Followup: Madison sign opponents pursue appeal with the city

(WSB file photo of Madison’s east-facing gym exterior, where the sign would go)
One month ago today, we reported that the city had approved the four-year-old proposal for a 30-square-foot electronic sign outside the Madison Middle School gym. A group of neighbors has appealed the decision, and tomorrow, they go downtown for a conference with the city’s Hearing Examiner, to prepare for a full hearing in July. We talked with one of the neighbors, Claudia Ludwig, who explained why they’re challenging the decision:

The neighbors have “three main issues,” she explained. First one is the process – since the sign requires a zoning “departure,” a special committee had to be formed to consider it, and Ludwig says she and others who participated didn’t realize it would only meet once but did realize, she said, “the decision had already been made” in favor of the sign. (The official notice for the public meeting last June was headlined “First Public Meeting”; the original 2009 notice seeking volunteers for the committee mentioned “meetings.”)

Second, she says, are the safety considerations – the intersection within view of the sign, 45th and Spokane, has had crashes blamed on “distraction” even without an illuminated sign, and the block by the school has many children.

Third, she says, is an inaccurate statement in the decision contending that neighbors’ concerns were “mitigated.”

Those who sought out the sign, including the school’s PTSA, say it’s to increase communication; a commenter explained further, following our story last month:

If the electronic sign is not approved, then a regular sign will be placed on the outside of the gym wall and no special permitting is needed for that one. Neither sign will block anyone’s view. It’s sad the it has taken this long for something so simple to happen, but that is not the fault of the PTSA at Madison, but rather the permitting of the City of Seattle. To the immediate neighbors of Madison, I truly believe this sign is not going to be the eyesore you think it will be. Quite honestly, having it turned off at night will make it less visible, rather than a regular sign which will display its message 24/7. I would think it would be helpful to neighbors to know of upcoming events like open houses, music programs & science night. If not for a chance for the community to engage in such events, at least for a heads up that street parking will be congested. Yes, there are multiple ways for Madison to communicate with families and this is just another route. We all have our best modes of communicating and this sign is meant to alert/remind the greater community and students, who are not checking our website daily. We also want to use this sign to shout out our children’s successes. Honestly, an old fashioned sign is more work and a waste of valuable staff time to manage. And no, there will not be advertising or video.

Ludwig says she is a teacher and has worked in a school with an electronic sign, and sees no proof that it will increase communication.

She also contends that the world of communication has changed since Madison parents raised $15,000 for the illuminated sign more than four years ago, and also secured a city grant. Many more people use electronic media, including social media, to communicate, she contends, and it’s easier to get messages out.

The process dragged on, documents say, because there was some expectation the city sign code was changing – but it didn’t, so the process re-started, and finally led to the decision announced last month. Ludwig says this is the first such sign allowed in a neighborhood that wasn’t part of a school remodel. And yes, having a view of an illuminated sign is a concern for them too: “We have all remodeled our houses, and put a lot of effort into our neighborhood. For years, we’re going to walk out and see this thing. It’s a frustrating and emotional process.”

As of right now, the full hearing on the appeal is scheduled for July 31st. Ludwig says anyone interested in being part of the process can contact her at ludwig.cm@gmail.com. We’ll be following up after tomorrow’s pre-hearing to see what’s next.

19 Replies to "Followup: Madison sign opponents pursue appeal with the city"

  • Observer June 16, 2013 (4:12 pm)

    First world problem.

  • ForReal June 16, 2013 (4:28 pm)

    I’m amazed at how people can come up with the most meager excuses for not allowing progress. I guess that’s the history and culture of this city.

  • Nichole June 16, 2013 (5:21 pm)

    Who needs a sign? They call and email constantly for every little thing going on at the school. I have a student there trust me communication is already on over load.

  • Hutch June 16, 2013 (5:30 pm)

    Spend the money on education instead.

  • Star55 June 16, 2013 (5:33 pm)

    Having been a part of the orginal remodel I can tell you that the sign was part of the original plan for the remodel but the PTA fell short of the funds necessary to put in the sign. The sign was to be placed right in front of the school next to the sidewalk. At that time we had very little neighborhood involvement but those who were involved did not oppose the sign. I am curious how many of those complaining have lived in the “school neighborhood” before 2004.

  • rclan June 16, 2013 (6:09 pm)

    My son is going to WSHS next year so this is no longer my issue but seriously? Is this really worth fighting? The fundraising done for this sign 4 years ago cannot just be reallocated to another use – unfortunately. As a past member of the PTSA board, I too agree with Nicole in part – the school does a great job communicating. It’s not on overload for parents who actually care what is happening at school. I’m not sure I’d call an electronic sign seen only by those dropping off or picking up their kids ‘progress’ but it’s a done deal how they spend that money. Lastly, I would also prefer to spend the money on enhancing education at Madison. Can’t imagine a sign is really top priority when programs are cut every year.

  • NW June 16, 2013 (6:15 pm)

    Had a neon sign go into a new estabishment at and around Andover and California and man was it bright and look very ,inch out of place been in the neighborhood going on 40 yrs now. The thing ,the sign, just blared out was uninviting and literally hurt my eyes. Fortunately the owner either didn’t like it or heard complaints. Don’t know if this sign at my own middle school Madison wants neon but I agree ith the neighbors if they are against one. Would look out of place in a residential neighborhood, which by the way what West Seattle larger majority is. Residential. Leave the bright signs to those other areas…..l .

  • justme June 16, 2013 (6:18 pm)

    I live in the neighborhood. My son also went to school there and I feel it to be a huge waste of money. There are so many more important things to focus on!
    We had so many e-mails and phone messages during his years there, the sign would have been of no importance to me whatsoever. Seems like you’d get more “heads up” with a facebook page, and it’s free.

  • Genesee Hill June 16, 2013 (7:09 pm)

    As I have turned over a new *positive* leaf, I look on the bright side.

    Thank goodness that you super residents adjacent to Madison are not arguing over a Topless Bar’s NEON sign. Things could get nasty, if that were the case.

    Thanks.

    And thank you for living in Mayberr, er, West Seattle.

  • Anon June 16, 2013 (7:49 pm)

    Yes – it is a problem. It’s a waste of money – money that should be going to education. I 100% agree with Claudia on this one.

  • G June 16, 2013 (8:16 pm)

    It’s a sign on the WALL of the gym, people, not hangin out over the street selling cheap rooms at a motel. You remember being a kid? Don’t you think, as a student, you’d like to see your event up on a neon sign? Make you feel proud to be part of the school. I would, and I remember taking part in music marathons when I was a youngster at Madison.

    Counting the days I can fly back to the normal world.

  • ElizaS June 16, 2013 (8:40 pm)

    I agree that perhaps an electronic sign might be a distraction – that intersection is pretty busy and distracting already. I do, however, love reading the signs at various schools I drive by (Math Night! Science Fair! Play! Jimmy R. is student of the month!) that DO have them and think they can be a way to communicate and connect with the community at-large rather than simply the families who attend the school itself (and are receiving information via social media, flyers, robocalls, newsletters and the like). Is the non-electronic sign opposed by the neighborhood as well?

  • Alvis June 17, 2013 (3:01 am)

    Last time I checked the city’s sign code, digital message boards were flatly banned along streets in single family residential zones — and all of Seattle’s public schools and parks are zoned single family residential no matter their actual locations. That, I think, is why the digital message board at West Seattle High School had to be mounted hundreds of feet back from the street and it’s why the city refused to consider permitting a digital message board along the California Ave. arterial side of Hiawatha Park even though it wouldn’t have been visible from any single family zone except the park itself. How and why the city approved a digital sign for Madison is beyond me.

  • community member June 17, 2013 (8:22 am)

    There’s no point in having any kind of codes if they are just going to be set aside randomly. This isn’t my fight, and I am not involved. But I sure am not going to criticize ANYBODY for insisting that the city stick to its codes. We live with a system of rules. It’s not like we have a system where the rules just don’t apply as long as it’s good cause, or involves the PTA, or if the money has already been spent, etc.
    .
    In fact, I think that any neighbor who is insisting that the city follows it’s own rules; applies the law fairly, equitably and openly; and refuses to step down just because of a few belittling comments, is heroic. And should consider running for office. It’s not nimby-ism, it’s principle to insist that the rules apply.
    .
    As far as it being money already spent, weren’t our tax dollars already spent developing the city codes?

  • Nichole June 17, 2013 (8:26 am)

    Hey rclan thanks for the personal jab. I do care what’s happening at the school that’s why I write down the event the first time they call and don’t need the email and the over load of reminder calls. Or a sign.

  • Tony S June 17, 2013 (9:22 am)

    The “Seattle Process” writ large.

  • alkiobserver June 17, 2013 (9:30 am)

    Hard to riled up about this first world problem. Its a sign that most people will flat out ignore as it has no relevance to them. The same way people ignore the flashing, electronic billboards along 1-5 outside Fife.

  • dee June 17, 2013 (7:00 pm)

    Reader boards are obnoxious. Especially in a residential area. Totally useless in these days of internet if-you-want-to-know-something. Geez especially for middle school stuff. PTA rethink this please.

  • madashell June 18, 2013 (1:33 pm)

    This sign was approved because of the insider status of its chief proponents. Didn’t hurt that KC Exec Dow Constantine threw in some money for it.

    Joe Blow seeking a variance for a tool shed gets to talk to the hand, while this lousy proposal gets to slip through the back door.

    I don’t blame those who will be most impacted by the sight of this thing, standing up for their rights under city building codes and land use. Good for you.

    The school can use the $$$ for other important things that improve the learning environment.

Sorry, comment time is over.