflood, did I ever thank you for the exquisite answer you gave to my question about what exactly you’re doing on this planet? (#192)
And did I ever thank you for your delightful reminiscence (in another thread) of how you, as young boy, brilliantly outmaneuvered the Roman Catholic hierarchy (and your dad) and foiled their attempts to commandeer your immortal soul?
And did I ever tell you how much I appreciate skeeter for pointing out that the Mother Church is always ready to forgive your apostasy and welcome you back into the fold?
Oh. I didn’t?
Well . . . I am now.
February 4, 2013 at 9:08 pm #780513
wakefloodParticipantShut up. Just…shut up. You had me at, “exquisite”. ;-)
Seriously though, self-medicating can get out of control. I know some help line numbers??
February 5, 2013 at 6:00 am #780514
HMC RichParticipantS Kepper, It was a perfectly rational article and since they cannot refute it they Alinsky it. It doesn’t matter that Morrisey also blamed Republicans for some of the housing crash.
They only have one way mirrors, and they put their half truths in a nice little box in the other room, look in the mirror and think all is well. It’s a shame. Or a sham. That “e” makes a bit of difference.
Problem is that the left does not take responsibility for its actions. They never will.
Look at Fast and Furious. An Executive Order to keep Holder out of trouble. Really! What about those Assault Rifles. Didn’t give a crap about hundreds of dead Mexicans. And they blamed Bush but the Bush version had been nixed.
When Reagan got caught in Iran Contra, he apologized. When Clinton got caught lying, he lied to us. Hillary at least took some responsibility for Benghazi and the heat for Obama who sold her out. And CBS Sharyl Attkisson has never had the admin giver her the information she has requested over Benghazi. It’s a sham, or shame.
A Democrat promise is like invisible ink. Looks nice when it is made, then it kind of goes away.
February 5, 2013 at 7:45 am #780515
JanSParticipantYou said it again….those evil Dems…the cause of all ills.
February 5, 2013 at 4:23 pm #780516
JoBParticipanthehehe..
even the IMF has figured out the austerity programs like the republicans are pushing may not be such a good idea…
and Japan? it’s launching an investment program to stimulate it’s economy.
even the IMF couldn’t ignore the facts forever.
how long do you think it will take for the Republicans to get it?
February 6, 2013 at 1:12 am #780517
wakefloodParticipantAs always, the goal being to bleed the masses up to the limit of but not actually storming the gates.
Tried and true method. Worked for millenia.
The only issue is that boundary gets a little gray from era to era so you have to experiment a bit.
February 6, 2013 at 2:25 am #780518
JoBParticipantFebruary 6, 2013 at 1:56 pm #780519
redblackParticipants kepper:
around and around we go.
no one disputes that when unemployment is low, government has more revenue and fewer people need government assistance.
what we are saying is that cutting taxes on the only people making money during a recession is pretty stupid.
and cutting government assistance at a time when more people need it is even dumber. as a matter of fact, that’s just cruelty disguised as tough love, and it makes republicans look worse than ebenezer scrooge.
nonetheless, cutting taxes at a time when debt-to-GDP is around 100%, unemployment is high, war debt is still growing, and wages have been flat for over 30 years is also pretty short-sighted.
raising taxes and revenue has to be a part of the equation. cutting and austerity alone won’t get us out of debt.
February 6, 2013 at 3:06 pm #780520
JoBParticipanti was listening to Tom Hartman yesterday
and was reminded of Ike
the debt to GDP ratio was worse than it is now and Ike turned it around by building roads… which by the way created nearly 4 generations of economic benefit.
I like Ike
February 6, 2013 at 5:50 pm #780521
WorldCitizenParticipantCount me in for spending on infrastructure repair/upgrades at a time where money will never be cheaper.
Also I’m for cutting defense by a significant percentage (beyond the savings we reap for bringing the troops home).
Also, for streamlining medicare/medicaid in sensible ways, without cutting into benefits.
Also for increasing tax rates for EVERYONE to at least Clinton-era amounts. (Really I think we should just flat tax everyone, but that ‘aint gonna happen any time soon.)
I’m sure there’s more, but for now that’s my two cents.
OH…and implementing a state income tax.
February 6, 2013 at 6:06 pm #780522
JoBParticipantwhat worldcitizen said
February 6, 2013 at 6:11 pm #780523
DBPMemberRaise taxes on the rich: YES
Invest in infrastructure: YES
Pretend like debt doesn’t matter: NO
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As far as the “money’s never been cheaper” argument, I’m leery of that. Heroin’s never been cheaper either. That doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to go out and get you some.
A lot of folks got took on that “money’s never been cheaper” game a few years back. You might have heard about that. They called it “the housing bubble.”
February 6, 2013 at 6:12 pm #780524
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