Home › Forums › Open Discussion › another try at banning plastic bags coming
- This topic is empty.
-
AuthorPosts
-
October 7, 2011 at 3:18 pm #734274
JoBParticipantsinglularname…
more thanks for the link after visiting it…
and for this quote which was featured there.. :)
“My definition of a free society is a society
where it is safe to be unpopular.”
Adlai E. Stevenson Jr.
November 18, 2011 at 1:38 am #734275
DianeParticipantit’s here
December 13, 2011 at 7:05 pm #734276
kootchmanMemberThey are at it again. Never let voter sentiment and majority rule when city council thinks they are right. Screw the voters. Oh yea..and magically they ARE going to charge for paper bags… it was a city ploy to raise revenue the entire time.
Even though LA paid for a study that said plastic was more eco-friendly, like cash strapped Seattle… the want revenue. you guessed it.. they want 5 cents per bag for paper too. Eco my foot…
“”Paper bags are easier to recycle, but they weigh 10 times as much,” says Robert Bateman of Roplast Industries, a bag manufacturer. “They use more energy and cause more waste in the process of manufacturing.”
A paper bag eats up almost three times as much energy in the manufacturing process, says Bateman, who’s also a past president of the Plastic Bag Association.
That’s not something usually emphasized by environmentalists trying to reduce plastic use.”
A new business opportunity… selling plastic bags outside grocery stores.. say … three for a nickel. Beats selling underground newspapers.
December 13, 2011 at 10:01 pm #734277
DianeParticipantcity council discussing plastic bag ban again today at 2pm; on seattlechannel
December 14, 2011 at 3:47 am #734278
JoBParticipantkootch..
they made a mistake going in for a soft landing and tagging a fee…
now they are going to do it right
because.. what people objected to was the fee
Whoopee !!!!
December 14, 2011 at 5:30 am #734279
DianeParticipantactually there are a lot of us who object not only to the fee, also to the ban; kootchman is not alone
December 14, 2011 at 10:56 am #734280
kootchmanMemberUh JoB thy ARE going for a fee….. a ban on plastic AND a paper bag fee. If people objected to the fee..why is it back? If it moves, breaths, organic, inorganic, flies, walks, crawls, and is in th line of sight of the City Council..they are going to try and tax it. So much for riding the bicycle to the store for groceries in Seattle.. paper bags in this weather? Way to think it through. BTY … funny how the department of health suggests PLASTIC to keep e-coli from cross contaminating foods, bagging meats in plastic…not paper. The eco friendly resueables…. when cultured, show all sorts of bugs … unless you wash them after every use.. in that good old hot water and detergent… a little phosphate bloom? Another eco dumbass decision. wait until the city gets sued for an e-coli cross contamination… whats a few million here and there.
December 14, 2011 at 3:54 pm #734281
JoBParticipantkootch…
little known fact…
they make washable grocery bags now that can be tucked into your back pocket..
(i carry a couple of them in my purse)
with handles strong enough to sling over the handlebars or to double as paniers on your bicycle..
the space between carrying your groceries home in your own bag and theirs is nothing more than habit..
as for washing them after every use…
if they become that contaminated
what does that say for the plastic and paper bags carefully stored in my laundry for re-use before re-cycling?
if you want to wash yours every time…
go for it.
mine get re-used a few times before I throw them in with the kitchen towels
December 14, 2011 at 4:12 pm #734282
kootchmanMemberYa get chicken, beef juices and blood mixed up and you cross contaminate your veggies, and other foods. Any irregular surface becomes a perfect breeding ground. Perfect…. the sick, the very young, and anyone with a diminished immune system are now at greater risk. And… there are lots of folks out there that don’t have washing machines to throw them in between each use..and that would be the only way to avoid cross contamination..wash between each use…. and as you like to point out.. the burden of a bag tax falls heaviest on who? But I am interested in your grocery bags that are less space consuming. The Ideal for that would be … plastic bag the meats, to put inside the washable. That is safer food handling.
December 14, 2011 at 10:03 pm #734283
DianeParticipantagree with kootchman; my greatest concern is safety/health and equity; I don’t even like my grocery purchases riding on the gross checker belts, slimy, filthy; the most dangerous contaminants to human health are not visible, leakage from meats/seafood; not to mention how many people with flu germs, unwashed hands from potty breaks, handling food items prior to check-stand; as it is, I wash all that is possible (milk cartons, produce) out of bag, before it goes in fridge/cupboards; at least I can put my food into clean paper/plastic to take home, and I reuse all the bags for garbage, recycling, poopy diapers, etc
~
I’ve worked in many homes of families with advantage of in-home washer/dryer; reusable bags rarely get washed, and are often stored in back of cars where dogs hang out, exposing bags to dog poop & hair; and when bags are not washed often, exposure to contaminates, bacteria that can make people very ill/die will grow in bag and contaminate packing area of check-stands, thus pass on to other people’s food and bags
~
on the equity part, thousands of people do not have washer/dryer, and it is burden on many to expect them to carry their own bags, especially without a car; there are also thousands who are still on very tight budget, where even a 5 cent per bag fee is a hardship
~
I was at the meeting months ago where all the advocates for the bag ban and fee announced their determination to bring the Bellingham ban to Seattle; it was incredibly ironic to hear the waste management guy tell us that paper is NOT recommended for dog waste, because paper can fall apart and expose garbage collectors to contaminants, so they suggested using plastic for dog poop; but it’s ok for the general public to be exposed to contaminants at the grocery store?
December 15, 2011 at 3:54 pm #734284
JoBParticipantkootch…
if the ubiquitous plastic grocery bag is banned, groceries will have to provide either provide a substitute for them or upgrade their packaging.
as i remember it.. good old fashioned butcher paper used to work just fine…
diane…
did you know that they make biodegradable poop bags now?
they aren’t biodegradable enough to compost
but then you wouldn’t want them to be.. would you?
they don’t stick around forever in the landfill like those plastic bags do…
go ahead.. invest a little in your planet
*********
The evidence is blowing in the wind folks
and floating in the sound
when citizens don’t choose responsibility
regulation is the only answer
December 15, 2011 at 7:43 pm #734285
DianeParticipantre “did you know that they make biodegradable poop bags now?
~
yep, and shockingly, the same folks who introduced the bag ban at the meeting months ago and are spearheading the bag ban and fee in Seattle, particularly the waste management dude, told us to NOT use the biodegradable bags, that the technology of being truly biodegradable was not quite there yet; many of us were also shocked to learn that most of the plastics that we the public so painstakingly separate into recycling, are not really recycled; it’s a nasty little secret; I asked the waste management dude if the public could go on tours of their facilities, like our local Nucor Steel plant offers weekly (I have toured Nucor, seen how they really do recycle); WM dude said no
~
there are mega tons of other plastics contained in the 7+ garbage islands in our oceans, which break down into tiny fragments that the fish eat because they can’t tell the difference, then humans eat the toxic fish; those hard plastics are much more damaging to fish, birds, humans, than the little ole plastic bag; I agree with kootchman, that the city looks for every way to get more money from the public, and even more, the council members think this will be a good thing on their resume; I wish they would put at least this much time/energy into helping people get living wage jobs, encouraging practices in Seattle to support businesses to create more jobs ; council members all make over $100,000, many were already rich; most are clearly so out of touch with half the population who are still struggling to survive; getting jobs is top priority for most in Seattle, not this stupid bag ban
December 15, 2011 at 10:02 pm #734286
kootchmanMemberGood old paraffin coated butcher paper? Not biodegradable …and higher on the fracture column of that good old petroleum distillation process. It’s oil based, and wastes volumes of trees. Plastics are far more eco friendly than paper. You don’t have to go to WM to see it…. you can watch the PET plastics sticking out of the crush bundles on the rail cars..on the way to the landfill… See.. this is Seattle… appearance over substance.
December 15, 2011 at 10:09 pm #734287
kootchmanMemberWanna be ab eco warrior? Ban birth control pills. The estrogen and synthetic hormones are creating havoc with the fish, causing sexual organ mutations, getting into the water supply, screwing up the entire endocrine system of humans because they are known as “persistants”. Stop selling lawn fertilizers, pesticides, fungicides, in Seattle. every major metro water system has traces of tranquilizers in them…but no city ever reports them..they are exempt from doing so. . plastic or paper is pure political posturing. Go out and ban the nursery and pet indsutry from selling invasives and non-natives… Himalyan blackberry bushes do more damage to the Seattle eco system. Ohhh, that would mean sales tax losses… and the city will never do that!
Here ya go JoB…
December 15, 2011 at 10:29 pm #734288
BostonmanMemberI was an accounting controller for a waste and recycling company in Washington. I ran a large portion of western washington. I can verify that a lot of the recycling when mixed with glass gets considered waste.
Whenever we rolled out mixed use recycling containers we would always try and get glass seperated from the rest because if the glass breaks its a lot more seperation on the mixed waste paper and cardboard and the loss component is much greater.
Even in seattle I try to throw my glass in the garbage rather than the recycling or else I take it to the dump so it can go in a seperate container.
This whole thing with banning plastic bags and taxing paper ones is a joke but not surprising in the lovely city of Seattle.
December 16, 2011 at 3:06 am #734289
DianeParticipantThanks for the insight as an insider Bostonman
~
what the WM dude told us, that most of the numbers in that little recycle triangle on plastics, are NOT really recyclable, and get tossed in the garbage at the WM plant; so we go through all the effort in our homes to separate waste, and put all our plastics with the recycle triangle in the recycle bin, and feel good about helping the planet; and then WM just dumps it in the garbage; tons and tons and tons
~
then they blame all the environmental chaos on the little ole plastic bag; it really is ridiculous; I’d much rather see a ban on plastic bottles and plastic packaging and/or a fee on bottles so that people can return for credit, like we all used to do with bottles for years
~
btw, the full city council will be voting on this Monday, so if you are opposed, email city council asap
January 28, 2012 at 6:53 pm #734290
JanSParticipantJanuary 28, 2012 at 11:26 pm #734291
DianeParticipant24.6% is from cigarettes and cigarette filters
January 29, 2012 at 2:51 am #734292
metrognomeParticipantDiane — so we should do *nothing* until we can solve all the problems at once? Seems an unusual way to eat an elephant.
kman — with your well-deserved international reputation as an eco-freak warrior, I am sure you have critically applied the same high-powered microscope to your lifestyle that you do to everyone else and determined that nothing you do has a major ecological impact on your neighbors, the community you exist in or the planet in general … wait, what about that Dodge tank you claim to drive?? I know, right wing scientists funded by the petroleum conglomerate have determined after extensive study at a fully paid for luxury retreat in the Bahamas that all this nonsense about oil spills, groundwater and air pollution, SuperFund clean-up sights and human deaths directly attributable to minor things like refinery explosions or exposure to toxic chemicals is all a vast left-wing conspiracy to keep Republican politicians from collecting hundreds of millions in campaign contributions and PAC funding from said petroleum companies. As Bill Cosby famously said, “Riiiiggghhhhtttt!”
January 29, 2012 at 3:17 am #734293
Sea3006MemberThis is not Berkeley, California. People need to spend more time on important things instead of pointless issues like plastic garbage sacks.
January 29, 2012 at 3:51 am #734294
metrognomeParticipantSea3006 — and what would those issues be, pray tell … I can hardly wait.
January 29, 2012 at 7:27 am #734295
JanSParticipantmetrognome…it’s a socialist plot, and Obama did it ;-)
January 29, 2012 at 3:08 pm #734296
JoBParticipantYou have to start somewhere..
Diane…
with evidence like that on top of the medical evidence perhaps it’s time we banned smoking altogether.
i always knew it was a messy habit
-
AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.