Another car vs. bicycle crash, this time on 35th SW

Mookie January 13, 2011 (12:44 pm)

Gee, bicyclists who don’t wear helmets are such free spirits!

nomeato January 13, 2011 (12:44 pm)

The description of his injuries is slightly objectionable.

KJC January 13, 2011 (1:17 pm)

Bicyclists you may not pass on the right. Follow the rules of the road or you will continue to get injured and rightly so.

CB January 13, 2011 (1:21 pm)

Riding your bike on the street is like playing russian roulette… sooner or later your luck will run out.

lucky chick January 13, 2011 (1:30 pm)

Stupid comments above.
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If updates become available, I’d like to know what kind of collision (left cross or right hook, in bike terms, most likely). No way the cyclist was going 30 mph, in my educated opinion, as a commuter who cycles that intersection. It’s at the top of a hill from the south and west, and only a one-block-long downhill from the south. Nope, 30 mph is a stretch.

me January 13, 2011 (1:31 pm)

Why do they always mention if or if not the bicyclist was wearing a helmet?
Mookie and CB, the same can be said for driving or riding in a car. Sooner or later your free spirit luck will run out!
I think the WSB should start mentioning if the driver of a car wreck was wearing their seatbelt, if the car had air bags, working brake, signal and head lights, if the windshield was free of cracks, etc, etc.

Point is, someone was hurt. Drivers need to slow down. I hope both people are OK, emotinally and physically.

2wheels a-go-go January 13, 2011 (1:47 pm)

@KJC: by “rightly so”, do you actually believe that cyclists *deserve* to get injured? Also, where in the story does it mention that the cyclist passed on the right?
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@CB: riding your bike on the street is the law. Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with WA state bicycle laws:
http://www.bicyclealliance.org/safety/rcwlaw.html

Even if you don’t ride a bike, these laws apply to motorists (i.e. bicyclists are on the road, so pay attention and watch for them).

Yardvark January 13, 2011 (1:50 pm)

The odds are dramastically better that your luck will run out while driving a car, actually.

That said, you need to wear a helmet when riding a bike…ALWAYS. In my opinion, brains are great as long as they are inside the head.

I also agree with lucky chick, that those comments above are “stupid” or at least premature since you don’t know the details of the crash yet. (Nor, apparently, the rules of the road.)

lucky chick January 13, 2011 (2:00 pm)

Thanks, 2wheels, I get too mentally exhausted to try to educate people who seem to be incapable of learning the laws (yet continue to run their mouths) regarding cycling. You’re a better man-or-chick than I am :).

T-Rex January 13, 2011 (2:04 pm)

I hate driving in my car on 35th, I can’t imagine even thinking of riding a bike on that street.

Hopefully all are OK.

Mookie January 13, 2011 (2:09 pm)

I do hope the injured rider recovers fully. A pretty scary refresher course on those Rules of the Road which – in Seattle – require bicyclists to wear a helmet.

sb in ws January 13, 2011 (2:10 pm)

That “minivan” looks like a Honda CR-V

WSB January 13, 2011 (2:13 pm)

I said the same thing to our field person. That’s not the car involved in the crash. The minivan is off to the side.

csw January 13, 2011 (2:17 pm)

If the byciclist “T-boned” the car, he wasn’t passing the car, he was coming from the side street (perpendicular (?)

lucky chick January 13, 2011 (2:26 pm)

Oops, one more thing… a cyclist may indeed pass on the right, provided they are in a travel lane. That includes a road shoulder. (Guess I broke my own don’t-respond-to-the-trolls rule!)

helmetsarerequired January 13, 2011 (2:33 pm)

Mayor ‘McSchwinn’ needs to launch a safety campaign urging the use of helmets while riding bikes in Seattle. If not that perhaps ticketing for not wearing a helmet on a bike could help with the City’s budget shortfalls.

Seriously – glad he AND the driver are relatively ok.

2wheels a-go-go January 13, 2011 (3:18 pm)

@helmetsarerequired: The Cascade Bicycle Club already runs a helmet safety campaign. And bicyclists who ride without helmets can already be ticketed and fined $30 + $51 in court fees. Given that the vast majority of Seattle bicyclists *do* ride with helmets (we have one of highest rates of helmet use in the country), I doubt that such fines would make a dent in Seattle’s budget deficit.
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How about being more vigilant about ticketing motorists who speed (I’m thinking the Admiral hill where just about everyone exceeds the posted speed limit), run red lights (where there’s *not* a red light camera), and yap on their cell phones while driving — all of which are illegal and far more prevalent that the occasional helmet-less cyclist (who is only a danger to themselves vs. motorists who endanger themselves and those around them).

Yardvark January 13, 2011 (3:38 pm)

I figure that all bicyclists who ride without helmets should be pulled over by the police, just like in this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWF4x01MkzE&feature=player_embedded

Get well soon, man. (And wear a helmet next time.)

I. Ponder January 13, 2011 (3:58 pm)

As a bicycle commuter and auto driver I am continually shocked and angered by the vitriol immediately posted against cyclists in general. These anti-cyclist posters really need to get psych counseling. I believe drivers are actually frustrated by massive traffic caused by other cars on the road but can’t do anything about it. They feel free to road rage cyclists and flame on the blogs. Go pick on someone your own size or take mass transit if you can’t handle the stress of driving. It’s not bicycles that are holding up traffic.

dameDonna January 13, 2011 (4:20 pm)

This was a shocker when dropping the kiddo off at school today (that’s Neighbor Preschool in the pic). The driver didn’t see the bicyclist at all. I hope the bicyclist is doing okay. And, I hope the driver wasn’t texting (that’s seems to be happening a lot).

MB January 13, 2011 (4:24 pm)

This isn’t related to the accident in this story, but I’m curious, does anyone with teenagers in driver’s ed know if they have added anything into the curriculum pertaining to bikes on the road as well? I took driver’s ed about 14 years ago and there was nothing. If not, they clearly should. I also think bikers should have to learn the rules of the road just like drivers, that might help. Ive never understood why they dont have to. I’m so sick of this argument all together, as if you can lump all drivers or all bikers together because you had one (or even a few) bad run ins. Its very obvious that EVERYONE needs further education to be able to properly share the road. I’ve
had a couple of extremely close calls when bicyclists have come out of nowhere and been very lucky that at least I was paying attention. It goes both ways. I’m smart enough to know that doesn’t mean all cyclists are dumb. There are good cyclists and terrible cyclists, just as there are good drivers and terrible drivers. We all eff up and create dangerous situations and we all need to be more careful. Why is that so hard for some of us to get?

csw January 13, 2011 (4:45 pm)

No, the driver didn’t see the cyclist most likely, because the BIKE “T-boned” the car! That means the BIKE hit the car. The bike could not have stopped at the stop sign.

MB January 13, 2011 (4:59 pm)

I’m continually angered by BOTH the anti-cyclist AND the anti-driver comments…they are equally bad. It never ceases to amaze me how frigging judgmental and “holier than thou” this subject makes people act…

Ernie McCracken January 13, 2011 (5:07 pm)

csw,

I am just curious, is it possible that the car pulled out in front of the bike? Perhaps the bike was traveling on 35th and had no stop-sign?

w.s. maverick January 13, 2011 (5:35 pm)

those bike riders will never get it through there thick heads that it is dangerous to ride with cars, move over to the side walk or ride down less busy roads. there are pleanty of other routes go then busy 35th

Jake January 13, 2011 (5:43 pm)

Does anybody know if there’s a future plan for a Fauntleroy-style rechanneling of 35th, or any related SDOT studies? I’d be curious to know. 35th seems like a perfect candidate for such a project, which might help prevent these types of incidents.

Cathy January 13, 2011 (6:59 pm)

Ernie M, you have a good point.

J January 13, 2011 (8:16 pm)

@maverick. I believe it is illegal to ride a bicycle on the sidewalk. Could you imagine the pedestrian injuries if we did?
BTW-My last CT scan showed no signs of enlarged cranial bones. We as bikes are part of traffic. No bike lane required. We are allowed to take up as much of the lane of traffic as necessary to be safe. It is also legal to ride two abreast.
Once again here is a post that is helpful to both drivers and cyclist.
http://www.bicyclealliance.org/safety/rcwlaw.html

austin January 13, 2011 (8:57 pm)

It is not illegal in Seattle to ride a bike on the sidewalk at appropriate speed.
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I agree with I. Ponder.

lucky chick January 13, 2011 (9:26 pm)

god, i wish non-cyclists would educate themselves. CSW, a t-bone happens when a cyclist is right-hooked or left-crossed by a car, both the driver’s fault.

velo_nut January 13, 2011 (9:36 pm)

I pack when I ride… just saying.

(required) January 13, 2011 (9:39 pm)

lucky chick is right. The truth is, way too many people who drive their cars anywhere today seem to perceive bikes and pedestrians and slow cars as obstacles, idiots that are just in their way. Moreover, frominside a car, drivers often have no idea how loud and disorienting their cars really are on the outside. And on I-35, this is even more the case. As long as 35th remains 4-lanes, two each way, with no turn lane in the middle, it will be a danger to pedestrians, cyclists, and drivers alike. It is a highway. No one on it ever drives 30mph or less; everyone drives the speed limit or greater. Whoever was hurt should sue the city for this design flaw. The city knows and has known that 35th’s four lanes equals danger. It is time to end this and make 35th avenue one lane each way, with parking on the sides, bike lanes on the sides, and a turn lane in the middle, just like Fauntleroy. Better, let’s make it a boulevard with a planter strip down the middle. Back in the day when cars didn’t always fly, maybe, maybe it may have worked. not today, when all cars race and exhibit road rage. End the highway on 35th NOW!!!

35this35mph January 13, 2011 (9:54 pm)

Yeah at that intersection there’s no stop sign/light on 35th. But there is on Willow. However it is ~1/2 way down the long hill between the true “High Point” (water towers to the west, Our Lady of Guadalupe to the east) and the bottom of the hill @ 35th and Morgan. Plenty of time/ distance for a cyclist to get up to speed. But they are allowed to travel up to 35MPH!

tim January 13, 2011 (10:11 pm)

Lucky Chick – read the post about the earlier Delridge/Cloverdale auto/bike crash. Was that “t-bone” wreck the driver’s fault?

B Czyk January 13, 2011 (10:16 pm)

I agree with I Ponder and MB, we all need to share the road better, because guess what, we are all the other guy!

I love driving my car, though I primarily commute to work via transit or bicycling, and walk a fair amount downtown. I witness on a daily routine moronic and unsafe behavior by pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorists alike. I often see people jaywalking while taking on their cell phone and not even bothering to see if cars may be approaching. I can’t remember the last day in about a year and a half, that I haven’t seen at least one car run a ride light, after the walk sign has come on, because the driver doesn’t want to get stuck for another cycle at the light.

Cyclists do have a right to share a road, and they may also use the sidewalk (but must yield to pedestrians when doing so) – it has to do with where a cyclist feels safe. That being said, as a cyclist, I sure as heck wouldn’t ride down 35th – as my mom used to say, you don’t want to be “dead right” and a cyclist is almost always going to lose to a car in an accident.

All these comments should serve as a huge red flag – stop being so self centered – be patient, share the road, let some one cross in front of you once in awhile, instead of feeling like you have been wronged in some way! Let’s give each other a break – we’re all neighbors after all!

JRF January 13, 2011 (11:30 pm)

There is a heck of a lot of speculation and blame being dished up here with only a few sketchy facts.

w.s. maverick January 14, 2011 (6:23 am)

i think more people pack when they drive. just saying

Yardvark January 14, 2011 (7:12 am)

Well said, B Czyk.

Ex-Westwood Resident January 14, 2011 (10:17 am)

In less than 30 seconds of seeing a cyclist I can tell if it is a conscientious biker or a Critical Mass idiot.
If it is the former I totally respect and admire them for their willingness to obey traffic laws. THOSE are the bikers that I respect and admire for their dedication, esp when I see them riding in the adverse weather we have. THOSE are the bikers that have my patience and consideration. THOSE are the one I don’t mind waiting for a clear safe path to pass them, giving them as wide a berth as I can.
The Critical Mass folks can go to he** as far as I am concerned. THOSE folks give all the other bikers a bad name and unfortunately they (the conscientious ones) get lumped in with them.
A bike will ALWAYS lose a fight with a car, no matter whose fault it is. Both need to start being aware of each other. Drivers need to be on the lookout and biker need to keep their head on a swivel. It helps BOTH when ALL traffic laws are obeyed by both parties.
As far as re-channeling 35th…If you want to get anywhere in a sensible amount of time in WS pray that they DON’T do this.
Oh and FYI the speed limit on 35th is 35 MPH…not 30 MPH.

george January 14, 2011 (11:23 am)

I love that headstone: But I Had The Right of Way.

Aaron January 14, 2011 (12:51 pm)

Exactly bikes need to watch out. Expect drivers to do the dumbest thing imaginable because being dead and right is little consolation to your family

Raymik January 14, 2011 (2:09 pm)

I have a question. Who has right of way when I am waiting at stop light and cyclist comes up on my right, I am going straight and they are turning left? I figure I have the right of way since I have been waiting but by the glares I get I am not so sure. Sometimes I don’t even see them. I would think if the cyclist was turning left they would be on my left. If anyone could clarify that would be great. I don’t want to be part of a news story.

(required) January 14, 2011 (7:34 pm)

Wait a minute, “Ex-Westwood Resident.” I feel strongly that 35th is a dangerous road as it is. You seem to suggest that reducing lanes and making it safer by essentially requiring single lane traffic and limiting people to actually only drive 35 is somehow ridiculous. You take pains to emphasize that 35th’s speed limit is 35 not 30, which we all know. But that’s not what I said. I wrote, “It is a highway. No one on it ever drives 30mph or less; everyone drives the speed limit or greater.” My point was something other than what you apparently saw (sorry I wasn’t clearer.) My point was this: people so routinely speed on 35th that no one ever even travels at just a mere 5mph less than the speed limit — do you disagree? Does anyone have a different observation? If not, why isn’t that fact somewhat telling that 35th is a speedway? My point remains” 35th is seen by way too many, if not the vast majority of its drivers, as a “highway.” It’s NOT! It is alarming that no one on it seems able to restrain themselves enough to even go a mere 5mph slower than its speed limit! Also, “Ex-Westwood,” I disagree with your comment that reducing or “rechanneling,” as you said, would prevent us all from getting “anywhere in a sensible amount of time in WS.” “Sensible”? You think some substantial time addition will result? That’s just foolish, if you just remember the facts for a moment. Remember: All of the four-lane part of 35th is barely a few miles long. If you made people have to go no faster than 35 — or even 30 — you simply cannot add more than a few minutes more time to a commute from Avalon to Roxbury, no matter what. Just do the math. And what’s more important than SAFETY, when 35th has some of the largest concentrations of multifamily residential properties in all of West Seattle, it is surrounded by nothing but dense residential neighborhoods, and the number of accidents and noise volume along the highway is just ridiculous. It is time to quit this nonthinking, knee-jerk type of mentality that doing to 35th what we did to Fauntleroy will cause woe to all.

I. Ponder January 14, 2011 (7:52 pm)

If a cyclist is turning left and riding in the road, they need to be in the left lane. They should never be making a left turn from the right-hand side of traffic. If the WALK sign is lit they can use the cross-walk to get to the other side of the street. If the pedestrian signal in the Junction is green, they can cross on the diagonal. Drivers have a ‘no turn on red’ when pedestrians have a green, yet many drivers don’t abide by the ‘no turn on red’. Is this where the incident you describe happened? Bicycle (and car) safety is about following the rules of the road, behaving in a way that’s predictable, signalling with hand or eye contact, and making sure you’re visible. I do my best to follow these procedures, yet some drivers still cut me off and yell obscenities at me on a regular basis.

Raymik January 17, 2011 (10:41 am)

Thanks for clarification. I did almost hit a cyclist turning left from my right as I was going straight on a green light. I did not see him come up on my right as I was stopped on red. But the glare and the shaking of the head as i was going straight got me thinking that I was doing something wrong.

Davey Oil February 2, 2011 (1:19 pm)

Of course this comment thread has its fair share of hateful, misinformed crap from the troll-bog. All discussions of bikes on the roads do. It sucks, just like how road rage and the fear of loosing control, getting punched, or escalating conflict can cause many of us to avoid entering into dialog with other road users in any productive manner; a fear of trolls keeps many a questioner from asking smart and significant questions online.
I’d just like to personally thank Raymik for being brave and asking a very good question about right-of-way. And I. Ponder for answering with their own take on the issue. I’m a daily cyclist and in my experience, it is rare as hell that another road user asks me, “What are you doing on the left side of the road?” for example, and actually wants to know. Of course, harassing, or aggressive or threatening behavior is much more common. Its a sad and scary thing. When a driver deals with their frustration by asking clarifying questions in an appropriate venue… brilliant!