No decision on Alki Point Stay Healthy Street yet, but here’s what survey respondents want

Throughout the fall, SDOT ran a survey, floating possible designs for the future of the Stay Healthy Street (aka Keep Moving Street) around Alki Point. Tonight at a joint meeting of the city’s Pedestrian and Bicycle Advisory Boards, an SDOT rep presented part of the results. SHS program manager Summer Jawson first gave the toplines of how many responses they got, and how people were reached:

She said the results from the Alki Point survey, which closed two weeks ago, are still being “processed,” but two questions relevant to the boards’ focus areas turned out this way:

In both those questions, 40 percent of respondents said they felt safe in the street’s current configuration while getting around a non-motorized way. Another 40 percent said they’d prefer to have separate paths for people walking/running and riding/rolling, Less than 20 percent favored a “multi-use trail” for non-motorized users.

Jawson did not offer a timetable for deciding the future of the Alki Point stretch. She did say that the Stay Healthy Streets program citywide has almost $2 million in funding, from a program earmarked for COVID relief. The rest of West Seattle’s Stay Healthy Streets -the Delridge/Highland Park stretch and the High Point stretch – were mentioned only briefly, but Jawson said that recommendations are expected “soon” regarding what should be made permanent. Some decisions about the east West Seattle SHS were announced last month.

Also shown tonight, the potential gateway/signage for SHS, same renderings shown at this West Seattle meeting in October. (See the full slide deck from tonight’s presentation here.)

R. Rhoads January 6, 2022 (12:52 am)

Give us our streets back. They reduce our speed, dedicate a lane for buses then more space for bicycles. Have they given any thought to what this causes?Yup more pedestrian vehicle, bicycle collisions, people getting hurt because poor decision making . Then pat them selves on the back call the media to show what a good job they have done.Then take more roads ,limit access put the useless cut curbs in to create even more congestion. Then raise vehicle taxes again to fund the nonsense.

reed January 6, 2022 (11:48 am)

“Yup more pedestrian vehicle, bicycle collisions, people getting hurt because poor decision making.”

Any data to back that up?
Axe January 6, 2022 (12:26 pm)

Just leave earlier.
bill January 6, 2022 (8:14 pm)

“Useless cut curbs”? You mean the ADA ramps for wheelchairs and people challenged by steps? What do you have against people with mobility problems? Or do you mean the curb bulbs that narrow crossings at (very few) intersections, enabling pedestrians to cross more safely? Why do you object to safety? We all own “our streets”.

Plf January 6, 2022 (2:16 am)

So appears it’s a done deal any data on number of respondents who felt that the idea was a poor one and advocated for the street be open back up and not create a exclusive privileged area for wealthy residents

Rob January 8, 2022 (12:59 pm)

Spot on description “privileged rich, exsclusive area”,these streets are public land for all😡

BD January 6, 2022 (5:58 am)

Those survey questions are bizarre, not explicitly asking if the Alki Point street should be restored to it’s earlier condition, which apparently is not an option. The response to question 13 could be interpreted to mean that 40% want it returned to it’s original state with a street and sidewalk. Spending another $2 million on SHStreets seems wacky to me.

Lisa January 6, 2022 (6:22 am)

I’m curious if these were the only results they chose to share. Obviously they are pushing for the street to remain closed, regardless of how the survey turned out.Also, it’s a crime that millions of dollars are being spent to close streets as part of covid relief knowing what we know about the virus and it’s unlikely transmission outdoors. That money would be better spent elsewhere such as helping small businesses in our community survive. (Also, 2 million dollars to put street signs up? Oh that’s right, this is Seattle. We have to have lots of committee meetings and surveys…)

Rob January 8, 2022 (1:03 pm)

Yes a huge waste of money funds,used to work @ SDOT;They are experts @ wasteful spending 😡

Al King January 6, 2022 (6:45 am)

Curious. What % of residents in these areas park outside and walk in? What % tell visiting family and friends to park outside the area? What % want collection boxes put outside the closed area so that delivery trucks including mail don’t need to drive in?

Jay January 6, 2022 (11:00 am)

You’re fundamentally misunderstanding the stay healthy streets. Cars aren’t banned and the streets aren’t closed. Residents and visitors are welcome to drive there to meet people or park and walk on the beach. What the stay healthy streets do is close to through traffic.
- Pessoa January 6, 2022 (12:17 pm)
  
  There is no confusion, Jay. Closing public streets to motorized vehicles, through traffic or not, is not inclusive, and not in the spirit of enabling access to the beach for all.
- Pessoa January 6, 2022 (1:53 pm)
  
  No, there is no misunderstanding, Jay. Closing public streets to all but a select segment of non-motorist traffic is not inclusive, regardless of destination.
  - Jon Wright January 6, 2022 (5:41 pm)
    
    One could argue that making public right-of-way more accessible and usable to more people–not just motor vehicle operators–is the epitome of inclusiveness.
    - Pessoa January 7, 2022 (8:49 am)
      
      Changing the definition of “access” to mean only a narrowly defined means of access is sophistry. It is a disingenuous argument to give the illusion of increased access.
    - Pessoa January 7, 2022 (10:12 am)
      
      Jon: By more narrowly redefining the definition of “access?” This is exclusionary, not inclusive.
    - Pessoa January 7, 2022 (12:50 pm)
      
      I doubt motorists have any objection to reasonable traffic modifications to accommodate non-motorists. But I also doubt this spirit of reasonableness and flexibility extends to the ideologues other side of this debate.
- zark00 January 6, 2022 (5:15 pm)
  
  “Keep Moving Streets are open for people walking, rolling, biking, and playing and closed to pass through traffic.”Street is closed to auto traffic except for the privileged few who live on them. Private drive on everyone else’s dime.

Rob January 6, 2022 (8:06 am)

Now that this looks like the street on alki will remain closed it’s a perfect spot to organize some street hockey tournaments. 5 on 5 would great.

Emm January 6, 2022 (8:43 am)

I think residents on the other side of Alki to Harbor Ave. would be very happy to have stay healthy streets expanded to their area. What is unhealthy? Dangerous traffic every night, gang gatherings, illegal racing and limited police enforcement. There’s no money for to solve that but the wealthy side of Alki point gets peace and quiet in the name of health. Go figure.

neighbor January 6, 2022 (1:36 pm)

The difference is that the rest of Alki/Harbor Ave is an arterial. The arterial goes from Harbor to Alki to 63rd to Beach Drive. This section that’s been designated as a Stay Healthy Street is *not* an arterial and should never have had through traffic anyway.

My two cents January 6, 2022 (9:40 am)

Along The Constellation side it seems that there is a constant flow of cars that are not going to their home, not visiting people. Not as much obviously as before but seems a half-way measure. I advocate keeping the road open and set aside a walk and bike area. Pragmatically helps a little for everyone.

Cindy January 6, 2022 (9:44 am)

We will continue to drive thru and park, mom loves to see the water, is disabled with handicap plague on her car, I expect residents to move out of the way, be civil ( which historically have not been yelling at her to not be on their private street)it’s clear how this wealthy white area see this win, Hope tax assessor revisits their property taxes, and sock it to themim ashamed of this city in using resources for this stupid idea when there is such a high need in critical areas within the community

MG January 6, 2022 (9:46 am)

The survey does not ask the right questions and they are forcing this on the people. Stupid program and the money would be better spent on the RV’ers on the streets.

Ookla the Mok January 6, 2022 (10:05 am)

Curious why anyone really cares that it is “closed.” It is a residential side street. It being open does nothing to move traffic through the area any more quickly. Seems to me that this has more to do with how any effort to calm traffic causes an unhinged reaction by people who have to drive door to door everywhere they go. Also, it never has been closed. I go to Cactus and sit in the bar once a week. In addition to watching hundreds of the selfish, entitled drivers blow through the stop sign at 63rd and Alki, I see almost just as many cars turning onto the supposedly closed portion of Alki.

West Seattle Resident January 6, 2022 (10:06 am)

I can’t believe they wasted $2M of Covid relief funds on stay healthy streets. This is a program manger in SDOT sitting around looking for ways they can build their park utopia without providing actual transportation solutions the city needs. Focus on fixing the bridge, would $2M accelerate that timeline at all? That would have a larger impact on Covid by not cramming people into unsafe buses to get to work.

Rocky Bullwinkle January 6, 2022 (10:11 am)

I hope SDOT keeps the street as it currently is: minimal to nil car traffic. Its a very pleasant walk for anyone who enjoys a wide open boulevard of sorts… albeit a short one. I don’t miss all the cars parked on the water side of the street with teens smoking weed and blocking the sidewalk. And I dont miss being limited to walking on the narrow sidewalk.

Ivan Weiss January 6, 2022 (11:14 am)

I remain wary of any and all self-selected polls.

Roddy January 6, 2022 (11:15 am)

The money would be better spent on proper sidewalks everywhere, along with proper bike lanes and added safe pedestrian crossings. Originally I was in favor of the street closings but I’ve come to agree that, at least in the case of Alki/Beach Drive, it is mostly of benefit to those wealthy residents. The solutions to racing cars, unruly partying, etc. are complex, but this is decidedly NOT the best one.

WW January 6, 2022 (1:19 pm)

It mostly benefits those non-vehicle operators who actually use the street. It’s not about wealth.

1994 January 6, 2022 (11:18 am)

The SDOT should use the same idea they use on Lake WA Blvd which is the Bicycle Sunday closure on certain Sundays during the warmer weather months. The street should not be ‘closed’ for traffic. The SDOT says the streets are not ‘closed’ but that is what the signs say in plain English.

Chris K January 6, 2022 (11:25 am)

I would love for them to close more streets. We need to take our city back from the cagers.

Mellow Kitty January 6, 2022 (12:49 pm)

Show of hands – which of you actually took the survey to have your voice heard? ✋

newnative January 6, 2022 (2:16 pm)

I did.
JC January 6, 2022 (11:31 pm)

I absolutely did. I think these closures are ridiculous. Great for the wealthy locals and young childless that can bike everywhere, but when you have 2 little kids and don’t live in a $2m home a block away, you need to drive to access the park. Right of way to the pedestrians that have a wide sidewalk dedicated to them? What are they thinking?
- Reed January 7, 2022 (6:57 am)
  
  BS. I take my kids to Constellation via bike to beach comb. Stop making by excuses.
  - Pessoa January 7, 2022 (3:33 pm)
    
    Are you everyone else, Reed? Why do you insist others experience the beach as you do? This must be that new brand of authoritarian liberalism which bears little resemblance to its former self.
  - Kathy January 8, 2022 (9:57 am)
    
    Chidren under 5 ride free on the KC Metro buses. The 50 bus stops within a block of the Alki Stay Healthy Street. The Water Taxi shuttle is free for everybody and stops there too. Cheaper than driving your car.

Sunflower January 6, 2022 (12:58 pm)

According to SDOT a woman can be kinda pregnant. Then they will put out a poll to back up their opinion. I’m just glad I’m not the only one who doesn’t like this idea. Also this has nothing to do with wealth. These closed but not closed streets are in several neighborhoods of all socioeconomic backgrounds.

Al King January 6, 2022 (1:03 pm)

Jay. I completely understand. Residents and their families and friends can and do come and go at will. It’s the idea that trying to limit “others” from doing the same thing that is wrong. Close to ALL or close to NONE.

StopCuttingDownTrees January 6, 2022 (1:12 pm)

As far as I’m concerned, the stretch along Alki is wide open and the SHS street designation does not exist. I drive through there almost daily and park most of the time. I haven’t seen even one person walking in middle of the street in several weeks. It’s beyond time for the city to remove the signs and give the People our streets back.

WW January 6, 2022 (1:17 pm)

The street as it was was very unsafe for non-vehicle users the way it was prior to Covid. Unfortunately, the survey did not ask the questions in a way that would capture that sentiment. The city needs to spend real money to make sure these highly used parks are safe.

zark00 January 6, 2022 (5:20 pm)

@WW – very very wrong. One of the safest streets for peds in West Seattle prior to the Stay Moving / Stay Healthy initiative. Why just make stuff up that’s so easy to check?
- ⚄ January 6, 2022 (7:19 pm)
  
  Hmm, wonder why before Beach Drive was restricted l would spend so much time walking in the street and watching out for cars, motorcyclists, and bicyclists because the sidewalk on the waterside is too narrow for more than two people and if a couple is coming towards you, l would usually have to step off the curb and go around parked cars because the oncoming pair doesn’t know to move to the right and go single file, not to mention the groups of people who hang out and block the sidewalk entirely. Didn’t make for a safe and leisurely walk, more like dodge ball. Much more enjoyable to visit now.
  - Pessoa January 7, 2022 (8:27 am)
    
    You are arguing that I, and others who like to tool around the point on occasion, must give it all up to accommodate you? If you don’t want to share, there is an extensive bike and pedestrian path just around the corner waiting for you.
    - ⚄ January 7, 2022 (11:52 am)
      
      A wider walking path is needed along Beach Drive. Closing the street may not be the best answer, but I support a solution to the narrow width of the sidewalk. I, like you and many others, want to be able to enjoy that stretch of road whether on foot or by car.
- WW January 7, 2022 (2:50 pm)
  
  It wasn’t safe at all prior to the Safe Moving initiative. Definitely one of the most dangerous streets/parks to visit because cars are allowed ro run amok and it’s the very reason car clubs would come from all over the city to expound this loophole. They are allowed to bully and intimidate the community.
  - zark00 January 13, 2022 (1:22 pm)
    
    @ WW – total and complete lie. I lived there for years. Traffic is extremely light, the car club folks are really nice and use the extra wide street and view – they also are permitted – duh! There have been – let’s count em! – ZERO issues with car clubs on beach – none, not a one, zero, zilch, nothing – find one – we’ll all wait for you go google stuff pointlessly.You can make stuff up as much as you want, doesn’t make it true. The sidewalk is 100% fine, it’s a standard sidewalk. Cars do not ‘run amok’ in any way whatsoever. There are virtually no accidents on that stretch of road, and zero fatality accidents ever.Honestly, you sound really clueless.

Mark Schletty January 6, 2022 (2:02 pm)

The survey had no option for reopening the street, an option obviously wanted by a large number of people. The only way you could express that opinion was to write it in in the areas that allowed comments. Both my wife and I did that. I have no idea how many others also did it because SDOT chose to not even mention it. Hopefully when Zimbabwe is gone the new head of SDOT will take a more rational all inclusive approach to traffic flow and the needs of the many.

newnative January 6, 2022 (2:14 pm)

As someone who walks/runs on Alki, including that stretch of Beach Drive, I don’t think this is worth the $$. It’s not closed, it’s not policed but there is the illusion that it’s intended for socially distanced pedestrians and cyclists. So confused motorists drive around the signs, walkers and runners are harassed by cars in the street. what’s the point?

sb2780 January 6, 2022 (3:11 pm)

Exactly. It actually makes it more dangerous for bikers and pedestrians because they think the street is closed to car traffic – but it’s not. I’ve witnessed way more car dodging and zig-zagging in the middle of the street in the last couple months
Rhonda January 6, 2022 (3:54 pm)

Cars in the street……what an odd concept.
Wseattleite January 6, 2022 (4:39 pm)

Quite correct. Encouraging people to play in the same street that cars are using defies any logical thinking.
Kathy January 8, 2022 (10:15 am)

NEWNATIVE since you call yourself “NEW” maybe you are not aware that cut through traffic has dropped substantially since this short section of the road was declared a Stay Health Street. The Alki neighborhood draws car traffic from all over the city and beyond. This causes excessive air and noise pollution and dangers for people (both neighbors and visitors) just trying to cross the street to get to the beach. Setting aside an area of the residential street that is closed to through traffic gives people walking a place to escape from the crazy noise and unsafe driving, breathe fresh air and feel safe while enjoying the park and the views.

Pessoa January 6, 2022 (3:34 pm)

No, it’s not enough to have an extensive bike and pedestrian path that runs from the lighthouse to the West Seattle Freeway, a public street for those who like to drive around the point with unobstructed views of the water and lighthouse, maybe even park – gasp! – must also be surrendered. Let me take a wild, crazy guess about the political affiliation of these authoritarians who want to dictate how I should enjoy this section of beach.

Al King January 6, 2022 (4:24 pm)

Newnative. As a daily walker on Alki I’ve never had an issue with cars as I always use the sidewalk-as pedestrians are supposed to do. As far as covid-very easy-just pulled up my mask or looked and if no cars stepped out for a moment to pass. Easy.

Kathy January 8, 2022 (10:27 am)

Al King, nice to hear your anecdotal experience that you are apparently not physically challenged to negotiate the curbs!

zark00 January 6, 2022 (5:26 pm)

SDOT is refusing to release the complete results of the multiple survey’s they have done. Herbold is unable to get the results to share. They are reporting the responses from only the people who claim to regularly use, or live on, a Stay Healthy / Keep Moving street.That’s SDOT’s disclaimer for why they can’t share the full results – the opinion of people who claim to use, or live on, the streets should be prioritized. They’re ‘sharing’ the survey results for Alki from residents who won the tax-subsidized private street lottery. Surprise surprise – they like their private street and would like to keep it. The close streets reduce accessibility to property. Reduction in accessibility reduces the value of a property. Reduction in property value should be reflected in your property tax. Every resident of West Seattle should file a challenge to their property tax for reduced access from the bridge and the stay deadly streets.

Reality Chick January 6, 2022 (5:43 pm)

I have gone through the adopted Seattle Pedestrian Master Plan and its many implementation plans and progress reports and cannot find where SDOT established a way to close streets on a permanent basis for these purposes (link below). Granted, I may have missed where they did this beyond an emergency non-permanent basis (which is why Alki Point was closed), so would like to have the City point out where and which streets are identified as candidates and the transparent public process by which they will establish their permanent change in status. Street closures are a big deal, so it really is on the City to show how, where, and why it is doing so. I am all for a wholly safe transportation system but not at the expense of equity and transparency. Show us your work, SDOT! https://www.seattle.gov/transportation/document-library/citywide-plans/modal-plans/pedestrian-master-plan

Plf January 6, 2022 (6:55 pm)

Is the city required to do a formal evaluation on impact on ADA citizens that changes like this might have?I’ve asked before from the citybut no response

Ted January 6, 2022 (6:48 pm)

I was one of the folks who posted on the survey to NOT close the streetPlenty of people appear to also agree with that stanceGood riddance to Sam Zimbabwe for his making SDOT anti automobile.

WW January 7, 2022 (2:46 pm)

He was pro-automobile. Hopefully the next person will stand with safety not car bullying.
- Kathy January 8, 2022 (10:18 am)
  
  You think Harrell will put in someone who is less pro-automobile than Zimbabwe? Good luck to us all with that.

Kyle January 6, 2022 (8:22 pm)

I took the survey, but the amount of bias in the questions was a joke. Yes I feel safe walking the sidewalk now, but I felt safe when it was open to cars too. Conveniently that option was left off the survey. This is a round about way for homeowners to move car club groups off the street on spring and summer weekends.

John grumpy January 6, 2022 (8:26 pm)

Grumble grumble, I wanna drive my car where ever I want! Why should we have a beautiful costal street to walk leisurely down! This is America! We drive car! We no like Walky walky less traffic! We want big loud fast drink people burning rubber down along the beach, residents in alki no get to have nice promenade ! Standard of livi g dependent on accumulating moneys and driving car! Nobody take away my freedom to be grumpy grumbles, no fun ba humbug! Me need something to be grouchy and self righteous about! Me so angry at everything and me white and privileged!

Why January 6, 2022 (8:28 pm)

Maybe I missed something, but how does configuring or re-configuring Alki Avenue contribute to Covid relief? Aren’t Covid relief funds supposed to be spent on Covid relief?

WSB January 6, 2022 (8:37 pm)

The whole point of SHS was to enable people to engage in distanced walking/rolling/riding/etc. That’s the connection. Here’s the original explanation:
https://sdotblog.seattle.gov/2020/04/16/announcing-stay-healthy-streets/

Alki Local January 6, 2022 (8:31 pm)

Designated ADA parking spaces were added on the water side of Beach Drive shortly after becoming a Keep Moving/Stay Healthy street.

Lura Ercolano January 7, 2022 (8:51 am)

The survey options were poor. My experience is that it is an odd little area with an unusually, unnecessarily wide street and an unusually narrow sidewalk supporting a great variety of group activities where people naturally gather to pause, hang out, and talk. The pausing and talking happens with parents pushing strollers. It happens with groups of cyclists stopping in the street to discuss and plan their ride. And it happens with car enthusiasts who visit the park, play music and socialize. Pre-pandemic, the parking was often filled by school busses for field trips to the beach. Sure – widen the sidewalk so you can have two strollers, or space to for a busload of elementary students to spill out, even space for divers to set up their gear. Add speed bumps or mid-street landscaping features to slow cars if needed. But don’t create a bike thru-way at the cost of multiple uses of the park/street.

Ex-Westwood Resident January 7, 2022 (2:18 pm)

If the city wants to keep this a “Stay Healthy/Keep Moving Street” and the residents that live along it are in favor of it, then the designation/ownership of the street of the street MUST change.

Designate the street as a “Private Road” this means that the city is NO LONGER responsible to the maintenance of the street. The homeowners that live on the street become responsible for it.

WW January 7, 2022 (2:44 pm)

There is no consideration of making it a private road. Actually, it’s the opposite. The idea is to open the street up for more accessibility. Not just for cars to race.

Lori January 8, 2022 (6:53 am)

Please just give us back our roads. The sidewalks are fine. The cars parking on both sides are fine. How much has been spent studying this already with no option of just reopening the road? These dollars could be spent in SO many other more pressing ways to make our community better. Let’s use the COVID dollars to support local businesses hurt by COVID’s long reign. Let’s abate graffiti. Let’s find some new strategies for our homeless populations. It feels like this pet project will happen in spite of common sense opposition.

Sorry, comment time is over.