Home › Forums › Open Discussion › Anti-bag fee people in front of safeway..trying to get our signatures!!
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August 18, 2008 at 9:11 pm #634361
beachdrivegirlParticipantDiane wuold you mind sharing with me with she voted no if you remmeber?
August 18, 2008 at 9:29 pm #634362
flowerpetalMemberYes, it would be helpful to know what her thoughts are. Her webpage at the City has many chunks which have not been updated for 5-6 months.
Jan Drago is up for re-election next year so you will have your opportunity Diane!
August 18, 2008 at 9:45 pm #634363
DianeParticipantthe PI article covers some of her statements
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/372566_bags29.html
another fact that is rarely mentioned re this topic, it will cost the city at least half a million just to run this program
August 18, 2008 at 9:57 pm #634364
JenVMember*shock*
August 18, 2008 at 10:03 pm #634365
CMParticipantAnother point often overlooked is that although the program is expected to bring in $3.5M per year, out of which the $.5M to run it is taken.
However, as it catches on, that $3.5M will eventually go to 0 or closer as people stop using bags altogether.
The administrative costs of the program stay the same, so where will the $.5M come from?
August 18, 2008 at 10:07 pm #634366
flowerpetalMemberI know that 500,000 sounds like a lot of money; and to us as individuals… it is! This amount accounts for only 14% of the expected total revenue from the green fee. In government work, 14% is a conservative administrative fee.
August 18, 2008 at 10:11 pm #634367
flowerpetalMemberCM, I think are brains are on the same wavelength. I understand that the administrative fee will wither too. However, I’m doubtful that the 3.5 million will ever get to zero dollars collected. Perhaps someone might suggest to Ms Drago legislation to have the administration fee linked proportionately to the amount taken in.
August 18, 2008 at 10:13 pm #634368
DianeParticipantI just emailed Jan’s office to request a transcript of her statement on day of the vote
they don’t seem to have the text version; seems to me it should be available somewhere for public to access
but she did provide link to video
“If you’d like to review the Full Council vote that took place and listen to Jan again, please visit”
http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/watchVideos.asp?program=fullCouncil and watch the video from 7/28/08
August 18, 2008 at 10:24 pm #634369
DianeParticipantanother response from Jan’s office
I’m surprised to learn
“The Clerk’s Office does not do minutes of Council meetings”
perhaps the city could spend some of the bag tax/fee to hire a secretary to transcribe council meetings for the public
anyone out there feel motivated enough to watch that video and transcribe?
August 19, 2008 at 6:25 am #634370
hellothereMemberWhy do you assume they are anti-Green? I had heard about a study done over in Ireland That there plastic garbage/trash bag sales skyrocketed because instead of paying a tax. They would rather by an entire box/case of plastic bags. Now some how I think that is counter productive. Some of these people who are anti bag tax asked the City Counsel to spend time and money to educate those who may not be aware of the great consequence caused by disposable bags. They said no lets TAX.
Again we’re quick to judge and quick to band-aid a situation for some self-satisfaction.
Why do we think taxing the folks who aren’t aware of the dangers to begin with will solve the problem? They will continue to use the plastic bag throw them into their plastic garbage bag and go back to the store and do it all over again. Meanwhile they will be pissed off and think of us Green Folks as the bad guy for adding an additional $300.00 to their annual food cost. And when you’re grossing 12,000 to15, 000 a year that’s a lot of money. I would rather they spend that $300.00 and be able to choose healthier foods. Oh that would require some education too.
August 19, 2008 at 6:27 am #634371
hellothereMemberWhy do you assume they are anti-Green? I had heard about a study done over in Ireland That there plastic garbage/trash bag sales skyrocketed because instead of paying a tax. They would rather by an entire box/case of plastic bags. Now some how I think that is counter productive. Some of these people who are anti bag tax asked the City Counsel to spend time and money to educate those who may not be aware of the great consequence caused by disposable bags. They said no lets TAX.
Again we’re quick to judge and quick to band-aid a situation for some self-satisfaction.
Why do we think taxing the folks who aren’t aware of the dangers to begin with will solve the problem? They will continue to use the plastic bag throw them into their plastic garbage bag and go back to the store and do it all over again. Meanwhile they will be pissed off and think of us Green Folks as the bad guy for adding an additional $300.00 to their annual food cost. And when you’re grossing 12,000 to15, 000 a year that’s a lot of money. I would rather they spend that $300.00 and be able to choose healthier foods. Oh that would require some education too.
August 19, 2008 at 6:56 am #634372
elgregoMemberI signed the petition. I consider myself an environmentalist, but I don’t like the idea of being taxed willy-nilly. I’d rather have a referendum on the issue instead of a council decree. Outside of my monthly rent, groceries are my biggest expenditure… I really don’t need to be paying more, nor do I feel like paying $10-$20 each for a bunch of cloth bags I could reuse.
I have to ask… is the tax intended to curb bag useage or to bring money into the city?
August 19, 2008 at 7:31 am #634373
JanSParticipantelgrego, I don’t know where you’ve been looking for bags but I pay a buck for my reuseable ones…except for one that I splurged on…and that was 5 bucks. You consider yourself an environmentalist…so, what would be a better idea to curb the usage of plastic bags that don’t break down ? I don’t mind you objecting to what everyone is calling a “tax”.That’s your right. I won’t be taxed since I will use reusable bags. I just wish someone would present an alternative plan instead of just complaining.
August 19, 2008 at 7:37 am #634374
JanSParticipantand hello there? those people who aren’t aware of the dangers of non-biodegradable bags will soon be educated, won’t they? That’s part of this…educating people. And while we’re talking about assuming things…don’t assume that just the poor “uneducated” people (whoever you think they maybe…poor doesn’t necessarily mean stupid, IMO) don’t know about the impact of non-biodegradable bags on the environment.
August 19, 2008 at 2:16 pm #634375
JenVMemberthey shouldn’t be taxing the paper bags, then. That is what cheeses me off about this whole thing. Plastic bags are bad for the environment- BAN THEM. Paper bags will break down into nothing even if you left them out in the yard. Plus, paper bags fit more groceries than their plastic counterparts. One of the lame arguments posed by the signature gatherers on Saturday was that “a family of five will have 20 plastic bags for a week of groceries!” and my response was: nope, that would be 5 BIODEGRADABLE paper bags at most. The city is going about this all wrong- it’s the same mindset as Mayor Nickel-n-dime closing Alki for the day. We appear green, and we can all pat each other on the back for being good little environmentalists….I am neither for nor against this “tax” – I can avoid it….I just wish the city council would have thought it through before pulling this knee-jerk reaction by banning all bags across the board.
August 19, 2008 at 2:32 pm #634376
beachdrivegirlParticipantI read one article that stated that Seattles program is a “feel good” program it makes people “feel” like we are going green whne in fact we are not. There are many other ways they could have educated consumers about being green without a $0.20 tax including using the paper bags… it will be interesting to see how many people will just avoid shopping in Seattle grocery stores all together to avoid the bag tax but they will be producing polution to get to the store they are going to.
August 19, 2008 at 2:37 pm #634377
JenVMemberperfect time to try AmazonFresh! Just got my grocery shopping delivered to me this morning, pre-dawn…in reusable bins with biodegradable paper bags inside.
August 19, 2008 at 5:02 pm #634378
elgregoMemberIs the Amazon Fresh thing more expensive than bopping down to the QFC/Safeway/Thriftway?
August 19, 2008 at 5:13 pm #634379
JenVMemberNO! Most items are a lot less expensive than going to QFC or T-Way – and I try to avoid Safeway like the plague. I also dislike people, so shopping from home is nice. There is a much larger selection of items to choose from, and you can narrow your choices down while shopping – for instance, if you have a dietary need- you can arrange it to show only gluten free items, fat free, Kosher, vegetarian, etc. It seems like a logical choice for people who are opposed to the bag tax…
August 19, 2008 at 7:40 pm #634380
condodwellerMemberI am against the 20 cent fee for the following reasons:
1) garbage is wet, hence some form of plastic is required for disposal. I cannot compost due to being in a condo, so that is not a solution.
2) I reuse the grocery bags to dispose of garbage. If I did not get them at the grocery store, I would have to buy new, 1 use, less biodegradable plastic bags.
3) The store has to purchase the bags, track their sales and usage and give over most of the revenue to the city. This puts an unfair burden on private business.
4) It is a simple matter to go over the city line and avoid the bag tax; which puts the local stores at a disadvantage and could hurt their sales.
5) I am tired of being punished for living in Seattle by special taxes only we seem to need to bear. Monorail taxes, and years ago forced bussing, etc.
6) It is insulting that our Mayor and City Council do not let the residents of our city determine how responsible we can be and imply that we will not comply or care without monetary pain.
7) I recycle all bags that are not used for garbage or use them for storing things.
August 19, 2008 at 7:56 pm #634381
mellaw6565MemberBut condodweller – even though you reuse your bags – eventually they end up in the landfill, which is the problem!!! And why can’t you compost? There are plastic biodegradable bags for composting that don’t leak!
In most other countries I have lived in or visited, everyone uses their own bags or you have to pay a tax for the plastic bags. I don’t have a problem with the change in our system if it keeps bags out of the landfills.
Interesting – in Korea you don’t pay for garbage/recycling service. You have to buy the specially marked bags and can only discard your trash in those bags. They are available at local convenience stores and are in different colors depending on whether it is trash, compost or recycling. Also, condo & apt. dwellers are forced to comply as well. It’s a much easier system than our individual accounts here with the garbage folks. And they will fine the hell out of you if you or your apt/condo building is caught out of compliance.
August 19, 2008 at 9:03 pm #634382
RainyDay1235MemberIt’s a canvas bag – I really don’t see the big deal. If EVERYONE recycled their bags – this wouldn’t be necessary – but clearly “we” do not. We’re clogging landfills and crowding the earth with too many people and raping finite resources. This is the LEAST we can do.
August 19, 2008 at 10:08 pm #634383
condodwellerMemberI cannot compost because I do live in a condo – third floor to be exact. There is no place to put the compost and I have no garden to use it in.
Yes the garbage bags do end up in the landfill, but the grocery bags are much more biodegradable than the new ones purchased from the shelves and are used more than once.
Perhaps I am missing something, is everyone else putting their wet garbage in something other than plastic?
As to what other countries do? I just spent 3 weeks in the Baltic states and the UK and purchased not one bag issued to me. Besides, this is not nationwide or even county wide, it is strictly for us, the unlucky, idoitic people who dwell in Seattle who seemingly are not fit to make informed decisions for ourselves.
August 19, 2008 at 10:16 pm #634384
JoBParticipantGet a grip folks…
whether the bag tax ends up being voted on or not, get yourself some reusable bags and keep the plastic bags out of the landfills…
biodegradable bags are available for dog poo, garbage, lawn refuse, etc… They are as easy (if not easier in the case of dog poo) to use and a whole lot easier to ultimately get rid of.
since recycling doesn’t even have to be sorted much here.. you can use a plastic dishpan on a shelf to collect recycling.. walk it to the big containers and dump it in… that eliminates the need for bags at all.
all of the rationalizations for why we need plastic bags.. or paper ones for that matter.. just prove how necessary a law or tax is to solve what is currently a major disposal issue.
just like it took water at a dollar a bottle to convince me that if it isn’t an emergency… i don’t need to buy it…
good for my pocketbook and better for the environment.
Hey.. if you stop buying bottled water and soft drinks in plastic containers, you can easily save enough to buy biodegradable disposal bags and reusable shopping bags.
I did.
August 19, 2008 at 10:24 pm #634385
JenVMemberBut JoB- if we don’t buy and subsequently recycle plastic bottles- where will REI get the materials to make fleece??? Seattle without REI fleece? Say it ain’t so! ;)
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