Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Anti-bag fee people in front of safeway..trying to get our signatures!!
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August 17, 2008 at 6:13 am #587792
sewjoeyMemberWho are these anti-GREEN, anti progress people hired by?? Yuck. I cant understand why people think that having to use your own bags is a bad thing?? Are they just so misinformed or worse?
just read: http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2007/08/10/plastic_bags/
these articles will enlighten even the biggest bag scrooge!
August 17, 2008 at 6:49 am #634337
WSBKeymasterHi, we have reported on this extensively on the home page in the past week. They are working for the American Chemical Council and the Washington Food Industry. Meantime, within the next hour or so I will be posting another update, including plans by CoolMom.org to demonstrate in support of the bag fee at Seattle stores including West Seattle Thriftway on Monday afternoon — so if you want to show support, that’s one opportunity —
thanks,
TR
August 17, 2008 at 7:33 am #634338
GenHillOneParticipantPerhaps this should be a new thread, but TR, I think you mentioned that you were in CA when they banned plastic bags… I think what bugs me about this measure(?) is that I feel like I’m being punished when I am pretty careful about reusing and recycling shopping bags. Maybe I would be less resentful if they were just banned across the board. How did it work in CA? Were they just gone? Could customers buy paper/reusable bags? I thought KING5 said that we were the first in the country to charge like this, so I’m curious.
August 17, 2008 at 8:00 am #634339
DianeParticipantGenHillOne, I agree; I’m the queen of recycling and majorly resent a punitive tax; if any plastic bag law has to be passed, I’d much prefer an outright ban
there’s excellent resource info re plastic bags bans in California, New York, Portland, and other countries on http://www.seattlebagtax.org/
August 17, 2008 at 6:30 pm #634340
charlabobParticipantHow are the people who claim to use recycleble bags being punished? The “tax” is on people who don’t. Who benefits from our continued use of plastic bags? Hmmmm…the chemical industry? Who’s paying the signature gathers? Hmmmmm. Falling for it again, aren’t we?
August 17, 2008 at 6:41 pm #634341
datamuseParticipantCharlabob, I think the issue is that you CAN reuse the plastic bags–either to carry groceries, or for trash can liners, etc. Plus, the plastic bags themselves can be recycled.
When I was growing up in Maryland, there was this one sort of budget supermarket where you got charged a fee if you used the store’s bags instead of bringing your own. I think it was a cost-cutting measure, not for environmental reasons. About every month my mom would buy the bags (they were all paper then, of course) and then reuse them until they fell apart.
August 17, 2008 at 6:46 pm #634342
WSBKeymasterIt wasn’t a plastic-bag ban in California when we were there – but environmental concern really started to accelerate in the late ’80s, and that’s always been one of my personal signature issues, so we bought cloth shopping bags – almost every chain offered them (I think from the same provider; the ones I had from Lucky and Safeway were very similar, unbleached cotton canvas with the logo inscribed in red). Also cloth produce bags from a now-defunct mail-order (remember, this was before The Interwebs went big) company called Earth Care Paper, which also offered AWESOME post-consumer (almost 100 percent!) legal pads that we also bought from them in bulk. Somebody took over Earth Care in the early ’90s and more or less shut them down … sad.
San Diego had no curbside recycling then and here’s one instance of something we did that probably was counterproductive: The tap water was HORRIBLE, Brita-type filters didn’t exist, so all our drinking water came from the 1-gallon plastic jugs. The closest recycling place for those was a dropoff … 15 miles north. So we saved them in a closet in our apartment till it couldn’t hold any more, then threw them in the car and drove to the dropoff spot. We’ve always had smallish cars but I still wonder if the gas-burning drive negated the recycling benefit :) – TR
August 17, 2008 at 6:50 pm #634343
sewjoeyMemberWell as usual I am a day late on the news-I was just so appalled by that petition person I had to come home and write and ask!! I knew that I would get the info here..I just so rarely have time to sit and read the blog.. I have just joined coolmoms and will be at the thrift way tomorrow!
yay for cool moms!
August 17, 2008 at 7:39 pm #634344
JanSParticipantIn a perfect world (yeah, right), we’d all be bundling up our plastic bags in one big bag and recycling them. But, honestly, how many of us can say we do hat 100% of the time? How many of those plastic bags get tossed in our trash because, this one time (!) it’s just easier, etc. etc. So, yes, they’re recyclable, but obviously, that ain’t working for us.
I have no problem taking my own bag. I’ll miss the paper bags tat I use for my recycling stuff in my kitchen..I’ll have to deal with that (stock up?lol).
The big thing I have to work on is my memory – lol. Have to remember to take my reusable bags each and every time I walk to the grocery store :)
Dos anyone remember Prairie Market..no bags, no bagging, there were cardboard boxes, and you loaded them yourself? Those were the days…
August 17, 2008 at 8:13 pm #634345
TheVelvetBulldogMemberJanS: Prairie Market remains one of my strongest childhood memories. We had one just down the street from our place in Holly Park (back before HP was “the hood.”) The “shopping carts” were the big flatbed carts so I could just hop on for a ride while my mum pushed it around the store. Plus, you wrote the prices on the items yourself with the grease pencils. I think as I got older, my mum let me do that too. :-)
August 17, 2008 at 10:17 pm #634346
RainyDay1235MemberPerhaps people who are against it should just realize that you simply don’t get anything for “free” anymore. Sure, it’s better for the environment (and I am all for it), but are people really surprised to pay 5-10 cents for the bag(s) now? It probably would have happened eventually anyway – green initiative or no.
And I am guessing the people who are SO against it might not have been the best ‘recyclers’ in the first place – or else they would see what pointless fight this is.
August 17, 2008 at 11:29 pm #634347
RobindianneParticipantMmmm. Now I consider myself open minded, so I can see both sides. I’m not SO against the bag fee, but, on the one hand, I don’t really want to pay 20cents for each plastic dog poop baggie (my sole use for them after I have them), and I certainly do put every single paper bag in my recycle bin.
On the other hand, I certainly cringe at the thought of the plastic never breaking down, ending up killing turtles in the seat (when they try to eat it), and just the harm to the environment in the production of plastics. I don’t know what the answer is.
Do any of you know where that 20 cents goes? Perhaps that would help push me off the fence. Also, I’m not sure that plastic milk containers are less harmful (although I do certainly recycle each and every one of these too but I’m guessing not everyone does).
Can you tell I’m a gemini? Equally strong opposing views held simultaneously is my specialty. :)
edited to add: btw my family also shopped at Prairie Market in Portland. I’d completely forgotten that. Didn’t we have to use black oil/wax markers and copy the price from the shelf tag onto the items? They had a little twisty knob on top to extend the wax stuff? Wow. Long time ago.
August 18, 2008 at 4:08 am #634348
JoBParticipantThe one problem i may have with the bag “tax” is that according to the signature gatherers, we are hiring two full time city employees.. whom i am told we will be giving cars.. to administer the program.
ok.. maybe that bugs me a bit.. but not enough to want to kill the program.
If the stores really hadn’t wanted to have a program foisted on them, all they had to do was create their own.
We already pay for bags at trader joes..
and there is a very popular chain in the midwest called Aldos that charges for bags and makes you pay a deposit (a quarter) to get your shopping cart (you get it back when you bring the cart back).
Those policies didn’t cost them any business.
Sometimes it takes law for societies to create new habits.
Curbside recycling programs aren’t nearly as effective where they are discretionary.
August 18, 2008 at 2:41 pm #634349
beachdrivegirlParticipantJanSmy issue is exactly like. I would have no problem paying 20cents if I forgot a reusable bag to the grocery store but eth fact that it is going to the city and is just that a tax and that they arent using this tax money for maybe more programs on the environment really urks me.
August 18, 2008 at 4:51 pm #634350
RainyDay1235MemberAs I understand, it does….
The city will collect 15 cents from each plastic and paper bag sale to be used for waste prevention, recycling, city cleanup and environmental education programs. The remaining 5 cents goes to the store to help educate consumers and possibly offer bags to low income individuals.
August 18, 2008 at 5:04 pm #634351
JoBParticipantI wasn’t here when mandatory recycling rolled in.
Where the arguments used to try to defeat that the same basic arguments that are raised against this now?
And if so, how do you feel about mandatory recycling now?
From an outside perspective on the recylcing program.. i can tell you that a year ago, Roseville, MN.. where i lived.. had an award winning recycling program.. and an award winning yard waste collection program.. all voluntary… and garbage containers twice the size of those we use here… that were seldom left unfilled.
it looks to me like something is working.
August 18, 2008 at 5:05 pm #634352
JenVMemberI think a good solution to get people on board with the program is for all the stores, starting immediately, knock $.20 off your grocery tab if you bring in a reusable bag. That would be an incentive for a lot of people. Then, when the bag “tax” kicks in, you get charged the $.20 if you don’t bring in your reusable bags.
I was debating with one of the signature gatherers on Saturday at Safeway. He did not have well thought out answers to any of my questions. It seems like these people are just hired guns, doing it for the $$.
I personally feel for the dog owners on this one. Every dog owner I know re-uses the plastic bags for poopie-pickup. When the plastic bags from the store are gone, people will have to buy plastic poopie-bags. Just what the plastics council wants, I am sure.
August 18, 2008 at 5:35 pm #634353
flowerpetalMemberYou would have to have an absolutely huge dog to need a grocery bag to pick up the poop. I now have a small dog and a box of 300 sandwich bags lasts a long time for this purpose. My previous dogs were greyhounds and of course they left larger poops. Even then, there was no need for something as large as a grocery bag.
August 18, 2008 at 5:46 pm #634354
RainyDay1235MemberBiodegradable dog scoop bags are very common and not that expensive. You can buy in bulk online and the rolls fit very nicely into leash-attachable holders. Again, one little change makes a big difference…
August 18, 2008 at 7:10 pm #634355
ErikParticipantI use the biodegradable doggie bags. Easier, stronger, and hide the prize a bit better. Just bought another 120 count at the local pet store on Alki for $10.99 + tax = ~10 cents/bag.
August 18, 2008 at 7:25 pm #634356
JenVMemberI have known people with all sizes of dogs who use the grocery bags for poop pickup simply because A) they wanted to reuse them and B) didn’t want to pay for something that will end up all poopy (I can’t believe how many times in this thread I have said poopy, by the way)…I used to bring a bag of bags into work and put them in the common area and people would snatch them up for just that purpose. It sounds like the biodegradable bags are pretty cheap, though, and work better.
This is going to sound like a dumb question, and I admittedly haven’t done my own research, but does this bag tax also apply to paper bags?
August 18, 2008 at 7:32 pm #634357
JoBParticipantJenV.. that’s a great question.
paper bags aren’t as much of a disposal problem as plastic since they are biodegradable, but they use resources and fossil fuels in both their creation and transportation…
biodegradable is good.. even if they take a huge amount of time to biodegrade … as the biodegradable lawn refuse bags and doggie poo bags do…
i hadn’t thought of the sandwich bags.. and for that i bet waxed paper bags would work every bit as well.. though would be hard to tie shut.. ooh.. just thinking about it makes me pucker.
obviously.. just when i thought i had it all figured out… this requires more though:(
August 18, 2008 at 7:32 pm #634358
beachdrivegirlParticipantJenV, yes the tax does include paper bags. I hadnt realized that until a friend pointed it out to me when I said that I will use paper bags instead. I also didnt realize that the fees collected will go to help educate recyling programs…i need to do more reading on it. I for one just think the idea of the tax is a silly concept. but then again that is just my opinion.
August 18, 2008 at 8:47 pm #634359
flowerpetalMemberI did a little trolling around this afternoon to answer a few of my own questions. Some I still haven’t been able to answer, so please chime in!
It’s true that fifteen cents of every twenty cent “green fee” goes back to the City for purposes listed above; and also to help offset the increased costs to managing the City’s waste. Also, the fifteen cent fee will be used to make reusable bags available to citizens who have limited incomes. No where could I find that the five cents staying with the grocer, convenience,drug and grocery stores goes to their own consumer education programs. Everything I read says that the five cents stays with the merchant for administrative costs.
I also learned that small businesses who gross less than one million dollars annually will keep the whole twenty cent fee.
And finally it looks like this movement was put forward by Council President Conlin, not the Mayor. So shake your finger at your council members if you must. It never would have passed without their votes.
My final unanswered question is about that vote. I’m seeming to remember that one council member did oppose the measure and I’m not seeing who that is. Does anyone remember, or can find it?
August 18, 2008 at 9:09 pm #634360
DianeParticipantyes, I watched it live on Seattle Channel; it was Jan Drago with a lengthy statement for her no vote
she will for sure get my vote in next election
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