SDOT has added another West Seattle community-meeting appearance at which reps will discuss the recently announced plan to replace a downhill driving lane on the Highland Park Way hill with a bike lane, a multi-use path, or both. If you want to hear about the plan and/or ask questions, be at the online meeting of the District 1 Community Network, 7 pm Wednesday (June 5). The Zoom link is in the agenda. Also note that the survey about the proposal remains open until June 15.
Really hope SDOT doesn’t listen to the criminals who want to speed and dangerously pass going down this hill. Having a wider path and/or a bike land would be amazing! And slower cars a huge plus!
It is legal in the State of Wa to exceed the speed limit in order to pass a slow moving vehicle, just fyi.
Please, you know perfectly well that people are not only speeding to pass. Everyone is above the (safe, legal) speed limit almost constantly.
Only when the vehicle you’re passing is going below the posted speed limit. Not when you’re impatient with someone going “only” 30 in a 25 zone. That is not legal.
Not a license to speed and not applicable to Highland. Quoting RCW 46.61.425: “may exceed the speed limit…on highways having only one lane of traffic in each direction, at only such a speed and for only such a distance as is necessary to complete the pass with a reasonable margin of safety”
Highland Park Way is not a highway. It’s an arterial and the law is the same in both lanes. This right here is why we need traffic calming on this hill.
Nope! Wrong. Read up! Ignornace of the law is no excuse. …. PROVIDED, That a person following a vehicle driving at less than the legal maximum speed and desiring to pass such vehicle may exceed the speed limit, subject to the provisions of RCW 46.61.120 on highways having only one lane of traffic in each direction, at only such a speed and for only such a distance as is necessary to complete the pass with a reasonable margin of safety.
You just proved what I said. It is legal in the state of Wa to exceed the speed limit in order to pass a slow moving vehicle.
Feels like splitting hairs debating about speeding laws while passing when you can drive around without a license plate, drivers license or insurance. Without enforcement you can just steal a car and ram it into a business front repeatedly and steal items. Society as a whole is decaying. There’s so many laws in the books I’m probably breaking some sort of law stepping out of my front door now.
One lane each way with a barrier in the middle. It’s not necessary for this stretch to have 50+mph traffic. And do the same with Admiral.
That would be so nice to do on Admiral. Also, close California completely to traffic between Oregon and Edmunds!
I just can’t forget the years of shutdown and losing another method of egress seems shortsighted.
I live over here. When the bridge was down the roadway was NEVER backed up eastbound. Reducing it to one lane will not be a problem
I remember the road being blocked in both downhill lanes no matter whether the first south bridge was up or down.
I commute that hill every day and during the bridge closure there were daily backups on both hill and Holden street at the top of the hill. If the intent is to slow drivers down, traffic enforcement cops can hang out there a day or two every week.
Oh heck no. I don’t know where you live but your statement is patently untrue.I live on the hill. When the bridge was down the traffic was backed up well up the hill every day. Backed up to the point that it took 45 min to get from Othello just *to* the bridge, not even across it. Pre- covid, When WS Bridge was closed down due to major accidents, the traffic was backed up all the way to the top of the hill and maybe beyond. We absolutely need the capacity of the second downhill lane during peak hours.
Disagree!! We live at the top of this hill and when the ws bridge was shut down, traffic getting off this hill was a freaking nightmare!!!
I wholeheartedly disagree with the above statements, but would truly like to resolve one issue before going on to the next. Can they let us know the decision on Trenton?And can we please turn down the rhetoric? People who disagree with you are not criminals. I have never gone 50mph on that road. I have never seen anyone pass another car- that would require going into ongoing traffic. Since there are two lanes in each direction, cars are legally moving according to the current traffic design.
Cars are moving legally if they’re at or below the speed limit. The overwhelming majority on this road are not, and therefore they are in fact breaking the law.
Worried about traffic? Support this project. The more people who bike and walk the fewer cars there are on the road. Its simple.
The working poor don’t have the option of donning spandex and taking their fancy bike to work. The idea that we can fix traffic issues by pandering to this elite bike lobby is ignorant at best and elitist. If you work in fancy office building and point to point commute daily, then yes get out of your cars. If you’re a tradesperson, a delivery driver, a family that’s has kids going lots of different directions, have to work multiple jobs just to survive the crazy inflation (another product of ignorant elitism) then you’re going to be more car dependent. And what happens if there’s a natural disaster or the bridge is closed do to any sort of incident? We just get stuck to suffer here? There is a major public safety component to this conversation too. The number of lanes in and out of West Seattle are grossly under capacity for our growing population. If the goal is slow people down put up a stop sign and camera to enforce it. Spending big money to reduce capacity is irresponsible.
HERE HERE! Highland Park has been dumped on for too long and we’re not going to take it anymore. This is one of the very few major routes in and out of our neighborhood. I bet most of the commenters here barely even use this road. My family and I use it several times a day to get to school, work and grocery stores in Burien. I know it was real hard for you folks up in Admiral and Fauntleroy when the bridge was closed and you had the suffer the drive through our neighborhood but we deal with this every single day. So don’t come in here complaining about speeding or road calming when you don’t even live or work in the area. We are not criminals because we live here.
KB1000 – your life and the lives of your family members are important to us. We want these improvements so you can safely drive on Highland Park without getting hit and killed by a speeding car driver. Thank you for pointing out how important this is for the community!
Always, always, always, it’s always “the working poor” who get trotted out in these comment sections. The average used vehicle price is around $27,000, right now, which is 12 times the cost of the most expensive Rad Power Bike. Elitism?! Are you kidding me?
Working poor don’t have electric bikes. Thanks for making the point for us all. So shockingly out of touch.
$27,000 sounds pretty privileged and unnecessary to a guy who has never spent more than $5,000 on good, reliable vehicles. You are very out of touch if this was your best argument
100%Not only elitist, also ableist. I can’t ride a bike, I can’t walk up a hill. This and the money wasting light rail are in the same basket of bad ideas. These projects will drive the service class, like me, out of West Seattle.
Marge, 25% of this states population doesn’t even HAVE a drivers license, and there are plenty who cannot drive due to disabilities. The ableism accusations in either direction are a bit silly–access for all should be a priority, and that cannot happen with just one mode of transportation.
West Marge – thank you for pointing out not everyone can ride a bike. Some folks have no choice but to drive a car. That’s why we need to invest in better cycling facilities so that more people can ride bikes to free up road space for folks like you who are unable to ride and need to drive. We want you to be able to stay in West Seattle and drive your car. Hundreds of us have committed to cycling so that road space is freed up for cars for people who need to drive.
So Says The Affluent – you are so right about the working poor often needing to drive a car. Let’s get as many people as possible biking so we can free up road space for cars. The working poor don’t have an extra hour a day to sit in traffic. We need more people taking transit and more people biking as our population increases. Improved bicycle facilities will help get more folks pedaling. Thank you for pointing this out!
Okay skeeter, but please don’t apply your blanket statements everywhere. Do you live by this hill? A bike path here would only lead to a bike path to a further destination. Nothing in this proposal increases transit. Let’s be realistic and keep the throughput for traffic lanes. Creating a new traffic jam with such minimal gains seems asinine. There is plenty of room to make a wider bike lane if needed, but based off demand it is not. Anytime I walk this hill I am often alone.
How many decades have people been driving this road with no significant problems? I know I personally have driven it for over 60 years. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it! This is a dangerous thing to reduce the number of lanes and is grossly wasteful of our tax dollars! SDOT please pack up your sales pitch and go do something useful. Hey – how about putting in the storm sewers at the south border of this area as was promised over 15 years ago so our properties stop being flooded and sliding? How about putting in a high barrier to lower the horrible noise and filth from Roxbury. I can think of dozens of useful projects but this is NOT one of them.
I just drove along the new revised street on Alki. If you want a real brain test try and figure out where parking is allowed. There are so many signs it is a total cluster.
The entitlement, and yes, able-ism of so many of the commenters in this thread advocating for closing roads to force everyone to walk and bike everywhere, and damn the car drivers, is astounding. Read my lips. YOU WILL NOT WIN. There are more of us than you. Oh and by the way, I like and use public transportation. But I’m not giving up my freedom and my roads because you’re selfish and have all the time in the world to mosey your way through life. Understand this: not everyone is like you and you cannot make us be so.
I must have missed the part of this plan that calls for banning cars. Seriously, you are embarrassing yourself going all Braveheart on a modest road diet. PS the extremely selective – one might even say tokenizing – use of inclusive rhetoric is extremely unconvincing.
Not all of us can or will be able to drive, including my disabled family members. Or me when I was a child, or when injured, or when I age out of safely being able to do so. Luckily, it’s not a war. I also drive and ride transit. There’s plenty of room on our roads for everyone to get along safely, this project is just an example of taking the priority away from drivers in cars moving as fast as possible at the cost of everyone’s safety, including their own, the standard of 70+ years of road design, and considering an alternative of all forms of transportation. As a regular driver, I fully support that. I’m happy to see those in charge of our roads, and elsewhere in the US, make our lives a little safer an more equitable. Take good care.
“My freedom.” “My roads.” Funny, I don’t see your name on them, Danimal. And you’re accusing everyone else of being “selfish?” Got some news for ya — actually, “we” will win, because we always do, because no city in human history has ever successfully relied on private vehicles to serve a growing popultion’s transportation needs, and Seattle will not be the first city to do so. So, I will not be “reading your lips.” Sorry!
Danimal, yes there are more of you (cars) than us (bikers and walkers) because you keep killing us with your cars. —Mike
you trolling or did you really say “my roads” and then immediately call others selfish?
You’re so right Danimal. We need more people biking to free up road space for people who need or want to drive a car. I’m sick of sitting in traffic and I want more people on bikes!! That’s one of the reasons I support bicycle facilities.
Of all the project SDOT could be doing this is the one they pick? WHEN the bridge shuts down again, all those in favor of this project will be signing a different tune. SPD is worried it would cost too much to assign a traffic officer. If they stop and ticket 24 cars per day (easily done at 4 per hour during a 6 hour shift) at $156 per ticket they could score $26,000 per week, $104,000 per month, $1.257 million per year. Hmm..maybe it would pay for itself?
additional administrative costs to collect the fines, legal costs to handle challenges, cost of employing officers and other police resources, and then whatever potential societal costs of increased police/public interactions. and it’s not guaranteed to even work either by changing diver behaviors or catching violators. or you can do something once, change the road, and then you don’t need reactive enforcement. that would pay for itself by doing the work itself.
You are kidding yourself if you think more traffic patrol officers is a bad investment for this city.
So why wasn’t this done during all the changes last year? This is a waste of funds and time. Does anyone with .gov behind their email address communicate?
Reducing lane capacity to cause more traffic jams is the wrong solution to lower speeds. Please hire more police! When there was the threat of a cop writing tickets people drove slower. Heck I’d even settle for some speed humps but please leave the throughput alone. It seems insane when we are planning for more growth to keep reducing lane capacity. Yes we need more bike and transit too but the vehicle traffic will increase too. Not advocating to increase lane capacity but let’s please now reduce it. Make a nice path to nowhere next to the two lanes and call it a day.
Oh for God’s sake, a downhill bike lane for, what the less than 1.5% that might actually use it? What a waste of money. No, just no to it all.
I get it, we want to slow down speeds. Fine. Again, has SDOT spoken to Emergency services on their views? Yes, the West Seattle Bridge is expected to not have any issue but what about freak accidents and natural disasters that can put the bridge out? Does West Seattle have or is need of any evacuation routes?
This is not a smart move. When the bridge was down, it was a nightmare. It was backed up in both directions. I live just right off Holden…. been here for 30 years. I saw it and still see it get backed up now. The amount of people walking or riding that hill is not worth taking away a line when they can improve the sidewalk, add speed bumps, actually give people tickets. Really it is not going to make people that want to drive crazy any slower. They will just try and pass in oncoming lanes. I am the working poor and have a family and there is no way we could get around just on bikes. Plus I’m driving a car from 2005 so definitely not worth no $27,000.Plus I swear that all these people who are saying walk, bike, take a bus don’t have any significant experience having to lug a weeks+ worth of family laundry and groceries on them. Or having to leave 2 hours or so just to be on time to an appointment cus you don’t have a car or the money to pay for an Uber…
I am not a traffic engineer, but examining SDOTs proposals from a practical perspective, without respect to mode of transit, it seems like grade is being blatantly ignored. The primary reason the vast majority of cars (and bikes) speed here is due to physics — either because they are not braking constantly, or not gearing down. Similarly, uphill, cars may accelerate over the speed limit to keep their automatic transmissions from shifting up and down. None of SDOTs proposals addressed speed due to grade. There is no reason to expect that traffic will slow down significantly just because the roadway has only a single lane in the downhill. It’s still a long steep roadbed to a light at the bottom. Some other type of traffic metering mechanism that gets drivers to slow completely midway would likely be more calming.For the record, I live a few blocks away from the intersection of Highland Park way and Holden, and have seen traffic accumulate here with population growth for 25 years. A primary arterial during the WS bridge shutdown, connecting here, was Sylvan to Dumar to Holden and it was often a parking lot, with a flood of neighborhood cut-through. Traffic is still much heavier through that corridor than it was even 15 years ago and with density increases, even when light rail arrives, it’s going to continue to get more cars.
“Some other type of traffic metering mechanism” what did you have in mind? your argument is that due to the grade there’s nothing to be done about speeding, so how could there be any other mechanism? you say “There is no reason to expect that traffic will slow down significantly
just because the roadway has only a single lane in the downhill” yet there’s nothing to back that up, especially with “I am not a traffic engineer”. lane reductions and narrowing has been shown to work in all environments, and is a federally recommended standard practice to reduce driver’s speeds.
Reasonable point. Perhaps a metering light. Or just a simple stop sign and a traffic cam? What do you think?
Put in speed humps then? But honestly I can think of 100x other roads with more pressing safety needs than this stretch of road. Put in a middle barrier (the biggest risk) and call it a day.
sick and tired of folks donning the experience of marginalized groups to maintain their privileged status quo. never a thought is given to the fact that disenfranchised communities (usually of color) bear the brunt of road-cause pollution (think South Park, think Georgetown). never a thought when bringing up ableism that there’s hundreds of sidewalk crossings without curb ramps, or wide and long arterials with no crossing because their infrastructure is always second to ensuring roads are for cars; that you’re entirely forsaking those with disabilities that are much more vulnerable than commenters here because they’re neither affluent enough to own a car or hire a caretaker and are only able to get around using our sorely under-resourced buses, sidewalks and paths. y’all drivers are obsessed with feeling oppressed when it’s at the behest of more marginalized communities that you drive yoir convince from. grasping at straws with either doomsaying equating taking away a lane is taking away freedom (no mention that it’s at the government’s massive subsidization and oppression of other’s you have roads in the first place) or the armchair traffic analysts that can’t think outside of their lived, car centeic experience. if y’all drivers were actually in bad straights like you like to roleplay and couldn’t own a car (because like many have said and folks like I experience: cars are extremely expensive) and had to use PT to get around you see how mindblowingly catered to cars are at everyone else’s expense.
Sick and tired of people like bbron advocating for more traffic jams in neighborhoods they don’t live in and masking it as caring about curb ramps when this proposal is about lane reductions. Curb ramps already exist on this stretch of the road. Please, go and improve the existing walking path. Make it wider, smoother, glorious. This can all be accomplished and leave the traffic throughput the same.
The real safety hazards on this section of Highland Park Way are road bed grade (steep hill) and road/path surface. None of the SDOT proposals address speed up in all modes due to grade, nor do they address rainfall/run off and future plans and costs of maintenance and debris removal. It would also be helpful to see how the removal of a lane at the confluences of intersections with West Marginal, 99 and 599 and 1st Ave S could affect overall traffic patterns in and out of West Seattle. I think residents need to see more in depth thought and planning around this project. Again. This hill is steep. The plan views in the proposed options of lanes of all look flat instead “really steep hill.” Almost all of the interactive maps on seattle.gov/transportation depict flat planes, yet we know our city has many hills. Reminds me grimly of Edward Tufte’s criticism of graphics depicting O rings on the Challenger space shuttle. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/06/21/when-graphs-are-a-matter-of-life-and-death
Given the volumes of traffic there and the different traffic streams all on that hill at the same time, choking HPW down to one downhill traffic lane is an incredibly bad idea from a safety perspective. It’s hard to believe that even the itty of Seattle would be that dumb and irresponsible. But they seem hell-bent on making things worse. Guess it’s Film at 11, huh?
I’ll continue to say it, and laugh at the ire thrown at me. In a city that continues to grow exponentially with a garbage public transit system (can’t get a bus in a reasonable manner if you live south of Roxbury in Arbor Heights), the city keeps trying to reduce access for vehicles which only 1. Increases idling which is an environmental hazard, 2. Encourages reckless driving by slowing everyone down who are trying to get to their jobs, appointments, etc., 3. Increases amounts of time sitting which is as bad as smoking and overall is shortsighted. How does More People, more vehicles = let’s make it harder to navigate this already jigsaw puzzle of a road system we call home. So tired of all of it, when that bridge goes down again I don’t want to see ANYONE complain about commute times because supporting initiatives like this just continue to paint West Seattle into a corner instead of providing more open avenues to get in and off of the peninsula.
How many of the green trees on the south side of the road will be removed for the path, is that a greenway or part of a park and restricted? There also isn’t power for lights on that side of the street either, I didn’t see any $$ calculated in for that in the proposal.
The limited incident data SDOT provided fails to justify the need or
costs for any vehicle lane reduction. This would severely
effect commuters, commercial traffic, our growing resident community, and
— critically — first responders. Suggesting otherwise is woefully
myopic for our crucial neighborhood arterial. For the dozen or so bikers who desperately want to ride down this hill, go for it. Let SDOT expand the already existing path into a bike lane to feed their warped Vision Zero…. but Highland + Admiral + Roxbury
need to maintain their lane counts.
Just love how city of Seattle and SDOT are working so hard and spending so much TAX dollars to pit Vehicle drivers against Bike and Walking groups….. ;) When I read these comments most all vehicle drivers have no issues with a new Bike/Walking path if it would replace existing path and leaving traffic lanes as is. Most all bike riders and walkers just want traffic lanes canceled…. very unfair use of tax dollars. Improvements should benefit all. Same as redesigning roadway at Alki point. SDOT can’t maintain roads we have today because of funding they say……… VOTE and show your approval
Bad idea. I drive this daily. There is not a significant amount of pedestrian or bike traffic. This will only make things worse for the people that live in this part of West Seattle. Bikes are not the answer to traffic problems. Another pandering response to say something is being done.
have you considered that there may not be many bikers because they don’t feel safe biking here? many bikers die on roads like this that have fast traffic.
I considered, and then considered reality. We can also widen the lane or just smooth it out and not take away a traffic lane. Will result in a marginal increase in bike traffic and still serve the needs of people contributing to the greater Seattle economy.
It almost seems like they are trying to confine us to the peninsula by inhibiting our egress/access. People will CHOOSE their option of transport that best fits their lifestyle. No amount of blatant opinion shaming will change that. Get over yourselves, with the dictator like demands. You can have a opinion, but cannot dictate YOUR opinion.
Do any of you throwing around the phrase “working poor” actually know know any “working poor? I don’t mean token friends, I mean those who you actually spend time with, enough to know the difficulties they face. And no, by poor I don’t mean someone who is transiently poor who has mommy and daddy or a trustfund as a backup plan, I mean poor as having no fallback plan. There is a huge difference between someone who can pick and choose between buying a car or e-bike and a person who can’t. There is a huge difference between someone who chooses to ride the bus and a person who has no other choice. The lecturing about what the poor can, and can’t afford, from the finacially advantaged is sanctimonious and odious. And yes, I grew up dirt poor -in the so-called projects.
I mean if you guys are arguing safety. Any times there’s an emergency vehicle that needs to pass on Delridge, it is a literally a stand still as they cant even get around the one lane traffic. I do not believe reducing the lane will make anything safer. It’s just adding to the congestion. I live on top of the hill and take Highland Park hill every day. I think the money would be better towards more street light and fixing the existing side walk so it’s not so bumpy and uneven.
Sorry, comment time is over.
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