Admiral/California signal timing, again: Still not right?


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One month after SDOT reported tweaking the Admiral/California signal timing, some drivers say it’s still not right. Acemotel brought this up in the WSB Forums today – not long after we got the following e-mail from Ted:

Whatever timing changes the city made a few months ago to the light at Admiral Ave SW and SW California, it is much worse than it used to be. Today I was again frustrated with long backups going east on SW Admiral toward California Ave. The backups on Admiral go beyond the yellow flashing light at Waite Street, which is already an extremely dangerous intersection. The backups make it hard to pull out on to Admiral from Waite St. and then there is a five, six, seven cycle wait to get through the first light at California. This causes people to make all kinds of dangerous moves. They bypass the queue on Admiral by driving for blocks up the left turn lane, etc. I find the problem to be bad in the afternoons on weekdays, but even much worse on weekends. Today I drove through the back up at 10:30 AM Saturday morning.

I imagine someone at the city thinks they improved things at the intersection. I think they need to get away from their desk and their computer and get out on the road and see what they have done. /with the changes, it is SLIGHTLY better going west on Admiral in the afternoons on weekdays and SLIGHTLY better going north on California and turning left onto Admiral. I make both moves regularly and used to have a two cycle wait during busy times. Now I SOMETIMES get a one cycle wait. Usually, it is still two cycles. But these minor improvements are not worth the big delays and safety problems that have been created. We do not need another serious accident at Admiral and Waite St. because of this!

Please go back to the way things were . . . .

The city suggests two ways to report traffic-signal problems – the overall hotline 206-684-ROAD and/or traffic.signals@seattle.gov; more background about the signal system on this page.

18 Replies to "Admiral/California signal timing, again: Still not right?"

  • Ken November 14, 2009 (10:26 pm)

    The link at the bottom of the post (“more background about the signal system on this page”) contains some helpful information about the city’s plans for improving traffic flow at signaled intersections… in 2004. Oh, well. :)

  • David Hutchinson November 15, 2009 (12:47 am)

    I totally agree that the timing has been messed up. I live down on Alki and frequently drive up the Admiral hill. Now it is not unusual to encounter 2-3 block long backups from the California/Admiral light. It normally was only this bad in the summer months with traffic leaving the beach.

  • carraig na splinkeen November 15, 2009 (8:38 am)

    SDOT is breaking a cardinal rule of traffic management, which is: deterioration of Level of Service (LOS) at an intersection that is causing a lot of traffic diversion to neighborhood streets. They could do green time eastbound only and westbound only instead to address matters—regardless, their recent efforts have resulted in worsening conditions, not better.

  • JayDee November 15, 2009 (9:59 am)

    I also note a lack of synchronicity (I love spell check) in the lights at 42nd and 41st eastbound. Often there will be a backup at eastbound Admiral and California partially caused by the 42nd light and somewhat inattentive motorists. Then you’d hit 41st and stop again. Sometimes you don’t know what you’ve got until it is gone.

  • Molly November 15, 2009 (10:12 am)

    I agree that the traffic going eastbound on Admiral has become terrible since the timing on the Admiral/California light was changed. It routinely takes 3 or 4 light changes for me to get through the light in the middle of the day during a Saturday and in the winter.

  • coffee November 15, 2009 (11:13 am)

    OMG YES! When I go to get my dogs at Muttley Crew Cuts its a total mess because I have to pick them up around 5 and the backups are far worse than they ever have been! Also, I noticed 35th traveling north from Roxbury to Morgan, those lights seem to suddenly be different, much more reds now, one turns green and the next is turning yellow before you get up to it.

  • MSW November 15, 2009 (11:50 am)

    Perhaps this is part of SDOT’s “Traffic Calming Program”. You know, slow everything down to a point where you can walk faster to where ever you want to go. I’m always suspicious when SDOT says they will improve something. I have found that it ends up making traffic worst. A prime example is the Bridge Way North Street Improvements which SDOT spent 4.1 million to do and now you can see traffic backed up all the way to The Canlis Restaurant during rush hour when I’m heading home. It use to be you could get off the Aurora Bridge north bound and go right to Stone Way, but now there are a couple of lights that backs traffic onto the bridge. The smooth flow of east and west that use to be there is gone, now it’s stop and go. Very annoying and slow.

  • Tim November 15, 2009 (12:01 pm)

    It was way better before. Why can’t they just go back to the way it was before. I am not a usual govt. basher but this smacks of someone in some sort of power trying to make themselves look good by creating work wnd fixing things that aren’t broken. By the way, this happens all the time in the corporate world.

  • Alex November 15, 2009 (1:22 pm)

    The issue at the Admiral/California intersection is not just that there needs to be a slight tweek to the timings –that will only benefit one direction at the expense of another. The problem is that only one lane gets through eastbound on Admiral at most hours of the day, due to parked cars in the right lane. It is a no-parking zone for only a few hours in the morning.

    We should make the right lane on Admiral eastbound no-parking 24 hours a day for the few blocks surrounding that intersection. Problem solved.

  • Smitty November 15, 2009 (2:24 pm)

    Bingo Alex!

    Lot of people taking a right turn onto California and only a handful get through when pedestrians are crossing.

    Do not allow four or five cars to park in that right lane and you solve half the problem.

  • DownOnAlki November 15, 2009 (4:14 pm)

    I had sent an email to SDOT at the end of October. Here is the response I received October 26th. I, too, had suggested making the south side of Admiral no parking as well as suggesting a possible all-walk to eliminate the lack of car movement due to parked cars and pedestrians. You can see his response. I encourage all of you to email Chris and let him know what your experiences and suggestions are.

    Dear Ms.

    Thank you for taking the time to write to the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) with your observations about the timing of the signalized intersection at California Avenue SW and SW Admiral Way.

    We changed the signal timing along the Admiral corridor around a month ago, and we have been actively monitoring the traffic since. We believe that the corridor is operating very well during the AM and PM peak travel times. Within the next week, I will be making some minor changes to the signal timing at the intersection of California Avenue SW and SW Admiral Way for the off-peak and weekend patterns that will extend the green time east- and westbound, but all in all we are happy with this signal optimization project results. Previous signal timing heavily favored east- and westbound traffic on Admiral Way; this new timing manages the demand more equably.

    You also suggested operating this intersection with an all-way walk. The all-way walk operation is used at a very few intersections in Seattle (four, to be exact) because it tends to cause delay for all users of the intersection. Although there is high pedestrian traffic at California and Admiral, it is not of sufficient volume that would cause us to consider an all-way walk at this location.

    Again, thank you for your inquiry. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly at (206) 386-4529 or chris.faulkner@seattle.gov. I will be happy to assist you further.

    Sincerely,

    Christopher Faulkner, Associate Civil Engineer
    Seattle Department of Transportation

  • duncan November 15, 2009 (6:53 pm)

    yahoo all you people on alki .
    i was born here in ole ws 1953
    screw you on new alki aka little waikiki
    drive your beach to Spokane ST.
    stay out of real WS

  • zgh2676 November 16, 2009 (12:27 am)

    Hey DownOnAlki,

    So I wrote Chris Faulkner as well, and a funny thing happened…I got the following response:

    Thank you for taking the time to write to the Seattle Department of Transportation (SDOT) with your observations about the timing of several signalized intersections on SW Admiral Way.

    We changed the signal timing around a month ago, and we have been actively monitoring the traffic since. We believe that the corridor is operating very well during the AM and PM peak travel times. Within the next week, I will be making some minor changes to the signal timing at the intersection of California Avenue SW and SW Admiral Way for the off-peak and weekend patterns that will extend the green time east- and westbound, but all in all we are happy with this signal optimization project results. Previous signal timing heavily favored east- and westbound traffic on Admiral Way; this new timing manages the demand more equably.

    You also suggested operating this intersection with an all-way walk. The all-way walk operation is used at a very few intersections in Seattle (four, to be exact) because it tends to cause delay for all users of the intersection. Although there is high pedestrian traffic at California and Admiral, it is not of sufficient volume that would cause us to consider an all-way walk at this location.

    Again, thank you for your inquiry. If you have any additional questions or concerns, please feel free to contact me directly at (206) 386-4529 or chris.faulkner@seattle.gov. I will be happy to assist you further.

    Sincerely,

    Christopher Faulkner, Associate Civil Engineer
    Seattle Department of Transportation

    Word for word, exactly the same. I ended up calling him and he informed me that they were “very pleased with how the signal is operating and moving traffic”. He said they were trying to make the north/south traffic on California move more efficiently. When asked about the parking spots blocking the turning lane most of the day, he said they were running into resistance from the shop owners (dry cleaners and such).

    I asked if they’d been back to see it work in the real world. He said there’s only so much time they can spend on each project and the one time they went down to check it out, it seemed to be working well enough. I informed him it was awful and they should reconsider. I then got the brush-off/ I’m-busy tone from him as he ended the call with me.

    It would be nice to get sincere attention to resident’s concerns from the SDOT.

  • David November 16, 2009 (11:34 am)

    I agree. I live on 44th & Admiral. Turning left (south) on to California takes forever sometimes. I’ve noticed that it sometimes goes through two cycles before the left turns green.

  • redfoxx November 16, 2009 (12:55 pm)

    2 weeks after the timing changed I called SDOT and was forwarded on to Christopher. He didn’t answer, so I left a message saying I would like to discuss some concerns with the new timing. He of course never called me back, so this prepared response he had for both of you doesn’t surprise me.

    Before the change I didn’t really see a problem with the North/South flow of traffic. The only thing that was slightly annoying was making a left turn onto Admiral when only 3 or 4 cars would make it through, but most of the time you would really only have to wait 2 cycles at most.

  • WSB November 16, 2009 (1:00 pm)

    I haven’t been to Admiral today but I saw crews out at both Alaska/California and Fauntleroy/California, the latter definitely checking out a signal box. Will be following up with SDOT (already have a message out to them about the Junction crew, to see if that’s the long-awaited traffic-cam installation) … TR

  • DownOnAlki November 16, 2009 (1:36 pm)

    redfoxx, I couldn’t agree with you more. The only issue I ever had in the past was waiting two, sometimes three light cycles when coming from Safeway onto California (north) to make a left onto Admiral (west). Tracy, I am looking forward to what you find out. Thank you!

  • Angry November 17, 2009 (1:31 am)

    I just wrote Chris, and suspect he’ll brush me off too.

    We need to organize, as this situation is crazy. Hundreds of cars beging delayed daily because a dry cleaner wants parking 5 feet from their door? This access belongs to all of us!

    I will be asking for Chris’ supervisor and walk this issue up the chain of command to start with. If we organize, they’ll fix this.

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