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[Anonymous]

NewRes, you’ve gone from racist, to inequality, to now simply inappropriate. Because you can’t handle self-effacing humor does not make it any of those things.

[Ken]

The idea that the Iraq “adventure” was worth it is silly.

Smart people knew it was a colossal bad idea when the neocons proposed it in the PNAC letter in 1998.

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

It did not suddenly become a good idea when the neocons came to power in 2000.

As I told my brother in law (Sgt. Maj 18th Airborne)and my nephew (Capt 82nd Airborne) in 02, I am not anti war, but I am anti stupidity.

War is the stick half of diplomacy. The goal of diplomacy it to leave the stick in the bag until there is no other choice. When actual diplomacy fails (not the sham half assed republican version) Then the politicians should hand the Military the bag with a well defined goal. The US military is the best on the planet at killing people and breaking things. Expecting the military to build or rebuild a country is not just stupid, it is contrary to their strengths and core function. When the military part of the job is done, they hand it back to the political and diplomatic leaders and go home. This is the core errors of the current administration. This is also the lesson learned from the Viet Nam war and it was not just Colin Powell who codified it.

As far as withdrawal, all the political leaders of either party have to do is give the order to withdraw. The generals are perfectly capable of formulating a plan to do so in an orderly fashion and installations and equipment will be either removed, transferred to Iraqi control, abandoned in place or destroyed depending on the cost in blood or treasure to deal with them. As long as this administration pretends to the crocodile tears of caring about Iraqi’s while not allowing even the translators to leave the country, let alone come to the US, we have no choice but to assume this “adventure” was designed to drive up the cost of oil for the benefit of the oil companies, and bankrupt the federal government for the benefit of the conservatives who wanted to kill the “new deal”.

[Tonya42]

I cannot believe that after 5 years some are still unclear as to why we went to war?

To establish a military/political foothold on the heart of the Arab world that will allow us to launch military operations into other places on the far side of the planet easier than Europe or Diego Garcia if necessary.

– To find, locate, destroy and prevent future creation of WMDs

– To stabilize control over the long term the world’s oil supplies.

– To bring long term strategic stability to the region by virtue of our long term presence, in the same way our presence in Asia and Europe stabilized those regions.

– To liberalize and bring democracy in the Middle East.

– To show planet Earth, and the muslim world in particular after 9/11, that the US can invade a country on the other side of the planet, take it over in 3 weeks, dismantle its government and armed forces, and occupy it for years.

– To cement American economic ties in the region and prepare it for future American investment, at the expense of Chinese investment, which was growing in Iraq prior to the war.

– To more forcefully be at the center of all things in the Persian gulf region. If the Gulf War got us a ‘seat at the table’, as the expression goes, the Iraq War would (in principle) put us at the head of that table.

And thats just off the top of my head. Now of course, some of these goals worked out better than others. But I really think the ‘why’ has been answered. The outstanding question is, is it immoral for a government to go to war for any of those things? I can think of a lot worse reasons to go to war than energy supplies or long term strategic stability. Examining if a country can accept that there are reasons to go to war other than national survival, threat or in response to attack – that is really the heart of the matter, and I think the root of the continuing debate.

*************************************************

And to: WSMom, who asked this brain teaser:

“Wasn’t “Tonya” Patty Hearst’s SLA name?”

DING DING DING You WIN!

However that is my real name, my other name is Anastasia and as you will probably chime in “Wasn’t that the name of the wicked step sister in Cinderella??” Let me help you along with a resounding YES.

[Anonymous]

Wow. You guys sure get offended when a white person is offended. I don’t see any reason for this to turn into a nasty debate. I haven’t once been disrespectful; you, on the other hand, seem quick to get heated.

No reason for it. I was just mading a point. You can’t have a website just like that one that is for any other culture or nationality, because it would be inappropriate. That is what bothers me.

[Anonymous]

You deemed it racist. That’s a very specific accusation. Now you want to explore equality? Because white, christian, republican, heterosexuals have a wonderful track record in that area as well.

[walfredo]

On a side note- as we mark the 5th year anniversary of this dumb war, and the 4000 American death, and the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi deaths, both civilian and insurgent. It seems like a great time to reflect on how this happened, and why it happened, and most importantly what could prevent this in the future.

Is it the politician who still thinks it was a great idea? The one who chose to do what she believed was politically expedient over what was right? Or was it the one who showed, judgement and courage and a depth of insight rarely seen.

A true leader:

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income – to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear – I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance. Corruption and greed. Poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not – we will not – travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

[Anonymous]

No. My argument actually doesn’t go that deep.

My problem is that you do not see any websites that poke fun at other cultures or nationalities. The fact that it is okay for a website like that to exist, while it’s counterpart would be deemed “racist” is what I have a problem with.

That is not equality. And to assume that it’s okay for that website to exist because of past injustices by white people, is not promoting equality.

[walfredo]

I just don’t see the point of the comparison I guess. You seem to be strongly implying that the Bush administration, and republicans in general are taking too much heat over this war, where in fact this war hasn’t been that bad (historically), and the ones with real consequences were started by democrats…

I’m not sure what the point of the data is, if not to make some point. If that wasn’t your point, what is?

[Anonymous]

NewRes, I’m not aware of them if they do exist. But I don’t know if they would be as funny. A lot of white people think they are so unique, gifted, special, talented, progressive, etc. It’s good to look in the mirror at some of the absurdities we are so attached to. At least I thought it was funny when I saw myself in many of the posts.

[herongrrrl]

So where do we go from here?

What’s going on in your garden spaces now? We just transplanted a plum tree and are waiting to see if it “took.” We’ve got some salad greens going gangbusters (I started them in the fall, and they just started to really take off), lots of garlic coming on strong, fava beans blooming and our sugar peas are about 5″ tall. Half the dining room table is covered with veggie and herb starts waiting for warmer weather to go out.

Question: is anyone interested in getting a LOT of free wood chips for mulching/landscaping? I learned that Asplundh gives them away free, but you have to be willing to accept an entire dumptruck load! I figured if enough folks here were interested in taking some, it might be worth it to coordinate a WS “dump” point to take advantage of the resource.

[c@lbob]

Very interesting links, Walfredo, and we shouldn’t forget about Rupert Murdoch throwing two fund raisers for Hillary in 2006, either:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/05/09/politics/main1600694.shtml

I think “The Nation” has it right about forces who are attempting to manipulate the Democratic Primary and how close they are to Hillary:

“By now, there is no question that the constant battering of the Democratic front-runner is being directed from the top of the network — which is owned by Hillary Clinton-backer Rupert Murdoch — rather than its news editors… A fair and balanced assessment of what’s going on at FOX has to go beyond the network’s on-air reports to consider the behind-closed-door machinations of the boss. To look elsewhere is to run the risk of being outFOXed by Rupert Murdoch.”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/thenation/20080322/cm_thenation/45301567

[walfredo]

There is no way I could support a candidate that lost in pledged delegates. I don’t think you can change the rules as you go, and I think it sets a terrible precident for all future campaigns; that the rules can be made up, and numbers can be reinterpreted to focus whatever calculation benefits you.

But I understand the media’s obsession with focusing on all 3 qualifiers- popular vote, pledged delegates, and contests won. This specific question is asked to Hillary supporters often- if your candidate at the end, trailed in all 3 of these categories, would she drop out… Not one surrogate will give a straight answer, so obviously instruction from the top is to keep the A-bomb on the table. The superdelegates selecting her, without any populist justification.

So, I’m not asking you to draw as hard a line as I think voters should. I’m asking, would you support a candidate that (I don’t care which one btw)lost in pledged delegates, contests won, and popular vote? What type of impact do you think this precedent would have on future primaries? How would you explain to supporters of the canidate (again don’t care who it is) who won all 3 of these measures why they aren’t the nominee, and why they should support the other candidate.

[charlabob]

Cap Hill (Madison) is our favorite because it has an attached parking ramp so on those rare rainy and stormy Seattle days you and your bags can stay dry from store to car.

I went to a huge TJs in Manhattan once and it was more fun than should be legal. Don’t ask if that’s all I can think of to do in NYC — the answer is yes :-) Many of the kids who stocked and checked out were actors and it was like being part of a theater group. Plus it was the only place in NYC I could afford groceries.

The kids here are fun, but not quite as talented.

[walfredo]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/04/limbaugh-urges-listeners-to-vote-for-clinton/

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/03/01/rush_limbaugh_urges_support_for_hillary_clinton_on_oreilly_factor.php

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080303152118AAGvC7q

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,334669,00.html

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/03/17/many_voting_for_clinton_to_boost_gop/

JoB- Pure slander? Not backed up? You stated “Rush Limbaugh is not supporting Hillary Clinton in the primary”

There are a half dozen links talking about it, from media outlets ranging from liberal to conservative. He talks about it everyday on his radio program. How can you possibly dispute this is the case?

Can you really be that far out of touch with reality? That’s quite an argument, it is slander for me to suggest that someone who has loudly, and adamantly supported your candidated for more then a month, supports your candidate!

[Anonymous]

Kayleigh, did you read the genius children? I know so many people who feel that way. And the Apple products. I can’t afford a mac but I tease my son about his *uniqueness* all the time.

[JanS]

now…walfredo, how would you answer that question? I know that you’re an Obama supporter, and that you have a feeling that somehow someone is going to “cheat” him out of the nomination. So…how would you vote in that situation?

[JanS]

walfredo…I gave your question some thought. I’m going to assume that you’re talking about if the nomination is somehow taken from Barack Obama in some underhanded way. Here’s my thought. I would still vote for Hillary (or Obama, if it were the opposite.) Either is better than the alternative. There is ..hmm..how can I say this nicely…there is no way in hell I’d ever vote for John McCain. And I WILL vote…not voting is not an option. If I didn’t vote, then that would mean that I can never complain about what comes along…that I just accept the status quo…

[Anonymous]

There’s one in Burien (15868 1st ave s)

Queen Anne (112 W Galer St.)

Capitol Hill (1700 E Madison St)

[Aim]

NewResident: Depending on what part of WS you’re in it’s either on Capital Hill, up on Aurora in Shoreline, or down in Burien on 1st.

We take Roxbury to 509 to the 146th(?) exit (the one just before the airport exit) and then left on 1st. It takes about 7-10 minutes to get there from Westwood area.

I love their organic yogurts, eggs, soy milk, rice, etc. But my biggest favorite there is the flash-frozen fish. They’ve got salmon, swordfish, ahi, etc for incredibly cheap – very high quality. Sure you can get the same stuff at QFC or Safeway or PCC, but TJ’s is the only place I can fill my cart entirely full of healthy food and great snacks, all organic, for around $100. At QFC 2 bags ends up around $100, and at Safeway I may get 3-4 bags. We skip their produce and hit Tony’s for fruits and veggies once a week.

I can’t stand dealing with Costco – too crowded and too much food for a 2-person family without a chest freezer. I’m sure it has its place, but it’s not useful for us.

[Gina]

Parking? That doesn’t seem to be an excuse used at the Queen Anne TJ location. That is one tight lot for parking.

[JoB]

charlabob…

the only thing i take personally is the attitude on this thread and the others that my candidate has no right to continue campaigning.. for me.

And the attitude that my candidate can do no right… deserves disrespect… while your candidate can do no wrong and anyone who mentions any is playing dirty politics.

Obama currently has a lead.. but that is all he has.. a lead… he hasn’t won.

if Hillary said.. geez.. i can see you guys are really going to make a lot of noise about this and i’ll quit now to save my dignity… she would be abandoning those who support her… and i wouldn’t respect her for it… not after all the grief i have taken for supporting her.

Obama is just now getting an idea what the fight is going to be like in the fall if he is the nominee.

let’s see what he does with it before we throw all our eggs into one basket.

[Shibaguyz]

I will apologize in advance for not having been clear up to this point. I am usually a better communicator than this but it appears that my point has gotten lost and has been summed up for me several times without actually being stated well at all.

I will restate my position about this thread. I do not feel entitled to do anything when it comes to any part of my life. I feel like I have earned the right to do a lot of things in my life but I do not feel like any of it came as part of an entitlement package somewhere along the line.

Being able to take our “boyz” along with us is a privilege that we gratefully acknowledge whenever possible. Yes, we take them just about everywhere with us. If I started a list, it would go on forever. There is, however, no sense of entitlement with that. We always ask an establishment if they allow dogs and we do go to some places without them. However, over the past few years, we have found a surprising number of restaurants, coffee houses, shops and stores that gladly welcome our family.

My issue here is with the West Seattle Market managers and their abrupt change of rules that shocked both us and the other dog families that were left standing on the edges of the market a little at a loss for what to do.

When we asked for an explaination, we were given the run around and told that if we didn’t leave immediately we would be removed. You can go back through this thread to get the entire picture.

I posted here wondering if anyone had any information to share. NOT to say that we were entitled to take our boyz anyplace with us that we pleased despite the wishes of the owner.

I have always clearly understood that the markets are managed by different people. My comparison of the two markets was for the purpose of trying to find out what the laws were in this state regarding outdoor markets.

My questions have now been answered and I will take up any remaining issues with the managers of the West Seattle Farmers Market.

[shihtzu]

I’ve sent requests via the Trader Joe’s website and asked about it at the store. They said not any time soon due to parking.

[JoB]

The West Seattle Blog Forum members are at it again and Mike from PS Key and Lock tells me that he is overwhelmed with the response from the community.

he was there tonight to let us know what was happening and what we could actually do to help besides donate to the bank account that has been set up in his business’s name at Wells Fargo..

As he explained it, his space was 2X4 construction and dry wall over old-fashioned plaster… that made his business a little “easy bake” oven… but confined the fire mainly to his unit.

Unfortunately, it also made the fire pretty hot and besides burning anything combustible, basically fused anything metal.

The landlord will reconstruct the walls of his space… and will make it possible for them to remain in the space… but he will need to build cabinets and counters and get new key machines… as they were basically fused in the fire.

Thanks to this forum, we already have offers to help with his construction.. and tonight we got contacts through the Morgan Community Association to request donations of building material… once we know what will be needed.

There is a possibility that the Association of Locksmiths of America will be able to help them with new machines…

What they need most is cash to cover all the incidentals involved in running a business.

Several of our forum members have donated items for a raffle.. with more already promised by local business owners…

So.. we will be holding a raffle.

We would also like to hold a social event in conjunction with the raffle and will be looking for a space that is available mid April.

Many of you wanted to know what we need.

We need a local non-profit that is willing to partner with us and the Morgan Community Association to put on this benefit… So if you know a group that might be willing to work with us on this event to avoid tax issues… please have them contact us… it’s a good local cause.

We need more items for the raffle.. so if you have ideas there… or know someone who might donate.. please contact us.

We have the beginnings of a great committee.. but we could use your help. We had great input tonight from everyone who attended… and we can always use more.

We are having another planning meeting on Saturday at 10 AM at Uptown Espresso…

Members of the committee will be at work this week and we will start off the meeting with a report on their work.

Hopefully, we will have both a time and space for the event. If our first choice works out.. we will have an activity… if not that will probably still be open.

There is still plenty of time to join this committee… whether you can attend the meeting on saturday or not…

This committee will be doing a lot of it’s planning and business by email… so let me know if you want to be added to that list… I will be glad to pass the info along to our communications person..

we will be asking for real contact information from anyone who joins the committee to keep this project from being hijacked by the unscrupulous.

I will be the contact person since my email is already out there.. so email me at joanne (at) brayden.org.

[Kayleigh]

$500 billion (billions of that $ lost, stolen, or squandered) and 4,000 American lives?

I’m not sure anything is worth that. And I don’t recall it being presented to Congress and the American people as a “generational war”. We were supposed to be greeted as liberators and in and out of Iraq quickly, with our ultra-cool precision weapons technology.

Revisionist history? You bet.

Welcome to the military-industrial complex and a world of perpetual war.