AS-IT-HAPPENED COVERAGE: Sound Transit’s 2nd West Seattle light-rail ‘neighborhood forum’

| Sound Transit | Transportation | West Seattle news

9:13 AM: Not here at the Seattle Lutheran High School gym (4100 SW Genesee) yet? More than 50 people are, as the Sound Transit “neighborhood forum” for West Seattle light rail routing/station locations begins. This is in “open house” – circulate and look at boards, maps, etc. – mode until at least 9:30, followed by a presentation, followed by small-group conversation starting just before 10, so you have time to get here. (The format is detailed here.) Here’s our most-recent coverage, with the new ST-released “visualizations” of what some of the route/station options might look like. Updates to come!

9:32 AM: The presentation’s starting, projected on the north wall. The microphone is given first to Joe McDermott, County Councilmember and Sound Transit board member, who jokes about the ease of the commute (on a Saturday morning) and thanks everyone for turning out. He’s followed by project director Cathal Ridge providing some project backstory and timeline, starting with the planning phase (now) and moving to construction starting in 2025 to open the Stadium-SODO-West Seattle extension in 2030. (Rough count update, 100+ people here now.)

Ridge reiterates that they’re not asking people to pick their final preferred alternative today, but to help “narrow” the list down. One more level of review is ahead before that preferred alternative is finalized next April, to move into full environmental study.

Ridge notes that this is the first time “cost assessment” has entered the process (as we reported last Wednesday) – focused on “limited conceptual design” (5%, compared to 60% when they get to an actual project budget) based on “consistent methodology” including 2017 dollars. In the final level of review, Level 3, they will provide costs for “end-to-end alternatives,” compared to the current comparative segment-by-segment analysis, and those, Ridge explains, “will facilitate comparison to ST3 budget” (as approved by voters).

9:47 AM: He’s followed by Stephen Mak, ST’s West Seattle-specific planner, recapping the five West Seattle segment alternatives currently under discussion, including the “representative project” originally proposed. After going briefly over the route/station maps for the alternatives, Mak hits the info-dense tables of evaluation points that were originally presented at the Stakeholder Advisory Group meeting Wednesday (and included in our coverage – you can also see that slide deck here – but be aware that latter link includes the evaluation of all West Seattle to Ballard segments; WS is last). The highlights include the same takeaway points that ST chose to highlight, such as “visual effects” – where “low” and “high” guideways are mentioned, by the way, we asked for clarification on Wednesday, and “low” means up to 60′, while “high” means up to 160′. If you want to cut to the bare-bones summary, this is the page:

(That’s on page 106 of the presentation from Wednesday; we will ask on Monday for the WS-only deck that’s being used today.)

10:09 AM: Mak is followed by ST station planner Sloan Dawson, who talks about the by-invitation-only daylong station “charrettes” that were held in July, one for Delridge, one for Junction and Avalon. (We covered a walking tour that was part of the latter.) Someone in the crowd quickly spots the acronym TOD and asks for an explanation (answer: Transit Oriented Development). Here are the slides he showed:

10:20 AM: Presentation’s ending. That means table-by-table conversations will begin. ST has a note-taker assigned to each table.

It’s announced that City Councilmember Lisa Herbold is here. Someone asks if the slides can be made available online – the facilitator says yes. (Again, as noted above, the same slides were in the Wednesday presentations, but we’ll request today’s deck on Monday and add it here.) We’re within earshot of one table, whose note-taker/coordinator KaDeena Yerkan is asking people to introduce themselves and to say which station/route segment most interests them. One person in her self-intro says she’s interested in whatever would speed up the process. ST, meantime, tells us that the signup forms at last check showed 130 people are (or have been) here. The boards with post-it note options are still up for commenting on the other side of the room, too.

10:50 AM: Conversation continues and is scheduled to go until about 11:30 – soon shifting to “part 2, (to) share input for each sub-segment.” One participant at the table within our earshot asks what happens if the Port is not happy about a favored route – does it have a veto?The coordinator’s not sure. Meantime, all this feedback is to be summarized and provided to the decisionmakers further up the line – the Stakeholder Advisory Group will meet September 26th to make its recommendations for what to advance to the third and final review level; the Elected Leadership Group then considers those recommendations (but is not bound by them) on October 5th. (The public is welcome at all of those meetings but if you go, take note that there’s no public-comment period at the SAG meetings; there IS, at the ELG meetings. SAG meetings are not recorded on video; Seattle Channel does record the SAG meetings, which are also technically City Council meetings because the ELG has a quorum of city councilmembers.)

11:24 AM: Still talking, as the prescheduled adjournment time of 11:30 am nears, though a couple of the table groups are breaking up. We’re going to go look around at easels etc. and will add a few images later. (Update: Added below)

If you couldn’t be here, you still have a way to get involved in this round – as we reported Friday, ST has an “online open house” now under way until September 23rd, with info and comment opportunities. Find it here.

BJG September 8, 2018 (2:33 pm)

Thanks, TR. I was there and saw you furiously working to keep the rest of WS Blog readers up to the minute on this event. Don’t know how you do it, but am always grateful. Accurate as always!

HW September 8, 2018 (5:54 pm)

Thank you for your continuing coverage! During the public comments, what was the consensus? Were there more people who favored a specific plan?

WSB September 8, 2018 (6:18 pm)

No way to say the former as the attendees were grouped into tables of 10 and it did not end with a “everybody reports back” … I still have some pix of butcher-paper etc. comments to add but that’s just from a few tables- some notetakers didn’t use the butcher-paper/easel method – TR

TiredofGovernmentGreed September 9, 2018 (6:36 am)

This neighborhood forum was a much better effort by Sound Transit than the one sponsored in May. The agenda had an opening presentation of all the information ST would share, delivered by subject matter experts, and was better focused on issues that concern the community. Still, some disappointment in the evaluation of Pigeon Point 2-tunnel alternative:- This most expensive of the 5 options has been touted as the alternative that has the least impact to neighborhoods, yet the ST evaluation matrix shows that just as many or more residential units would be “displaced” as any of the other alternatives. ST representatives still will not answer direct questions about ST policy for property condemnations; a critical point for ST to explain as every one of the 5 alternatives will involve destruction of homes in the Delridge neighborhood, apparently up to 145 residential units. Furthermore, the residential unit displacement numbers of each alternative were not pointed out by ST presenters Saturday morning even though ST clearly knows the numbers and are speaking to a residential group who would hold that criteria as a high consideration.- The cost estimates only show a projected expense above the voter-approved base route, but ST will not discuss what the cost of the base route is so we only see the incremental cost and not the total cost of each alternative. With huge cost overruns on Lynnwood, Federal Way, and Bellevue lines already, ST should be explaining how they are able to afford the West Seattle line and provide improved cost management.- The incremental costs looked like a simple tunnel equals $500M and underground station equals $200M for all of the alternatives that involved tunnels and stations. Yet the Pigeon Point alternative included a number of engineering (unstable soil, wide river crossing, power lines, busy railroad yard) and environmental issues (bisecting the eastside greenbelt, Eagle and Blue Herron nesting areas) that would seem to vastly increase the cost even more than the prospective $1.2B extra cost. Not to mention causing much more extensive time delays beyond 2030 than the other alternatives show.Generally, there is always a tone from ST that impact to business (e.g., reduction of access to Nucor steel) is a higher priority to ST than impact to people who have homes in their Delridge and Pigeon Point neighborhoods. Unfortunately, it seems like those business voices dominate the “Stakeholder” group whose opinions are more valued in this process than those expressed at neighborhood forums that “provide input” or “weigh in.”

Andy September 9, 2018 (8:04 am)

Please just do it with Tunnels. That is what they use in NYC and it works great. I dread the idea of these big elevated train tracks cluttering up the neighborhood. Construction should be easier with less disruption. I guess they cost more but in 50-100 years cost is not the issue.

Norm September 9, 2018 (9:35 pm)

I am not convinced that we need ST in West Seattle. Last time it was specifically voted on , it was turned down by the voters and only passed when lumped together with other routes. West Seattle commuters are used to the time it takes to travel downtown. The buses serve us well. I do not see a compelling reason to get off the bus. Buses do not have an unattractive cement footprint which we now see at the Northgate Mall. The time saved by Sound Transit rail is not worth it in terms of the amount of money spent on a project that may not be to pay for itself in the end in my humble opinion. I would like to see a direct vote on the West Seattle project by the people of West Seattle before we spend so much money to upstage the buses. I think ST needs to listen to each community that it serves and give heed to the voiced of the people. Even after it has been given a blank check to go forward. Government agencies can get so big and powerful that they are no longer accountable to the people and they become a law unto themselves, and make neighborhood presentations with their paid lobbyists. It would be really nice to have someone paid by ST to give a strong studied dissent to going forward as planned; someone who represents the West Seattle dissenters in the original vote. Checks and balances are the constitutional way and healthy civic way to restrain the natural corruption of power.

CAM September 9, 2018 (10:44 pm)

According to this map from a Seattle Times article after the vote, over 60% of people in West Seattle voted in favor of the expansion of light rail into West Seattle.

Greystreet September 10, 2018 (8:08 am)

Norm, while I appreciate your comment, I completely disagree with “West Seattle commuters are used to the time it takes to travel downtown. The buses serve us well. I do not see a compelling reason to get off the bus. Buses do not have an unattractive cement footprint which we now see at the Northgate Mall” Why should we have to be “used to the time it takes” when there is an option that will cut that time? Time spent commuting means time spent sitting for most people, which also adds to sedentary lifestyles, adds to idling cars which pollute the atmosphere and pulls away from people’s free time. I don’t have to commute downtown anymore and I’m still 100% for light rail to WS, unfortunately it won’t happen for another 20 years so I’m not holding my breath.

BjG September 10, 2018 (9:59 am)

Our group discussed the possible cost savings of dropping a station and re-siting one between 35th and California. Rail stations aren’t bus stops and are expensive and intrusive. Big city stations such as DC’s Metro run miles between, not blocks. The more stops, the slower the train will run. Cost savings might allow for tunnel contruction. It is expected, according to ST3, that bus routes will be delivering passengers to stations wherever they are.

expat September 10, 2018 (10:18 am)

BJG, to be fair, some stops in NYC are within two blocks of each other! We must also, here in Seattle, be cognizant of all the hills. As for whether or not buses will take people to the stations… If the stations are carefully situated you will be surprised how many people will just walk. West Seattle, particularly California junction, is starting (starting!) to almost feel dense.

BJG September 10, 2018 (3:53 pm)

We saw density from California to the Triangle. In numbered street terms, that is 43rd to 37th or 6 short blocks. Divided (which might not be ideal) would mean 40th would bisect the growth areas. I recall that the Angle Lake station is about a block long between entrances. Recall that our Urban Villages don’t support parking because we’re all supposed to be able to hike a good distance to buses. I assume light rail is the same.

TiredofGovernmentGreed September 10, 2018 (6:44 pm)

The common assumption is that light rail in West Seattle will solve our transportation problems, or at least reduce them. However, Sound Transit has shown no facts or data on what rider demand is anticipated in the year 2030 and how these trains will provide sufficient capacity to cover that demand. It feels like we are rushing to spend billions of dollars, and destroy over 100 homes in the process, for a solution that will be inadequate years before it ever runs the first train.

CAM September 10, 2018 (11:43 pm)

We should absolutely build a system with capacity for the future population. That is why I find it so confusing/maddening when people throw out ideas like eliminating a station or attempting to use buses to meet the demand as it continues to increase. 12 years from now when the population is larger and we have no light rail or an inadequate system we can’t suddenly rewind the clock to go back and do it right. Just like now when looking back on all the opportunities to improve public transit that Seattle had in the past and just threw away because it would cost too much, destroy the character of the neighborhood, cause traffic disruptions while it’s being built, etc.