37 Replies to "West Seattle charter school still planned, despite state Supreme Court's refusal to reconsider no-public-funding ruling"

• Tim November 20, 2015 (6:16 am)

  So charter schools use public money to take a field trip to Olympia to lobby for their interests. I wonder what they would think if public schools took a school day trip using school money to lobby for better public school funding. I am sure they could tack on a few “lessons” to make it educational. Maybe they should camp on the lawn for science lessons, count hours the reps work for math, write persuasive essays. ..they could even bring school technology with them and do those lessons too.
  Kids love field trips. Maybe when the session starts in January?

• Bonnie November 20, 2015 (7:20 am)

  So are they planning on opening this next fall (2016-2017) or are they still planning on opening but eventually opening?

  • WSB November 20, 2015 (7:21 am)

    Bonnie – no change in their plan, currently.

• colleen November 20, 2015 (7:35 am)

  The law is not a “glitch”.

• Many ways to learn - fund them November 20, 2015 (7:48 am)

  Tim…school trips to Olympia should be part of basic education. Experiential learning is one way in which students learn. Not all kids (or teachers) thrive in the old industrial model. Some do. Perhaps providing more options and the funding necessary (like fully funding McCleary) and expanding the definition of basic education would help. Charters could be a part of the solution. It does not need to be a zero-sum game. Let’s create more win-win opportunities for today and the future. And yes, fund field trips to Olympia with interdisciplinary curricula:)

• AJP November 20, 2015 (8:29 am)

  Fully fund the schools. Do NOT give taxpayer funds to private corporations who then profit from those funds.

• Joe Szilagyi November 20, 2015 (9:00 am)

  No public cash to for-profit schools.

• charters are NOT public schools November 20, 2015 (9:16 am)

  It is reprehensible, but not surprising, that these corporate schools will barrel ahead without regard for the law. They are trying to hold the legislature hostage using kids as their only bargaining chip.

  They may open their doors if they wish, but the legislature better not give them one red penny from common schools that are already underfunded and serve ALL students. Parents and corporate backers are welcome to foot the bill for their private – whoops, I mean, charter – school.

• We need REAL schools November 20, 2015 (9:38 am)

  It is outrageous and disgusting that these con artists are still siphoning money out of public schools. Shut them down and make them repay our tax money that they’ve stolen. If they don’t pay, put them in prison for theft and fraud.

• Eric1 November 20, 2015 (11:16 am)

  It is amusing to see all the posts decrying something new. State funds are not just for the unionized educational machine. Teachers, administrators and support staff all “profit” off the current system. It is no wonder they are worried that a piece of their pie might be eaten by someone else better looking.
  .
  I love to have options (you don’t have to take them). The current take it or leave it public school system leaves much to be desired. So much so that about a quarter of parents in Seattle leave it. That is sad, and it speaks volumes when 1/4 of people will pay 15K to avoid you. If people prefer pay money to someone else rather than see me for free, I would have trouble looking at myself in the mirror each morning.

• j November 20, 2015 (11:17 am)

  Taxation without representation

• Many ways to learn November 20, 2015 (12:44 pm)

  Eric1, I’m very sympathetic to your view about choices. Not all kids learn the same. I’m also sympathetic to the public schools whose mandate is to educate all regardless, especially when they are not provided the resources. And, to be frank, private schools cherry pick though self-selection (as a general rule) students who have higher socio-economic status which is a known indicator of academic success (as a general rule.) This creates a two-tier system with those of less means having fewer options and private schools marketing to their results (as a general rule.) This having been said, I’m convinced the best education in Seattle is in the public schools but it is not guaranteed nor easy to navigate. Buying a private education is less headache for many. My point, in part, is that the bigger picture needs us to fully fund McCleary and expand the definition of basic education. If that means more educational options, including charters, private, public and maybe even other models not yet dreamed of on a more level playing field, then great. The $15,000 question you reference will become moot (or differently worded) when public schools generate the results of private schools without it being by chance or herculean efforts. That is to say when more equivalent results are the norm, not high drop-out, not huge achievement gap, college and career ready issues, etc. The teacher in the mirror you reference is likely frustrated, having to face many issues beyond their control. It may be more a testimony to their fortitude in serving those without options rather than a lack of shame? What would it take to get the WEA to support charters and/or other changes? How the heck can we get the innovation we need to happen? What we have is broke (not just financially) and not the best we are capable of as a society, including the educational professionals and legislators to whom we delegate these responsibilities.

• Greg November 20, 2015 (1:02 pm)

  These corporations are about profits not students. Wheeling out the students for the cameras to wring public funds for their private use is really gross. Its almost the same as holding a public forum to let the community know how much their voice matters to them while Summit takes up all the speaking slots.

  The other two Summit schools currently operating in Washington have declined in enrollment from 250 students to 200 students in the first two months they have been open. Looks like that 100% statistic they like to tout about all their students entering college is a bit misleading if nearly 20% have already bailed 2 months into their freshman year.

  Charters are not innovators…name one innovation that came from the charter world that is impacting public education since the advent of these corporate scams.

  I’m glad to see that many in my community share my sentiment that public funds should not be doled out to unaccountable corporate raiders who run education experiments on children. There is nothing innovative about putting students in front of a computer to watch video clips and fill in worksheets. In fact the most recent CREDO report showed that these on-line courses are as effective as no education at all. There is nothing innovative about that.

• skeeter November 20, 2015 (1:25 pm)

  We better watch out. Folks like Tim Eyman get annoyed when power is taken away from taxpayers and given to government.

  I bet we’ll see a school voucher initiative next. Nevada already has them. (Granted by legislature, not initiative.) http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/charterschoice/2015/06/school_vouchers_nevada_law_breaks_new_ground.html

• Don't believe the fear mongering November 20, 2015 (1:43 pm)

  Before you believe the rumors about how charters are for-profit or about how they aren’t accountable, read the fine print: http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/charters.php#
  For instance:

  Are they required to be run by nonprofits, not for profit corporations? Yes: http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/charters.php#twenty

  Are they subject to state accountability measures and can be closed if not upholding their promises? Yes: http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/charters.php#twentyfour

  Are they required to serve students with special needs? Yes: http://www.sbe.wa.gov/faq/charters.php#eight

  Greg: I hear you. You are passionately against charter schools. But why do you think some students may have left, if in fact your numbers are correct? You think the state ruling might have spooked some of the families, just a bit? I don’t blame them for looking out for their kids in this unstable environment. What is impressive is how many students and families are in fact staying, despite not knowing what their future holds. That shows me that Summit must be doing something right.

• Dann Mead Smith November 20, 2015 (4:52 pm)

  First, charter schools are public schools and as far as going to Olympia, that is what other public school teachers and the teachers union do all the time. They spend tens of thousands of public taxpayer dollars to lobby the legislature every day during the legislative session.

• Greg November 20, 2015 (6:43 pm)

  The WEA spends zero tax dollars on lobbying. Just ask the Evergreen Freedom Foundation (or whatever they are calling themselves now).

  To the anonymous Summit employee posting the links to the law above, the point is moot since after December 14th those laws are gone.

  And why, you ask, are roughly 900 students out of over 1 million statewide in the new charters (which represents less than .1% of public students statewide) it’s probably due to many things. It could be they are not supporters of public schools but lack the resources for private school. It could be that the millions charter schools have spent on advertising and PR stunts have convinced some that they offer a quality product despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But if 99.9% of public school students and families are staying out doesn’t your argument lack credibility?

  I realize that many of the Summit people moved up here from California after drinking the corporate education koolaid and now desperately need to believe that their life path is not up in the air, but the sooner you guys realize that corporate run schools paid for with public funds went down the drain on Thursday, the sooner you can get back to the Bay Area and share your “innovations” with the people of California.

• JanS November 20, 2015 (7:20 pm)

  My daughter is a parent herself now,so I am past being involved personally in local schools, but there’s one thing that bothers me about charter schools, run by private entities, yet are considered public schools. Before the ruling that they would not get public monies for their school, how come there wasn’t enough money for already established “regular” schools, but there was enough for this school and others like it. If there is money to spend it should be on our city public schools, since Olympia seems to have a problem with fully funding education per the law.

• Greg November 20, 2015 (7:32 pm)

  The following might also be useful for people looking for information about what the research says (as opposed to the highly scripted pro charter PR message) about charter school efficacy.

  http://cloakinginequity.com/2015/11/20/drinking-charter-kool-aid-here-is-evidence/

• me November 20, 2015 (7:36 pm)

  Fund public schools. “For profit” is not “for education”.

• Marty November 20, 2015 (8:13 pm)

  Results from Seattle schools are nothing to brag about. Keep doing the same thing, keep getting the same results. It is way past time to try something different.

• NS November 20, 2015 (8:14 pm)

  I’d be really interested to know how many people here with their strong opinions in these comments actually have school age children. Are you spouting your political views and talking points or do you really believe in what the current Seattle school district has to offer our kids? Why can’t there just be another option available ( feel free to take it or leave it) in an over-crowded system?

• Evergreen November 20, 2015 (8:38 pm)

  The anti-charter group bombards these kinds of blog posts with force in order to drown out dissenting opinions. They don’t speak for me or the majority who support charter schools.

  • WSB November 20, 2015 (8:44 pm)

    Sorry, no “bombarding” going on here (do you think we don’t watch for that?). Most of the comments – on both sides – are from people we recognize as previous participants in WSB discussions on a variety of topics. – TR

• Greg November 20, 2015 (8:51 pm)

  NS, the charter people like to pretend this is about “choice” because their PR firms’ research reveals that that message appeals to people. Much like smoking in the 70’s and 80’s was about “freedom” and not focused on the data about the negative health consequences of smoking, charters like to talk about choice, innovation and the like because it’s a message that resonates with people. It helps to obscure the facts about how these schools operate, their lack of results and their poor track record with taxpayer money.

  Its irrelevant whether someone has school age children with regard to knowing the objective reality of these schools just like they don’t need to know a smoker to know cigarettes cause cancer.

• NS November 20, 2015 (9:29 pm)

  Greg, I don’t think comparing charter schools to cigarettes or their marketing tactics is even worthy of a discussion. However I believe it is extremely revelant whether you have a school age child that is effected by this topic. It’s easy to comment and have an opion on a subject that doesn’t directly effect you. I care where my tax dollars go and I support my schools and teachers. However the current SPS infrastructure isn’t enough for the massive student bubble that is about to burst in WS. I voted for charter schools and I want this to be another option and not taken away by special interest groups.

• LAintheJunction November 20, 2015 (10:01 pm)

  I absolutely don’t want my tax dollars siphoned off from the truly public schools (the ones with the name Seattle Public Schools) to be used by some random charter school with no school board oversight. If you want to send your kid to a private, charter, or corporate school, go for it – and pay for it yourself. But these schools shouldn’t be allowed to take critical public funding away from our actual public schools, which are barely scraping by as it is. I’m glad the state supreme court agrees.

• Eric1 November 20, 2015 (10:18 pm)

  If you are taking roll. I have two school age teens. One is SPS and one not. So I got skin in the game. Smart kids can get a good education in Seattle schools but woe to the average kid who gets lost in the middle. Too much attention is paid to bad students trying to conduct social services outreach using only school teachers. Seattle Public Schools doesn’t even bother to pretend they offer anything other than the same crap year after year.
  .
  I volunteer time, go to auctions and donate cash. I care about my kids and the peers in their schools. So much so that I’d like to see more options for those why care about their kids but may not have the means. Perhaps others might give out their position on where they stand?
  .
  Yes, Seattle schools are saddled with poor funding, dysfunctional administration and unprepared kids. But lots of other school districts do fine with even less local funding. There are elephants in the room and nobody wants to acknowledge it.

• MOVE! Seattle PLEASE! November 20, 2015 (11:14 pm)

  Upcoming SPS levies will get a No vote from me.
  I have a child attending a SPS school but so much of our experience has not been a 5 star one and very disappointing as a parent and a tax payer.
  I voted for charters and find the court’s decision unsatisfactory. If SPS has to open new schools due to higher enrollments, why can’t it be a charter? Same money, just new ideas and maybe an improvement without unions demanding and striking…and stinging the kids along outside while on strike.

• Greg November 21, 2015 (6:34 am)

  NS, From where I stand I don’t consider the Washington State Supreme court a special interest. I also don’t consider the 100 plus years of case law, and the interpretation of the state constitution derived from those previous decisions, a special interest. I do consider the funders of the original initiative special interests though….they were the usual suspect billionaires.

  I’m sorry if you’ve had a bad experience with Seattle public schools, but the answer in my view is to work to fix the public schools, not to create a parallel inferior, exclusionary and unaccountable system run by an inexperienced (often unlicensed) rotating cast of characters. The new Seattle school board member from west Seattle would be the first person I’d contact to get involved if I was unhappy about the state of my local public school.

• Many ways to learn November 21, 2015 (10:22 am)

  Yes, I have school aged kids. I also had a very good (as a general rule) public education in a another city here in Washington. Yes,I did wonder why a few teachers (basically bodies in a room) were allowed to be called teachers. In hindsight,I guess I learned something from the less than stellar teachers as well as the exceptional teachers I had. That issue is not exclusive to schools as most industries have and even protect underperformers…wish they did not. My parents worked hard to navigate the system and I benefitted from them doing that. I tend to admire educators (the good ones.) I do not see Charters as a threat. They are also not perfect nor a panacea. I did vote for charters this last round due to the accountability provisions and desire to see options in the face of sad results on key issues. I had voted against previous measures. I agree there is more legislstive or other work to be done to address isdue raised in court. I consider myself moderate and skeptical of idealogues while leaning toward progressivism. I am non a puppet of the charters and would normally be in the WEA/SEA camp if I had to pitch a tent. I supported SEA in the strike, but was saddened it came to that. Like most things, I did not see recent strike nor Charter schools as black and white issues. My teachers taught me to think critically and to value and look for the good in others perspectives, especially when they differ from my own. It also means I am skeptical of debates or arguments that generate in to name calling. It can be tiring to work through the muck of that and what fears and real issues are actually at play. I firmly support full funding of McCleary and expansion of the definition of basic education: our society needs it.

• AMD November 21, 2015 (3:09 pm)

  @NS
  I think taxpayers care if there is any kind of oversight and regulation over how their tax dollars are spent, whether they have school-aged children or not.
  .
  Saying someone’s opinion on school cost and structure is only valid if they have children in the schools is like saying only criminals and their families can have an opinion on the justice system and jail facilities.
  .
  The education (or lack thereof) of our society affects us everyone in some way or another. That’s why everyone has an opinion on the subject.

• Melissa Westbrook November 22, 2015 (8:35 am)

  To answer some questions:

  J, it’s taxation without representation only if you don’t vote.

  Fear-mongering, you neglected to tell the entire truth about the WA state charter law.
  1) charters have to be started by a non-profit but YES, they can be run by a for-profit company
  2) yes, charters do have accountability measures but if you go by how hard it is to close charters in other states, you’d have to wonder what will happen here.
  3) yes, the wording in the law is that charters do have to serve all kids but what is the reality across the nation? Charters usually serve fewer Special ed, homeless and ELL students.

  Summit’s been open less than half a year. I’m not sure anyone can say for certain how well they are doing.

  I agree with AMD – everyone who pays taxes has a say in this matter. And we are all invested in a good public education system because of the benefits in lower crime and a better economy (not to mention happier citizens.)

  To understand, unless the Legislature goes into special session – soon – the money will not go to any of the charters nor the Charter Commission which oversees 7 of the 9 charters that exist (nor Spokane SD which oversees two of them.)

  And, if the Legislature does call a special session there are two huge issues. One, the Court has said charters cannot have the same basic education funds so that means to fund the charters, the money must come from the General Fund. What program or department loses probably between $10-12M for charters? Health and human services? Public safety?

  The elephant in the room is McCleary. That funding should be settled for the 1M+ students in real public schools versus the Legislature tying itself up in knots for 1200 students in schools (the majority of which have been open less than half a year.)

• publicandcharter November 22, 2015 (9:40 am)

  To all who continue to call charter schools in Seattle for profit- they are ALL nonprofit in Washington. There are no corporations making money off our children. I have a child at SPS and one at the new charter and Summit is an amazing place. I am a strong supporter of public schools. I have done my time at school board meetings, PTA boards and auctions. I could put my kids in private schools- but continue to choose public options. Summit is serving low income, English as a second language learners, and a very high percentage of children with IEPs. Almost every family there chose it because traditional public school was failing their child in some way. Summit is completely committed to trying a new model and to sharing that model with any public school interested in learning about their model, something private schools rarely if ever do. Charters offer an opportunity to innovate learning and then to share those innovative models, if successful, with public schools. Again, something private schools don’t do. The teacher at the front of the class model just doesn’t work for everyone. Not every child has a parent at home looking over their shoulder. Although mine does and still needed a different model to succeed. Summit’s mentor program is changing the way we think about education. They are leveling the playing field for all children. They have “office hours” every day until 5pm. Students are not only ALLOWED to stay in the building after school, but encouraged to do so. Their goal is to have all school work done at school because if you rely on “homework”, you assume that children have a supportive home and one conducive to learning. We know that isn’t true for all children. Have any of you anti-charter school folks ever been to Summit? Have you spoken to the kids there whose lives are being changed every day? Our kids meet every week with their mentor, set goals, re-examine their goals and discuss what worked and what didn’t. That 0.1% of Washington State students are made up of about 1000 students that, with charter schools, will very likely go to college instead of drop out. They may very well be kids who will succeed instead of cost us way more than we are spending on charters by staying off welfare and out of jail. The current public school model is failing 30% of Washington state children who won’t graduate. Why on earth would you be against an alternative model that may be what those 30% need to succeed? If you don’t like charter schools, don’t send your child to one. I, for one, am a convert. I didn’t vote for charter schools. I didn’t understand what they had to offer. I have a child who would be failing at Sealth, who is thriving at Summit. And I pay taxes. My child- and yours- deserve a public school option that works for them! Have any of you wondered WHY successful billionaires are supporting Summit? Because they, too, want to see all students succeed. Because they understand the need for school choice- and that not all children can succeed in the traditional model. And in fact- 30% fail. Open your minds and go visit Summit.

• choiceisgood November 22, 2015 (12:07 pm)

  @publicandcharter

  Amen!

  And me too, with 2 school age teens; currently one at SPS and one at Summit.

  I also have oldest child who is a WSHS grad. It is the disappointment of her mediocre K-12 SPS experience that has driven our family to look for other options for our younger children. Now that she is in college, I really wish she would have had the same opportunity for charter choice. She would have been better off in college if only…

  I do believe in supporting our local school district but I need college-ready choices now. I have just one chance for educating these 3 children under my care. I cannot wait for SPS to get their act together any longer.

  We are so thankful for this charter experience our freshman is receiving at Summit for all the reasons so eloquently outlined in above post by publicandcharter.

• Greg November 22, 2015 (1:55 pm)

  The Charters in Washington may indeed be non-profit, but they are still corporations and are not accountable to the public (if at all) in the same way real public schools are and are thus not eligible for public levy funds. At any rate in Washington State it’s moot since in the eyes of the law they are on their own as of December 14th, 2015 and will have to pay back all of the public funds they have received through the state.

  Additionally, when Summit Sierra is serving only ONE ELL student it is a bit of a stretch to keep claiming that this demographic is a core part of the Summit mission. Summit Sierra’s Special education population is 11, which is 10% of its 110 students. Calling this percentage “high” is also a bit of stretch since for most schools in Washington state the percentage is at least this and is usually higher.

  If Summit wants to continue operating as a private school (and using billionaire funding to offer scholarships and reduced tuition) I’d tolerate their efforts – though knowing what I know about how their curriculum was developed from talking with previous Summit employees I’d not send my own kids there or recommend it to anyone else.

  As for the many other claims made by the (I assume) Summit employee above they are lagely warrantless. For example, the claim “That 0.1% of Washington State students are made up of about 1000 students that, with charter schools, will very likely go to college instead of drop out” is utterly baseless. First, 20% of the students who started the year in Summit schools have already left—does this mean they are now destined to drop out? How could anyone possibly know that? Also, what evidence can possibly exist that the remaining 80% will now “very likely” go to college? Making claims like this is irresponsible. Lastly, the 1000 number is inaccurate – there are now less than 900 charter students statewide.

  The evidence is clear as a number of different CREDO reports (and many, many other peer reviewed studies) make clear – charters produce inferior results. Unaccountable corporations (non-profit or otherwise) are not the solution for improving our public schools. They offer nothing that cannot currently be offered within the system – with one exception—they allow schools to hire non-licensed and non-union employees. To answer your rhetorical question about why would right-wing billionaires support the charter movement, I think its part and parcel of the general attack on the working classes they are waging on many fronts across the nation.

• Melissa Westbrook November 23, 2015 (10:31 pm)

  Public and Charter, you aren’t understanding. Again, the charter law says that a charter school must be started by a non-profit but yes, CAN farm out its operations to a for-profit. That may not be the case right now but it is certainly the case in thousands of charters across this country.

  I appreciate that you think wealthy people know everything but Bill Gates was not hired, elected or appointed to direct public education in this country but he’s certainly trying. That he would never send his children to a charter school or subject them to Common Core or its testing should tell you something.

  Greg, the state has said the charters don’t have to pay back the money which is fine with me. But a whole host of other questions are still out there like:

  1) When the Court’s ruling first came down in September, the Washington State Charter School Association first said that “donors” would pay to keep the charters going and then they were soliciting for donations at their website (and still are.)

  What would that mean about the status of the charter schools if they received only private dollars to run on? (I’m assuming the feds may cut them off as well but I’ll have to ask.)

  Are they still charter schools? Who would oversee them in their quasi-private state?

  2) If they do take private dollars to stay in business, would that keep them eligible for any school levy dollars? For example, there are three charter schools within Seattle School District and the district has two upcoming levies in Feb. 2016. (Under the law, charters are eligible for school levy dollars in a district if they exist BEFORE the levies are passed.)

  Meaning, if those charters do not have state funding when the levies come to the ballot, would they still get the dollars if they got state funding later on (which would restore their charter status?)

  The Legislature is not going to have a special session to fund the charter schools, given they couldn’t bother to have one for McCleary. Putting the needs of 1200 students in schools opened for less than half a year over the 1M+ student in public schools who have been patiently waiting for full-funding for their educations would be patently wrong.

Sorry, comment time is over.