Atitudes on Bikes

[Anonymous]

I have no problem with cyclists driving down the middle of the lane. In fact I prefer it. I can see you both in front and in my rear view. What I disagree with, is the respect you speak of. When I am the front car holding up a line of traffic, out of respect, I pull over and let them pass. In fact it used to be a law, that you couldn’t hold up more than 5 cars. Don’t know if it still is.

And I’m not talking about 5 miles per hour slower, or when you’re trying to get up a hill, or navigate a treacherous roadway, etc, etc, etc. I don’t attempt to pass those people and I give them a wide berth.

You are correct in that I don’t know what it’s like to ride a bike in traffic. I have rode a tiny little scooter for a few years as my only mode of transportation, however. I spent a fair amount of time enjoying the various ditches in the suburbs. People really like to turn right in front of you and cut you off.

I didn’t spend my time concentrating on why do cars hate scooters so much. I worked at making myself more visible and learned to imagine every car is going to hit me. What is my game plan for survival. It would have been nice to just enjoy my ride, but as you point out, I was the little guy choosing to put myself in between 2 ton vehicles.

As for the cat calls, insults, yelling and so on. Well thats just terrible and I’m sorry you endure it. My point was it has nothing (IMO) to do with the bike. It has more to do with some people are major a$$holes to anyone they deem a target. It’s not right, it’s not fair, it’s certainly not pleasant, but it happens just walking down the street too. You seem to have put specific value on they’re doing this JUST because I’m a woman on a bike. My thought is, they’re doing it because they can and that’s the type of person they are. To take it personally seems to border on I am victim thinking.

Lastly, somewhere it was decided that car drivers constantly pick on bike riders on this blog. “Why doesn’t anyone complain about the drivers on 35th?” If you’ve been here for any amount of time, you would know that is simply not true. 35TH has been complained about so many times, it’s nick name is I-35. The speeding, the horrible accidents, the tragic deaths. If you’re bored sometime, peruse the column to your right titled transportation. 604 articles and climbing. A good portion of them discussing bad behavior and scary conditions (read the comments).

There may be an added sensitivity for cyclist complaints because you feel personally singled out. It isn’t you. The discussion is bad behavior, and sometimes some cyclists display that and it gets talked about.

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[Cait]

For any bicyclists who haven’t experienced following a bike along Beach Drive at about 5 miles an hour – it’s infuriating! Not because I’m impatient but because I’m riding my breaks, using up the gas that I work hard to preserve and holding up the road. I am willing to be patient, but it tends to get a bit asinine after a full mile. I suppose that’s all I’m asking – that everyone be courteous and attentive – bikes and cars alike. Following behind bicycles in places where there is no where to pass them encourages dangerous passing so let’s all try to keep that in mind when doing the “safe thing”. I appreciate that I can see you when you’re in the middle of the lane, but I think it’s about time that we learn to see cars as well.

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[TrukMama]

Great comments Cait! I believe, earlier I had mentioned cyclists going out in traffic, and it ended up that it was legal for them to go down the center lane. I really had no intention of challenging the legality of where cyclists ride on the rode, it was a comment on moving through traffic and not giving signals or being seen. Everyone has “blind spots”, vehicles, cyclists, skate boarders, pedestrians….all of us. It is an issue, in my opinion, of being aware of all people around “your” space, and being respectful all the way around. It is not an issue of who is bigger or “holier than thou”, but being watchful of one another. After all, the point is, for no one to be hurt or injured and for all of us o make it!:)

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[TrukMama]

Sorry for the misspelling of rode. That was meant to be road.

I do have another comment. I have driven in downtown Seattle and have seen cyclists go around corners, down the hills, at a good speed, and almost wipe out. They come close to taking out pedestrians, and if they go down, can cause more traffic issues. Again, this is a few, but as with all drivers and riders, it happens. This is a Rant/Rave section. So I believe, everyone is voicing their opinions and not trying to make it personal. Said my two cents, for whatever it is worth!:)

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[AkliRust]

I agree with TrukMama…

I can also see the point that SeattleTech is making as well. True Story: Lived in West Seattle all my life, I drive “normal” – not a speed freak and am courteous to everyone. I was going to the grocery store, stopped at a red light… Out of nowhere this guy on a bicycle comes up to me and calls me a “a**hole car driver” an literally pounds hi arm down on my side mirror and broke if off! Then he takes off through the red light, almost getting hit by 2 cars. I still don’t know what he was mad about… and it cost me $250 to get my mirror fixed. If that’s what bicyclist are all about…I don’t “wannabe” one. I could write a very long entry on what I have seen, just in West Seattle alone, but I won’t bore you all. I just want to say I agree with SeattleTech. Thanks

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[vincent]

I think we should ban people walking or biking from roads, because they don’t obey ever law I made up at all times. Slow people, should be banned as well. School buses because they stop, and gas should be free.

Or you could build a bridge and get over it. Bikes are here to stay, try to be considerate to your neighbors and realize what its like to go out on a road where the vast majority of people can kill you with the slightest inclination. Some people on bikes ride defensively to avoid confrontation, some ride aggressively to assert their rights, and sometimes break laws that create dangerous situations.

People speed in cars, and drive drunk and answer cell phones, and those are just the deliberate illegal things. Somehow thats always overlooked because someone saw a guy on a bike roll a stop sign.

We all live in West Seattle, if you pay attention more than getting your panties in a bunch you would recognize that bike or car guy at the thrift way or the junction and you could talk about it like a human being. Ranting on the internet is way better though, its cathartic and it’s easier to dehumanize people who are just trying to get around like you.

ps: ask someone who drives professionally like a truck driver ( semi ) who is worse, bicycles or cars, I bet you 20$ cars win every time.

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[meg]

Yay Vincent!!!!

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[Anonymous]

Vincent…where have you been. Do you know of a system or place where combining bikes and cars works? Or what would be your ideal situation so everyone was safe? I see images of countries where there are zillions of bikes in traffic but it always looks like everyone is only going about 5-10 miles an hour together.

I totally get how dangerous it is out there. A cyclist was killed a few blocks from my house last year and I think of her every day. I hate that that happened. But what exactly is the answer? There will always be reckless car drivers and they will always cause serious damage in a match up.

Should there be completely separate lanes for bikes? Designated streets for bikes only? It just seems you can educate up the ying yang about the rights of cyclists and it won’t make a damn bit of difference for those cars that want to speed, drive drunk, etc. I genuinely don’t want to see anyone get hurt, but it seems the odds are stacked.

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[datamuse]

JT: Amsterdam is usually cited as the model bike-friendly city, and most people I know who’ve been there have agreed with that assessment. However, all I’ve ever seen of it is the airport, so I really can’t judge.

I saw a LOT more bicycles the last time I went to Vancouver than I ever see down here in Seattle. The only problem was that my Prius is so quiet, they didn’t always know I was behind them…but it wasn’t like I was in a hurry, so no big.

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[vincent]

Jt: Tons of it has to do with the mentality of Americans in general, people here tend to have a very strong sense of entitlement and they apply it to their belief systems, and anything they my falsely interpret as a “right.” The majority of car altercations I have seen or been the target of, seem to stem from the fact that people in cars are infuriated that a bicycle is slowing them down, or impeding their right to drive to a destination without interruption.

No one in a car stops to realize that if I am on my bike, I am not in my car. I think in other countries people are more accepting of bicycles and mass transit as a way of people using resources in better more efficient ways. I don’t need a cupcake for riding my bike, but I think some basic understanding of it might help everyone get along better.

As for what we could do today to make it better? I think we need real enforcement in this city when people decide to, or in negligence use there cars as deadly weapons. Pedestrian and bicycle fatalities in this city are currently largely ignored, and I am sure people notice and have no interest in cycling or watching for cyclist or pedestrians because of it.

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[rs261]

A different way to think about this, instead of car vs bike (like this thread) why dont we go back and read the bike vs walking thread. How is it that bikes are always in the right? If I’m walking, impeding a bikes progress, should the person walking be afforded the same rights/courtousy as the bike impeding a cars progress? I’m really not trying to stir up trouble though, Im just wondering what vincent/others think ( I havent gone back to the bike/pedestrian thread though to see what/if vincent replied on there). Thanks in advance.

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[Anonymous]

rs261 – I really like the question you have presented.

That is an interesting way of looking at this situation. Bikes can slow down a cars progress, just as a walker can slow a bikers progress, yet, the main theme in these threads is that the bikers have all the rights, regardless of the situation.

I, too, am interested in a response to this question.

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[Cait]

That’s funny, I was just talking about this last night. If I can get a ticket in my car for going under the speed limit and impeding traffic, what is to be said for a bike? They are more vulnerable, they go a lot slower, and have less room to travel. What I would really like to see is substantial room for cars, bikes and walkers to travel on any given road. You’d think Seattle, being so green, would have thought of a way to do this by now. Quit worrying about taxing my #$@*## plastic bags, and look out for these poor bikers that are forced out into traffic with us where no one is happy with each other!!! Seriously.

As an answer to your EXCELLENT question rs261 – I think we have far more walkers/drivers than bikers. And though you can argue with whether or not that’s a good thing, I think we need to first of all look out for the majority. It may seem unfair, but short of forcing more people onto bikes and into traffic before it gets better, we may just have to live with the cars/bikes/pedestrians hierarchy. Choose your place, learn to get along as best you can, but I think that we all need to fight for bikers to have a better place to ride since I think we’re at a stalemate as far as car/biker etiquette goes on the road. Everyone is pointing the finger but no one is dealing with the real problem of bikes (and sometimes speeding cars) as road hazards.

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[rs261]

On a side note, I used to bike to work in chicago, but have not done so here (the hills scare me) In chicago, other then the busses and some cars being too close for my comfort, I didnt really have any bad experiences…but I also tried to choose my path to avoid most traffic, even if it wasnt the quickest/shortest/most bike friendly route. Which brings up another question…for bikers here, have you biked in other cities? which one was better/worse and why?

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[keleeso]

Very interesting… I have been sitting here examining my own behavior from pedestrian to biker to motorcyle rider to automobile operator:

1. As a pedestrian I rarely break the law- I almost never jaywalk and because I get so annoyed as a biker when people get in my way, I am pretty danged good at staying to the right.

2. As a biker, I get annoyed when pedestrians (on bike paths) are in my path because they are slow and seem out of touch with what is going on around them and wander all over the place.

3. As a motorcyclist I am hyper aware of what is going on around me and I hardly ever speed or break rules of the road. I don’t worry about where bikers are because I have lane to spare, and pedestrians have not been an issue.

4. As an auto operator, I break the law way too often- probably every time I drive. I used to drive faster than the posted limit (even if it is only a couple mph over) and I find myself getting more impatient with bikers who are going slower than I am when I can’t pass them (UW arboretum!) and I slow instead of stop at stop signs, unless there are other cars around.

I agree with previous posters that drivers should try riding bikes so they can experience all that is scary: road debris, parked cars with doors opening, people turning in front of you, pulling into the lane from driveways/parking lots, etc

I think bikers should stop at stop signs and keep as far to the right as safely possible.

And finally, it is my hope that we all slow down, look around and see not the cars, not the bikes, but the human beings who’s paths cross (or slow) ours.

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[scooby-snax]

i think bike riders are crazy. why would anyone want to be like lance? he only has ONE NUT!lol

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[changingtimes]

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/reader_feedback/public/display.php?id=750

this was an intreasting article with questions and answers about bikes and the rules of the road :)

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[wundrgrrrl]

Lately I’ve noticed a ton of bikes out on the streets after dark with no lights or even reflectors. As a fellow bike rider, it’s a “what are you thinking” moment! Cars vs. bikes… cars always win

Riders – Be safe!

Drivers – Be alert!

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[roundthesound]

I just wanted to say I agree with cookie monster 100% and I’m stealing your phrase ‘testosterone poisoning’, just great!

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