Triangle Task Force mulls its mission, with Fauntleroy-Vashon-Southworth route public meetings ahead this week

By Tracy Record
West Seattle Blog editor

Is there really anything the Triangle Route Improvement Task Force can do to improve the route?

One task-force member asked that question about midway through the task force’s most-recent meeting at Fauntleroy Church, wondering aloud, “What is (Washington State) Ferries hoping to get out of us continuing to meet – because maybe we’re done.”

There was no direct answer for that but the indirect answers could be heard throughout the meeting, including toward the end, when time was opened for public comment, and several of the Vashon residents in attendance stood up.

While WSF changed its Fauntleroy terminal processing procedures in mid-June, hoping to get drivers through the tollbooths more quickly, frustrated Vashon residents have been pointing out that many boats are still leaving with empty spaces – and not because there are no vehicles left to load.

WSF says a major part of the problem is that the Fauntleroy dock holds 80 waiting cars, but the route is running 120-vehicle-capacity boats. Expanding the dock, in the midst of a single-family-residential zone, has long been considered to be out of the question.

Riders contend that problem could be transcended somewhat if WSF had portable scanning equipment that could be used by terminal staffers, so that those with tickets didn’t have to stop at the booth to be scanned.

But we’re getting ahead of ourselves. First, we should note that WSF plans two community meetings this coming week – the one on Vashon, Wednesday night, is likely to be particularly contentious. (Times and locations are at the bottom of this page.) Now – here’s how last Thursday’s task-force meeting unfolded:

First, here’s the slide deck from the meeting:

If you can’t see it embedded above, here it is in PDF.

PRESENTATION: WSF’s operations director Greg Faust reviewed the goals such as “increase throughput at tollbooths during 3-6 pm weekday peak.” He said “it’s getting a little better as the crews down there are getting used to the process.” Processing time: 3.53 redemptions per minute up to 3.57 – “a little bit better but it’s not huge.” How many people are using multi-rides? That data is harder to find than pre-ticketed – a pre-processed ticket doesn’t show up any differently than cash. Fewer multi-rides were processed this summer.

Capacity will continue to increase but unless they can figure out how to get more vehicles on board, they are going to sail without filling the vessels. In the peak period alone, there are 100+ more spaces each day than used.

Destinations – More people are going to Vashon than Southworth, during the 3-6 pm period, but the gap is closing a bit.

Overall observations – they’re filling the dock and the exit lane “pretty effectively. … It seems safer, it seems better.” And because of that, they’re not planning to revert to previous procedures: “It’s hard for any company to go back to something where they know they’re going to lose revenue.”

Faust said that the phone-ticket system is working now – the ticket will be e-mailed to you as a PDF. “We were going to have a print-to-web feature,” but they couldn’t set that up reliably. The PDF still has to be scanned at the booth. Does it work for multi-rides? The reps at the meeting didn’t have the answer. It does allow you to buy tickets and have them e-mailed to someone. It works better if you sign in with an account than if you do it as a guest, he said.

One task force member was surprised to hear the phone ticketing system was working, because there hadn’t been a major announcement. It’s working for drivers and passengers at the toll booth, Faust explained, but if you’re a walk-on, you still need to get a card so you can go through the turnstile – the phone won’t work for that.

While WSF says it has an informational campaign going about pre-purchasing tickets, the task force member voiced concern it’s not reaching many.

Meantime, Faust said another plus of the new system, with everyone stopping at tollbooths, is that they can monitor employees in the ooths, including via video. And he said that employees “are happy with what they’re doing,” and with the input they’ve had into the process.

The data did not take into account any two-boat-schedule time, it was noted. They hope to use some data to “fine-tune” the two-boat schedule, though, because, Faust allowed, it seems to have “some problems.” Another ferry rep said the two-boat schedule was written for a larger and smaller boat – and most recently, when it was used it was carried off with two larger (Issaquah-class) boats.

At that point, one task force member said she left the last meeting baffled as to what was really happening – in-person commenters said it was worse, one member said he’d heard anecdotally that it was better, and the data said it was only incrementally better. “I don’t see the answer yet.” She wondered if the overall problem is just that it takes too long to get anywhere any more. “If I have an appointment on First Hill, it takes me an hour to get there and I live nine minutes away” (in West Seattle).

Another member said “we have data, we have the public, we’re seeing boats leaving full, we’re seeing boats late.” He wondered about the options for exploring two different lanes in two directions -”

A Southworth task-force member noted that when this began, “we were focused on that busy period” – but she rarely drives around any more “because the traffic is so bad now.” She said she’s observed the better use of the dock space. She said that she’s “confused by the response of “this isn’t working and it’s horrible” because “I kind of feel like we’ve lost track a little bit of what we’re supposed to be working on.” She thought they would be looking at the schedule – “that’s what I thought our next step is.”

And another member said he agreed with what everyone else said. “I don’t know how much time we need to spend on this to find out this is all an exercise in futility” – the dock is maxed out, built for 80-car boats (so if) you put 120-car boats on the run,” it’s the proverbial 10 pounds of stuff in a 5 pound bag. “The infrastructure is not there,” he said, “so I don’t know how changing the schedule’s going to” fix anything.

Another member then wondered if finding ways to get people out of single-occupancy vehicles would be part of the solution: “I feel like we’re barely educated (in ways that they could be making) a difference.”

The ensuing discussion had to do with logistics. One member suggested that single-destination sailings aren’t the best way to utilize a too-small dock. But, Faust pointed out, vehicles still have to be sorted for proper loading order to get each destination offloaded in the proper order.

Then came one member’s question: “What is Ferries hoping to get out of us continuing to meet – because maybe we’re done.”

There was no clear answer for that. If they move to scheduling, from operational points, Faust said, they would be dealing with some other WSF administrator, since that’s beyond his jurisdiction.

Another WSF staffer suggested that it’s not up to the ferry service to tell the task-force members what to do – they were convened to suggest what WSF should do. And, he said, an option would be “you don’t think you can do any more, and we’re done.”

Another member said all she feels they can do about the schedule “is conceptualize.”

So suddenly there they were brainstorming their future – might it go beyond the initial commitment to next January?

And then, midway through the meeting’s allotted two and a half hours, they took a break.

Afterward, they got a history lesson – how the route has evolved over the past almost-40 years. As you can see on the slide deck above, starting at page 16, there have been a variety of studies and plans. The history lesson even made a brief stop at the 1992 discussion of a possible Cross-Sound Bridge, which got shouted down by thousands of Vashon residents, among others. So, the ferry system went on to build larger vessels.

In 2006, a long-range draft plan floated the trial balloon of closing Fauntleroy and sending everything downtown. That wasn’t popular on Vashon, either. And then: “The last time we proposed sending vehicle traffic from Southworth to downtown, the city said they didn’t want more traffic to go to Fauntleroy OR downtown.” After other studies, another long-range plan is being scoped now, to look toward 2040; the Legislature expects to see it by January 1st, 2019. (An update on this is expected at the task force’s November meeting.)

Also ahead: The Fauntleroy Terminal Replacement Project, with preliminary engineering and environmental review to start next year. It’s currently set to go out to bid in 2025.

Fauntleroy rep Gary Dawson reminded those who might have forgotten that “every community association in West Seattle” opposed the concept of a larger dock because the West Seattle Bridge is not expanding and West Seattle’s own population already has.

Next section of the meeting was a brief discussion of next week’s public meetings – with Assistant Secretary Amy Scarton, WSF’s leader, to welcome everyone, followed by Faust making a presentation, other information presented about the route’s characteristics and summer ridership, and then public comment.

And then the task-force meeting – which, in the early going, had little public attendance – got to public comment.

Marie from Vashon said that if she gets in her car at 4 and not onto boat until 7, she’s not being counted in the 3-6 pm stats – the data that show things are getting better “is not really true” – Also, she’s not sure what the key performance indicators are – they talk about pushing people through booth but says it should be about getting people from point A to point B. Something should be done on Vashon so that buses can be allowed to pull up and dropped off and allowed to get on boat – her husband says they’ll let cars around and hold bus back and then drop off people but gate dropped and they can’t get on

William of Vashon said he’s glad to hear about the ticket-by-phone system. “Big issue is, ferries up to 124 vehicles and 80-dock spaces, you just need a bigger dock” – yes, Seattle might not want it, but that’s from four mayoral administrations ago – and they just said there are some concerns – “you’re the state of Washington” and should have more leverage, he suggested.

Louise from Vashon said she worked at Boeing for 30 years. “One of the pieces missing here, how much is it costing to let the boats go half full? This is state money and I’d like to see that number.”

Paul from Vashon said the chokepoint is the booth. He suggested that either you take people around the booth (a “bypass lane” that WSF has said is unsafe) or you make it a ticketless selling booth and you put a booth out somewhere in the community or on Fauntleroy, so that people can buy tickets.

Diana said she lives on Vashon, grew up in Southworth, and doesn’t think WSF is fully listening “because I’m hearing things like you can’t use scanners, but we all know that before the scanners went away the boats went full … simple math – you’ve more than halved the throughput of the tollbooths … for the love of God, please mention the scanner issue, we’re trying to tell you about that but we’re not hearing anything about it.”

Naomi from Vashon first chastised WSF for planning the public meetings on Rosh Hashanah, “the holiest day on the Jewish calendar … so people like me can’t go … (it’s) culturally insensitive.” Meantime, she said since the system changed she’s been consistently closed off from the 6:40 pm boat. She finds herself behind somebody “who’s buying a ticket with quarters or asking questions and I sit there and I cry because my boat has taken off. I want my bypass lane back – I have my ticket … let me get on my boat.”

The next person said that if the scanners don’t work – fix or replace them!

After him, Rex from Southworth said that bus logistics need to be improved too, and Vashon could use a few more parking lots.

Sara of Vashon asked the task force to stop using the phrase “quick wins,” which has been how the procedures were described even before the changes were implemented – “it wasn’t a win, and it’s really insulting to our intelligence, makes this feel like a charade. All the time you have spent on all these plans, what has it produced? Seems like a wasted effort.”

Lisa from Vashon thanked the task-force members for their work and suggested they keep at it – “I would encourage you, if you are thinking about not continuing to go on … I want to encourage you. There is more work to be done.”

With that, the task force’s WSF point person, Hadley Rodero, said the group would meet again, likely November 9th, but in the meantime, urged everyone interested in the Triangle Route issues to go to one of next week’s meetings:

Vashon Public Meeting
Wednesday, Sept. 20, 7-9 p.m.
Vashon High School Cafeteria
9600 SW 204th St, Vashon

Southworth Public Meeting
Thursday, Sept. 21, 7-9 p.m.
John Sedgwick Junior High School Commons
8995 SE Sedgwick Rd, Port Orchard

6 Replies to "Triangle Task Force mulls its mission, with Fauntleroy-Vashon-Southworth route public meetings ahead this week"

  • 1994 September 17, 2017 (8:41 pm)

    The history lesson even made a brief stop at the 1992 discussion of a possible Cross-Sound Bridge, which got shouted down by thousands of Vashon residents, among others. So, the ferry system went on to build larger vessels.”

    Maybe it is time to reconsider the Cross-Sound Bridge as the ferry solution seems unsuccessful to many, on both sides of the water…..


  • 1994 September 17, 2017 (8:49 pm)

    Maury to Des Moines looks to be the shortest stretch for a bridge with closest connections to I-5

  • K'lo September 17, 2017 (9:17 pm)

    Mr. Faust’s claim that the employees are happy with the changes are pure bunk! The terminal employees absolutely despise the new “stop at the booth” procedures.

  • Jon Wright September 17, 2017 (10:28 pm)

    I think the frustrating thing is WSF’s total inability/unwillingness to think out of the box.

    • * What Paul said (put the ticket-selling booth somewhere else in the community)
    • * What Naomi said (always have a bypass lane)
    • * What the person after Naomi said (fix the handheld scanners)
    • * What if they eliminated the ticket booths entirely and sold/collected tickets on the boat?
    • * What if they fixed the schedule to give them enough dwell time to load a 120-car boat?

    Why is any of that so difficult to implement? Any one of those ideas would likely be a big improvement! Instead they are focusing on increasing the rate of ticket booth redemptions from 3.53 per minute to 3.57. Aye yi yi, some improvement!

  • WS Taxpayer September 18, 2017 (5:54 am)

    The state of washington has no issues with sending you a bill for a $2.00 jaunt across a bridge.  Why not employ the same technology when you pull onto & off of a ferry?  On at Fauntleroy, off at Vashon ~ $20 during peak, off at Southworth, $22…or something.  This shouldnt be so hard to maximize thruput!

    Ability to have an account, easliy pay, simple database logic and the ability to implement surge pricing for peak hours, large vehicles, discounts for residents, elderly, disabled,  and the like…

    Or have an app on your phone a-la starbucks…pull up, scan and go…don’t even need a person for that…

  • ArborHeightsRes September 18, 2017 (7:19 pm)

    I agree with having the Good to Go system set up on the ferries. There should be a flat rate charged based upon single car (or truck) with 1 driver. The driver of the car would be responsible for collecting from the other car occupants if they are non-transit van carpool. The fares could raise or fall based upon the time of day, just as the 520 rates do. This would allow everyone to bypass the choke point that is created by the toll booth.

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