West Seattle Crime Watch: Surprised shooting victim

Oakley34 November 30, 2015 (1:59 pm)

Wonder if they will charge him with improper discharge of a firearm? Firing into a fence is itself a reckless act, and not consistent with proper usage. Guy takes a situation that’s somewhere around a 6 and amps it to 11 by brandishing and discharging a weapon. Glad he is ok, but he should look at his own actions here. Cops should too.

WSB November 30, 2015 (2:02 pm)

Good question; following up will be tough – I am still trying to find incident numbers from two unrelated things over the long holiday “weekend,” and this one came out of nowhere, since the county does not even have the online 911 log or Tweets by Beat that at least help us a bit in tracking city incidents. But we’ll of course try. – TR

newnative November 30, 2015 (2:04 pm)

sounds like Yosemite Sam versus Elmer Fudd and a rootin tootin fight. Would hate to be a bystander there.

Wendell November 30, 2015 (2:34 pm)

No-one dies in Toon Town.

zark00 November 30, 2015 (2:41 pm)

More proof that carrying a gun is more dangerous than not; and that guns do not in any way deter, or protect you from, violence. On the contrary, as evidenced by this incident, guns promote violence. This man wouldn’t have been shot had he not owned a gun. Fact.

False November 30, 2015 (3:05 pm)

@zark00: Um, not a “fact.” That’s merely your own interpretation of the circumstances. But please, keep beating your anti-gun drum. Because you know, what works for you should work for everyone. Right?

dsa November 30, 2015 (3:22 pm)

Well it does appear that he would have been better off if he had kept his gun quiet, untouched and out of sight.

zark00 November 30, 2015 (3:41 pm)

LOL @ False

Didn’t read the article at all did you?

‘the man ran to a waiting truck, retrieved a gun and returned fire’
Had the man who was shot not pulled out and fired his weapon, the man who shot him wouldn’t have returned fire – it’s a fact, plain and simple. Further, man 1 was driving away when he was shot – had he simply driven away, without first pulling out his coward-stick, he wouldn’t have been shot. Fact.

Beyond that, he pulled out and fired his coward-stick because a guy was “talking crazy”?! Wow – he should really never leave the house – that’s a dangerously reactive individual with horrible judgement. To anyone who feels they would have reacted similarly, I suggest counseling.

Statistically the presence of a firearm increases the risk of injury by firearm. To argue against that simple fact would be a categorically insane position to take. This is a VERY clear case where the presence of a firearm created firearm violence where otherwise none would have existed. Fact.

Yes, you are correct, what works for me works for everyone. The lack of a gun on my person means there is ZERO chance that same gun will injure me. If it doesn’t exist, I can’t get shot by it, nor can I shoot myself with it – that is a fact, argue it all you like, you will always be incorrect.

Had man 2 flat out shot man 1 without the escalation of the firearm, it would be a different case. This is very clear to any sane person – ask the cops if you like – the presence of a firearm escalated this from someone being afraid to someone being shot – fact.

The proper course of action, according to the police and any sane human being, was to leave the area without escalating the altercation to a shooting. Fact.

Bring on the NRA-fueled misinformation under your fake name.

colleen November 30, 2015 (3:46 pm)

Many thanks to Oakley34 for his/her initial post. I could not agree more.

Anna November 30, 2015 (4:05 pm)

I am baffled how someone could not notice that he had been shot.

2 Much Whine November 30, 2015 (4:06 pm)

How does one get shot twice and not realize it? Apparently getting shot doesn’t hurt much. I think this calls for bigger guns for everyone!

Eric1 November 30, 2015 (4:16 pm)

Perhaps in this case,both of the victims should not have been carrying. Neither stayed at the scene waiting for the authorities. That would tend to indicate that they likely were not legally armed.
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However, it doesn’t mean being armed is ALWAYS a bad idea. There are times when it would be beneficial to be armed. Everybody has to weigh their options. I don’t think the benefits of carrying a weapon outweighs the risks. But I lead a pretty pedestrian life. Other people may have reason to believe otherwise. As long as you have a permit, I try not to judge your reasons. If you don’t have a permit,sentences should be doubled.

Seattlite November 30, 2015 (4:22 pm)

“…stupid is as stupid does… Both the victim and suspect made stupid decisions. Whether their guns were legal or illegal doesn’t change the fact that both of them are stupid. Lots of stupid people have illegal guns and lots of stupid people own legal guns. Maybe a criteria for owning/licensing a gun should be a stupid test.

smokeycretin9 November 30, 2015 (4:22 pm)

soooooo….this man is numb from the waist down or is something else amiss?
People usually know when they’ve been shot. I hear it hurts, a lot.

this neighborhood is falling apart before our very eyes.

False again November 30, 2015 (4:38 pm)

LOL @ Zark (just returning fire, after all): Of course I read the original article. Then I suffered through your own propaganda as best I could.

I’m not condoning the victim’s actions–I should have stated that originally. By firing a warning shot he likely added to the dispute. But your position is (obviously) that he should have no right to carry at all, and that is what I take issue with. It’s just as possible that the agitated man might have drawn his gun to begin with.

People in this state still have a right to carry and protect themselves, though you would wish otherwise. Fact.

MotorMike November 30, 2015 (4:46 pm)

Why didn’t the clerk of 7-11 call 911?

leftovers November 30, 2015 (5:32 pm)

I agree with Zark00 on every level. And the reason this man did not know he had been shot was he was going on pure adrenaline, after he himself used his firearm (in a wreckless way, it would seem).

Paul November 30, 2015 (5:38 pm)

@Zark00 if you don’t drive a car you are 100% likely to not kill some with you car. Let’s outlaw cars and no one will be killed by cars. (Silly right?) I did read the article and your comment. Your comment is simple math which is not compatable with our constitution (State and Federal).

We should really be asking why poorly trained individuals are allowed to carry fire arms, their is room on our books for sane gun legislation (and it starts here at home)

WSB November 30, 2015 (9:24 pm)

I apologize for the loss of comments in this thread that were posted since 5:40 pm (see our note atop the page about technical trouble) – because of a problem in the Forums, the database wound up having to revert to a backup saved at that point – I know there were at least a few comments lost in the process, and they at this point do not appear to be recoverable. We haven’t had this kind of problem in 2 1/2 years but that doesn’t excuse it happening now. Please forgive us. – Tracy

they November 30, 2015 (9:41 pm)

Ok where to start, I’ll keep it simple a gun/guns have been discharged at least two people at the seen are aware of it yet no one contact police from the seen. That pretty much details the people involved. Cars motorcycles power tools ladders guns the list goes on all need an operator. until focus is on the operator these items will continue to hurt and kill. Everything else is about as productive as rocking in a chair…

Mark November 30, 2015 (10:22 pm)

The Victim if he has a carry license should be revoked or suspended based on the information giving. He acted irresponsibly and that is a problem. But I fully support the right to carry legally and responsibly.

wb November 30, 2015 (11:36 pm)

The real victim here is, of course, the fence.

South Delridge Resident December 1, 2015 (12:00 am)

Closest shop to our house and it happened pretty early in the night. It’s bothersome to think in a few years my son will want to bike there with friends and etc.

Bradley December 1, 2015 (12:33 am)

@zark00: “Coward stick”? Are you suggesting that 18 million of your fellow Americans who are licensed to carry a concealed handgun are cowards? Are you insinuating that every police officer, Secret Service member, FBI agent, celebrity bodyguard, and military officer with a sidearm is a coward? Men and women with guns are protecting you while you sleep, sit on the toilet, work, and eat dinner….and even when you call them cowards.

sbre December 1, 2015 (5:05 am)

I know for a fact that it is possible to get shot and not know it. Happened to me at 22 while stationed in Beirut, Lebanon.
I was in a crouching position when the round entered the front of my right thigh, although I heard the ricochets of the bullet as it bounced-off a couple marble walls, it took me a few seconds to finish what I was doing before I tried to stand-up and felt the pain in my leg.
At first I thought I had pulled a muscle until I looked down and saw the hole in my pants and blood seeping out.
In this instance, much of the projectiles velocity was lost due to the one double-paned window it passed through and (guesstimated) 6 ricochets during its path to my leg, however it also lost most of it’s original design and looked more like a raw gold-nugget made of brass.
I sure did feel it when they removed it from my body though!!!

Antizark December 1, 2015 (5:35 am)

Zark you are a troll.
It is legal to carry a pistol if you have a permit.
It is very clear that if you pull it out and discharge it there will be trouble…all permit holders know that…
If some fool pulls his Pistol out foolishly then that is on that individual not on all permit/carriers…
Following your logic if someone drives dangerously than everyone with a drivers license is reckless and their cars should be taken away…
Or people who can’t afford housing on their own are irresponsible with money and nobody who needs Housing assistance should get it…
Or since crime happens on metro we should shut it down…
Is that really your position? You can’t be selective in application to your theory.

phil dirt December 1, 2015 (5:50 am)

To zark00: I’m not afraid of anything or anybody I can outrun. The problem is, I’m 72 years old and disabled. Therefore, having had experience in this sort of thing, I, too, carry a “coward stick.”

M December 1, 2015 (6:08 am)

It is mere luck someone else wasn’t shot by accident. What if there was a child playing behind that fense?

No reason for guns.

HelperMonkey December 1, 2015 (8:16 am)

At this point it’s clear that all the NRA needs is an IQ test. Seems that would take the guns out of most hands. If you’re too stupid to own a gun, you can’t own a gun. Clearly this guy was too stupid to own a gun. While I’m not glad to hear of another shooting on Delridge, I’m actually pleased as punch this giant moron was hurt as a result of his own idiotic actions (and glad no one else was hurt as a result of his stupid, moronic, utterly irresponsible actions).

Just Sayin' December 1, 2015 (8:31 am)

Yesterday there were also hundreds of other folks who carried guns in West Seattle and did NOT shoot fences or draw on someone just because they were “talking all crazy.”

Sue December 1, 2015 (9:04 am)

While I’ve never been shot before, I would imagine that being in shock could make you not realize it had happened. Many years ago I tripped and flew into a glass door, and my hands went through it. Got up, brushed myself off, and continued running to catch my bus to go to work. It wasn’t until several minutes later that I looked at my watch to check the time that I noticed blood running down my wrists – I had cut myself badly enough to need stitches. Never felt a thing.

zark00 December 1, 2015 (9:37 am)

@ False Again – relax, you don’t have to keep changing your name, I’m not trying to find your other posts.

“But your position is (obviously) that he should have no right to carry at all, and that is what I take issue with.”

I never said this, please explain where this is obvious.
I said this is yet more proof that owning a gun is more dangerous than not – and you took issue with that. It’s just a fact, you argued against an unassailable fact.

You could state that I (obviously) think carrying a weapon in public is stupid (it is) and that your more likely to get more hurt if you have one (you are).

But just chill out! Nobody is trying to take yer guns away – it’s a logistical impossibility to take everyone’s guns away anyway. I thought everyone knew that – how can you be a pro-gun propagandist and not know that? Its common sense, and it’s well documented, there are more guns than people in the US at this point.

So the one thing you say is a “fact” is, in fact, your own paranoid fabrication of the world around you and your own neighbors. Trust me – we’re not all out to get you.
You don’t need a gun. Obviously you can have one, this is America, you can have a tiger if you get the right license – you just don’t need one for “protection”. Especially since, as evidenced here, you’re as likely to be shot as a result of having it as it is to protect you – more likely statistically.

Anyone with a spine would have walked away – only a coward draws a gun to deal with a crazy person yelling. I deal with it almost everyday, and that’s guys yelling “I’m going to kill you all!!!!” – hint – they aren’t going to kill us all – they’re schizophrenic. They also can’t control the weather contrary to their claims. Although I wish they could. I’d order sun.

Robert December 1, 2015 (9:44 am)

just like dogs , you mix a fear-biter with a coyote you get trouble.. neither should have a weapon of any type..I am for the second amendment 100% BUT common sense is lacking in both parties..

Rick December 1, 2015 (10:17 am)

@zark00 are you going to specify the person responding to your 911 call not have a firearm? Well, good on ya then. Hugs and doughnuts.

Rusty December 1, 2015 (12:47 pm)

http://www.komonews.com/news/crime/Family-of-five-victimized-in-armed-home-invasion-robbery-275331431.html

http://q13fox.com/2015/03/19/video-can-you-id-these-suspects-accused-of-shooting-man-during-seattle-home-invasion/

https://westseattleblog.com/2015/04/west-seattle-crime-watch-robbery-investigation-on-22nd-sw/

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2015/10/08/armed-robber-arrested-in-north-seattle/

Just a few examples of why some people choose to own/carry a firearm. That being said, obviously the fellow in this story made a stupid & irresponsible decision, then didn’t notify the police immediately. If he has a CWP he should have it revoked.
It is surprisingly easy to obtain a CWP in Seattle (no interview, just a 2-page form and roughly $50 which I’m guessing covers the cost of the background check).
+1 for wb & paul’s comments :-)

Born on Alki 59 December 1, 2015 (2:35 pm)

Morons, both of them. Unfortunately, there’s no law against being stupid, only natural selection which did not occur this instance. I’m in total agreement with Rusty, Rick and Just Sayin’. For the record, if some deranged, crazy looking guy came running towards me or my family saying he was going to kill us, I would take advantage of any defensive measure available to me. That’s NOT a person to have chit chat with.

Jw December 1, 2015 (4:20 pm)

No guns, no shootings. That simple.
Why does the car argument fail? Because a gun is a tool designed solely for the purpose of killing. A car was designed to get you to work, transport goods, ect, ect. I for one wish they would come take your guns. If your so scared of people take a karate class or something. It’s become obscene.

VofM December 1, 2015 (5:40 pm)

Jw, I love you!

wscommuter December 1, 2015 (5:52 pm)

zark make excellent points. And again – no one is trying to take away your precious guns by pointing out the truth – borne out by gunshot statistics – that carrying a gun makes it more likely that you’ll be shot than if you don’t. If you want to carry a gun, god bless you and all that; that I think you’re stupid to do so doesn’t impede your right to be stupid in carrying one.

jetcitydude December 1, 2015 (6:41 pm)

To answer a previous question asked here by Anna, the only way to not know if you were shot twice is if you are drunk or high.

Bradley December 1, 2015 (8:05 pm)

@wscommuter: there are people who make their entire livings trying to take guns away from the American People. They put on suits, ties, and dresses and spend their entire work days looking for ways to do what Jw wants them to do. I have dealt directly with these people while working in the firearms industry for many years. For you to post that “no one is trying to take away your precious guns” is completely inaccurate. You obviously have no idea what those of us who have fought hard to preserve our/your 2nd Amendment rights have been through in the past 30+ years. Fools with guns will always make headlines, just as fools with keyboards will.

Rusty December 1, 2015 (8:35 pm)

JW –
Do you wish to take my freedom of speech as well? How about my right to assemble and petition the government for redress? How many of my rights exactly would you like to see ‘taken’ from me?
The fallacy of trying to parse the bill of rights and pick out which ones you may not agree with is that they are interdependent.
How does your argument work for the people of Paris – they have pretty strict gun laws there, correct? Chicago, D.C. – seems like there’s a lot of cities / places that prevent law-abiding citizens from being armed, and that doesn’t seem to work out to the no-gun utopia people think it might. But don’t worry, you have plenty in common (only as far as this argument goes) with Mao, Stalin and Hitler – all of who banned private gun ownership.
P.S. – I haven’t owned / been in possession of a firearm since getting out after 6 combat deployments as a line team leader in 2/75. I will, however, continue to defend our constitution, which guarantees us the right to do so.

wscommuter December 1, 2015 (9:59 pm)

Bradley … you make a fair point and I misspoke – you are correct that there are indeed anti-gun zealots who would get rid of all guns if they could. They are small in number, utterly unsuccessful in their feeble efforts, but you are correct – they do exist. In my glib response to the silliness of pro-gun zealots posting here (and I’ll be glib again in including you with those folks), I overlooked the truth that such zealots exist.
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My bad for not remembering that those utterly feckless opponents of all guns fight that battle; my only excuse is that because they have no change of winning, I don’t even remember they are out there.
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But I just laugh at your comments about people trying to take guns away from the “American People”. Let’s be equally accurate and honest here too. There is no chance – zero, nada, none – that guns will ever be banned/taken away. My shotgun (hunting) is safe and so is your arsenal (I’m just guessing here, that you’ve got multiple firearms sitting around at home …)
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Notwithstanding the NRA’s contrived hysteria and all the ammunition hoarding by all the gun nuts so scared of the Obama administration’s “gun grab” (… oh wait … there hasn’t been one …), you and your guns are safe. Any attempt at rational gun laws (i.e., banning armor-piercing ammo or extended magazines) is rabidly fought by you “gun industry” folks. And it works. You guys win every time. Way to go.
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So chill. You get your guns AND your 30 bullet magazines and bullets that penetrate police body armor and assault rifles … hell, if we can’t ban those things, then we’ll never – ever – come after all your handguns and hunting rifles.
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You’re safe. *insert derisive snort*

Jw December 1, 2015 (10:28 pm)

Since I don’t want to be baited into to same ole argument that’s been had time and time again, I will just say this. I am willing to give up my 2nd amendment rights if to only protect 1 person from a gun. The children have had their fun, it’s time to grow up.
-Rusty, just the 2nd one. But I suppose I’ll have to “pry it out of your cold dead hand”.

Rusty December 1, 2015 (11:10 pm)

JW –
I believe you just illustrated the problem – while you are free to give up any of your freedoms, you do not have the right to deprive me of mine. I’m also not sure you read my post – I don’t own a gun (cue Kurt Cobain w/out the irony).
Belittling those who disagree with you instead of addressing the arguments is probably not the best way to persuade anyone (if everyone isn’t already completely set in their views on the subject that is).

Thomas M December 1, 2015 (11:25 pm)

Your rights are your rights to exercise or leave fallow.

These are Constitutional Rights we are talking about here. The rights of your fellow Americans are supposed to be dear to you, and be defended by all.

Do the grabbers here attack the rights of same sex couples to decide who their family will be?

Do the grabbers militate against the right of woemen to control their own reproductive health?

Do the grabbers attack those who chgoose to stand on street corners and give sermons exercising their first amendment rights to free exercise?

Do the grabbers here challenge the right of a muslim woman to wear her hijab on the job at Safeway?

Do the enlightened liberal grabbers propose to outlaw any or all of these things?

Now consider this: If the government really wanted to clean up the problem go after gangbangers with gunbs, felons with guns and drug dealers with guns. Take their toys and do NOT “catch and release”. We could clean up darn near the whole problem pretty fast with existing laws.

Why is nobody asking why the laws are not being enforced? My guess is the prisons are already full. I have owned guns for 52 years without incident. Why single us old honest geezers out when we KNOW who is at the core of the problem.

Cls December 2, 2015 (5:12 am)

I think Zook00 and False don’t need guns, they are killing us with words.

Robert December 2, 2015 (7:40 am)

while all of you anti-gun folks out there in america are screaming about guns, just remember you are not speaking german or japanese because of the GUN BEHIND EVERY BLADE OF GRASS. a quote from general yamashita..

Doug December 2, 2015 (11:14 am)

This is a strange story.

As someone who carries a concealed firearm, it’s not really a good idea to discharge a firearm (even in a relatively safe location such as a fence– tons of caveats apply) to scare off a potential attacker.

If you discharge a firearm in a defensive action, it’s probably a really good idea to notify the police.

If this story is truthful, the guy ‘scared’ off an extremely dangerous attacker, but didn’t tell the police about him so he can attack the next victim.

Lots wrong with this tale.

wscommuter December 2, 2015 (11:46 am)

Thomas W … please do explain which existing laws you believe are not being enforced? You may be right … I’d like to know what you are specifically referring to.
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Because as a moderate (not liberal) gun owner who happens to think some gun laws are necessary (see my previous comment about extended clips, for example), I get irritated by the right-wing myth that gun violence is easily solved by “just enforcing the existing laws.”
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So please do explain which laws you are referring to. I’m listening.

Jw December 2, 2015 (12:07 pm)

Hold on Rusty, let me apologize. My “children” statement was about guns as a whole not the thread or the people within it.
So I guess the question is this… Who’s rights are more important? The person who wants to carry a gun or the person who would like to live in a society free of gun accidents and violence. Is it not my right to walk down the street without being shot or assaulted with a firearm?
Let’s be real, we’re well beyond the point of needing to protect ourselves from said tyranny. They just want your money, and they have cruise missles. You want to protect your freedoms? Where were all the people with their guns protecting me from the patriot act?
You would like to cite Paris? Really???? So your solution is what, open gun stores? How many accidental deaths, shootings, ect do you think they would then have a year? 130? We kill many more than that here with our guns of protection.
We’re like alcoholics with our guns, the’re harming us yet we use some lame excuse to do it anyway. It’s time to get off the sauce guys. I can get along just fine without my 2nd amendment, why can’t you?
So what’s my solution? No more bullets. Time to shut down the ammo factorys, then wait. It may take 100 years but it will run out eventually.

zark00 December 2, 2015 (12:46 pm)

I’m embarrassed for the pro-gun folks that can’t actually read or understand a comment.
Fact is, if this guy didn’t have a gun, he wouldn’t have been shot – period.

Argue that FACT all you like, you will continue to be completely wrong.

The car analogy, as already eviscerated by JW, laughable attempt.
Taking away freedom of speech – dude it’s ILLEGAL to yell fire in a crowded theater – there are limits to our freedoms.
A 30 round mag could definitely be considered reasonable a limit to a freedom.

Notice how NOBODY said they wanted to take people guns away, but the gun nuts just can’t stop thinking, fearing, freaking out about that? That would be, by definition, delusional.

Yeah – I call them coward sticks when they’re used like that. When you feel like your life is in danger without the ability to murder at your fingertips – I call you a coward.
When you feel like someone yelling at you warrants murdering them, I call you a coward.
If the shoe fits.
If you pull out a handgun, and you’re a responsible gun owner, you’re purpose is to kill another human being.
If you think otherwise, reread your manuals, retake your classes, you are wrong.

Guns are NEVER to be used to threaten or intimidate, if you take it out you INTEND TO USE IT. Tell me I’m wrong.

Note also the use of the word “grabbers” – this is an NRA tactic to derail a reasonable conversation about even responsible gun use and make it about the irrational fear of taking away guns.

The ONLY people in this thread to say “they commin fer our guns!” – are the pro gun lobbyists here – what’s that tell you? Paranoia and ignorance rule their arguments. They can’t make a solid, reasonable, case – they must defer to scare tactics, lies, and misappropriation of rights and laws to make some kind of point.

CalgonTakeMeAway December 2, 2015 (2:37 pm)

Meanwhile, in San Bernadino, CA… another mass shooting. Upwards of 14 dead, more wounded. Shameful. Pointless. Tragic. Can’t wait to hear 2016 candidates come out and say that if more people were carrying weapons that the outcome would be different. There shouldn’t be “an outcome” in an incident that should never occur in the first place.

HelperMonkey December 2, 2015 (2:48 pm)

reset the clock! it’s been – 0 – days since your last mass shooting, ‘merica.

mrsMarty December 2, 2015 (3:35 pm)

To SUE…who are you, are you Sue Heck from the TV show “The Middle where you can fall thru a glass door and just get up and keep on running to catch your bus?!?! LOL!

Glad you weren’t hurt to badly.

Comment by Sue — 9:04 am December 1, 2015 #
“While I’ve never been shot before, I would imagine that being in shock could make you not realize it had happened. Many years ago I tripped and flew into a glass door, and my hands went through it. Got up, brushed myself off, and continued running to catch my bus to go to work. It wasn’t until several minutes later that I looked at my watch to check the time that I noticed blood running down my wrists – I had cut myself badly enough to need stitches. Never felt a thing.”

Kathy December 2, 2015 (5:59 pm)

The spelling and grammer [sic] on this thread is [sic] atroshus [sic] ;-)

If you make guns, sell guns, promote guns, carry guns concealed or unconcealed, legally or illegally, I am going to assume (for my own self defense) that you are a criminal with intent to murder or do bodily harm whether or not you plan to use it only to defend yourself. If you are christianly bent, I doubt Jesus would want you packing.

Bradley December 2, 2015 (7:15 pm)

@Kathy: So my wife, myself, my mother and father, and all of my loved ones are licensed to carry firearms concealed (me in 37 states) and you assume we are all criminals. Interesting. After today’s absolutely horrific attack on unarmed civilians at a center for caring for disabled persons, I’ll “assume” that perhaps now you can begin to understand why we’re armed and want to protect ourselves and those around us. Please forgive me for not wanting to die at the hands of violent felons and armed terrorists.

Johnson December 2, 2015 (8:18 pm)

All of this conversation over an incident that didn’t even occur the way the “victim” reported it…FACT!

Rusty December 3, 2015 (9:32 am)

Zark –
Jw had stated he would like to take away people’s guns, FYI. I am not an NRA troll, I’m just a guy who spent 5 years in crappy places dealing with folk who were pretty evil characters. The best way to become a victim is to think ‘Oh, that happens in other places to other people’. I see no issue with people who would like to be able to protect themselves and their loved ones. You are correct about pulling/intent to use firearms though.
There are a lot of improvements we can make – better mental-health care laws, better screening, working on standardizing fingerprint-locks, etc.. Simply trying to keep law-abiding citizens from owning firearms by passing knee-jerk ‘gun-control’ laws doesn’t appear to help anyone but the criminals – all you have to do is look at the statistics from Chicago and D.C. to see that.

Jw December 3, 2015 (4:24 pm)

Yes rusty. I believe if all the guns were gone we all would be safer. I don’t believe it’s reality to think that they, I, or anyone else can actually come take your guns. So I offered a realistic solution, stop the manufacture of ammunition. Then you can keep your guns and your stockpile of ammunition. I’ll wait for it to run out……can they be reloaded sure… Blah blah blah. I’ll wait and 100 years from now we’ll all be better off. What’s knee jerk about gun control laws. We’ve had mass shootings for 20 years now. Obviously what we’re doing isn’t enough. Chicago? D.C.? Really? Surely you can see how thin that argument is. And don’t come back with somethin like “statistics don’t lie”

Rusty December 3, 2015 (8:02 pm)

Jw –
What’s knee-jerk about gun laws are the ones that they pass do almost nothing except momentarily making people feel better. You say “Really?” to my bringing up 2 major cities that have extremely restrictive gun laws, yet 2 of the highest murder rates in the country. I’m not sure why that isn’t germane to the argument. You mention that mass shootings have been happening for around 20 years – I would say longer, but much more prevalent nowadays. What else coincides with that time period? Making it much more difficult to commit people who are a danger to society, that’s what.
Let’s work on solutions that are achievable here – you are never going to get rid of the 2nd Amendment, you’re never going to get rid of ammunition or guns.
Let’s put some money into treating our mentally ill, and make it easier to get them off the streets. I think most people would be in favor of that – as well as improving background checks and mental health checks for gun ownership. Let’s do an interview when people apply for a CWP – let’s work on technology that can work, like fingerprint locks on guns.
Instead of getting all crazy and polarized, let’s work on things that the majority of people would agree with – that’s the way forward, not talking about taking away people’s constitutional rights.
Just sayin’