Property Taxes

[redblack]

thanks, skeeter.

i roll taxes and insurance into my mortgage payments, so i rarely look at the details. and i’m willing to own up to my own ignorance: i didn’t realize that washington had capped property taxes – which is the very thing that started driving california to its fiscal knees decades ago.

.87%. wow. good research, man.

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[Betty453]

Liberal craziness on display once again.

No, Mrs, Brayden renters DO NOT pay property taxes. ONLY property owners pay property taxes or it would not be called a.. say it with me… ” Property Tax ! Jesus !

Only a Liberal such as Mrs. Braydon can twist reality to fit her situation and not even blink. Facts, Logic and not even titles on the taxes get in the way.

The ever lovely Mrs. Brayden just assumes that the evil capitalist land owner ( ie. The Landlord ) raises her rent to reflect the increase in their property taxes and much of the time that is true. But, what she is leaving out is that she will be the first person aboard the ” regulating the rent train ” that is now catching steam around Seattle to prevent this and her reasoning will be because of the ” Greed ‘ of the Landlords we needs this to be done.

In Liberal land reality sucks therefore they have learned the trick to just invent your own state of reality which enables them to ignore such things a Facts and Logic and certainly Math. The Democrats are suddenly the party of ” Science ” when it comes Global warming but obviously Math doesn’t have anything to do with Science..? OMG !

Yes, This altered state of consciousness that I refer to as ” Liberal land ” allows Liberals like Mrs. Brayden to tell you such hallucinogenic tales like the Government run Programs , agencies or pretty much Anything they do is a ” Good return for your dollar ” . i have to admit … after i stopped laughing and found my chair I gave gave her some props. WoW ! Even Harry Reid would laugh on that one.

Yes, it is true ( St3 ) at ( $ 1 Thousand Million Dollars ) -per- mile to move no more than 10% of traffic is a Great Deal in Liberal-ville. So will the Heroin ” Adventureland Amusement park ” downtown and please don’t forget the ( 2 ) Lane non expandable tunnel that replaced the ( 3 ) Lane Viaduct that was built before traffic even started will be a stunning return on investment. Oh.. Don’t forget the Toll that will end when my Great grand children’s Children retire.

The only problem with Mrs. Brayden and the other Liberals is that they live in Seattle and not ” Liberal Land ” and here in Seattle we don’t have money trees that bear Gumdrops filled with gold. We have real taxes that are going up by the second with no consideration of the consequences these wasteful fantasies are having on the people paying the bills.

The sad thing is that Liberals only understand what reality is all about when the sign on the way into Liberal-ville says. ” Welcome to Venzuela ” or ” Thank you for visiting Greece. Please leave your wallet at the door “.

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[skeeter]

California’s cap is very different than Washington’s cap. California capped assessed values. Washington capped total taxes collected. In California you can have two identical homes worth the same amount of money. One person bought decades ago and pays tax of $2,000. The other bought last year and pays tax of $8,000. Even though both homes are worth the same amount and receive similar services. Washington’s approach is conceptually very different. Everyone is assessed at (presumably) fair market value. Then the tax rate is just backed into based on the total county-wide tax amount from the previous year plus a small inflation amount and plus any new construction.

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[redblack]

the other thing that “conservatives” love to ignore about the reality of taxation – the elephant in the room, if you will – is that the heavily-populated, dense, liberal, and diverse areas of the state send far more tax money to olympia than they receive in the form of “gold-filled gum drops.”

the inverse is true for the rural, more conservative areas of the state.

also, too, by the way, last time i checked, our fair city had a rainy day fund (budget surplus) of around $700 million.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by redblack.

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[mark47n]

Betty and other ranting, foaming, slavering righties, What is it with you and your ilk and the improper use of capital letters and punctuation?

As to the renter question as it pertains to property tax; renter’s pay property taxes. It is part of the equation that is used to calculate what rent should be. Otherwise landlords would operate at a deficit all of the time.

Redblack, thank you for mentioning about how statewide tax distribution works! For the record, some years ago (5 or so, I’ve not looked it up recently) for every dollar that was collected in Ferry Co, the county with the least tax revenue, they received something on the the order of $2.80. King Co, on the other hand received less than $1 for every dollar collected. And, strangely, it’s the rural, conservative counties the complain about how the west side pulls the state in terms of politics, all the while sucking at that liberal tax teat. I wish I could get that out of my head now.

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[JoB]

http://www.kingcounty.gov/depts/assessor/TaxpayerAssistance/TaxRelief.aspx

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[JKB]

Mark, you mean “renters pay property taxes”. No apostrophe, which I only mention because you were just calling out Betty for (egregious and ridiculous) syntax issues.

So a really free-market analysis makes the link between taxes and rent pretty weak. A landlord looks at the demand and figures out what rent price optimizes his revenue. The connection is that is optimal revenue doesn’t cover expenses (which include property tax), then he sells the property and leaves the game.

Yeah, if I were doing it, I’d total my expenses up, tack on 20%, and charge that as rent. So much for theory.

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[JoB]

betty453

“The ever lovely Mrs. Brayden just assumes that the evil capitalist land owner ( ie. The Landlord ) raises her rent to reflect the increase in their property taxes and much of the time that is true. But, what she is leaving out is that she will be the first person aboard the ” regulating the rent train ” that is now catching steam around Seattle to prevent this and her reasoning will be because of the ” Greed ‘ of the Landlords we needs this to be done.”

so.. you admit that part of rent is based on landlord costs and those costs include taxes…
but that doesn’t matter because i am a squirrel? oh wait.. you called me a liberal ;-)

i will own that. I will own that i think that something needs to be done to alleviate the lack of low income housing.. though i am not sure that rent control is the answer.

but.. in the interests of fairness i would point out that one has absolutely nothing to do with the other.

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[mark47n]

You got me, JKB, Those sneaky apostrophes!

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[buttercup]

Pier 1 left Westwood because their rent was greatly increased.Not the minimum wage issue.

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[mark47n]

I guess the area was saturated with papasan chairs.

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[JanS]

Dear Ms. Betty…I could send you the letters if you wish. I’m a renter, and every time my rent goes up, reason #1 is usually property tax increase. If you were the landlord, I’m sure you wouldn’t just expect it to come out of your savings…oh, wait…that comes from rent you would charge, too…if you were a landlord .

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[anonyme]

I think one reason that the implementation of a state income tax has been stymied in our state is that it is always presented as an additional tax. As long as there is such an exorbitant sales tax in place, that vote will never pass. The bill needs to be written so that the sales tax is simultaneously either greatly reduced or eliminated, as in Oregon.

It’s nice that Betty has found an alter ego in William – or is he just one of her ‘multiples’? Is there a special club that teaches this writing style?

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[JTB]

It’s really encouraging to see an informed discussion about taxes and revenue distribution arise in contrast to the tired and predictable anti-tax memes.

mark47n, Regarding your question about the irregular use of capital letters, the phrase “words alone cannot express. . . ” comes to mind. I’ve always taken it as an attempt by the writer to impart emphasis without understanding it actually displays an unfamiliarity with or deliberate disregard for conventional writing standards of the sort typically presented in high school English classes. Conventional writing guidelines encourage use of sentence structure to convey emphasis in preference to punctuation tools such as italics or boldface which are regarded as bells and whistles substituting for good writing. The sad irony is this idiosyncratic writing style has the counterproductive effect of reducing the author’s credibility and inviting readers to conjure up all sorts of possibilities for what inspires it.

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[JoB]

JTB.. or perhaps it reflects cognitive disorders..

i still have a working mind but struggle with word finding and proper punctuation these days.. thus.. all those annoying …

i don’t think we can assume anything about writing style… it’s content that matters.

and yes.. this is a more productive conversation about taxes than we have had in a long time.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by JoB.

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[JTB]

JoB, for those of us of a certain age, struggling to find words is an inconvenient truth not necessarily indicative of a cognitive disorder. ;-) Certainly your own writing is notable for being clear and nuanced. Of course, there are times where use of an emoticon to convey satire or irony might help some readers to avoid making incorrect assumptions about your intent.

Otherwise, I think style is a significant part of content. But I would agree that making assumptions about what informs a particular style is precarious. For instance there are some mental health issues that show up in irregular capitalization yet it would be wrong and unwise to assume everyone using idiosyncratic capitalization is deranged.

The biggest difficulty I have with the irregular caps issues is I assume the writer intends to be provocative or annoying even though I may not have sufficient evidence to support that opinion. It’s a knee jerk reaction on my part. So I try to catch myself and try to figure out what they mean or intend—-are the caps for the reader or the writer; do they convey emphasis, anger, contempt, satire; just what do you really mean? In any case, it’s safer to assume they don’t have a better way to express themselves.

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[wsn00b]

I’d happily pay my current fed tax rate, 10% income tax, 2% property tax, 10% consumption/sales tax and $5 a gallon that includes an overdue gas tax and take no deductions. Except, the government is currently at all levels is full of petty politicians that have zero leadership or vision (this goes for all parties). I don’t think they are capable of efficiently executing what is required. I’m not saying we hand over everything to corporations. We need better leadership.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by wsn00b.

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[JoB]

wsnoob
we agree. we need better leadership

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[JoB]

JTB..
i try
and i will consider emoticons since my dry wit is often misunderstood

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[jonfsutter]

Redblack, Thank you for your learned comments. Of course we cannot commend you personally because you are anonymous. I do not think you would speak to me in person with the same tone as you have written. You are probably to PC to do so.

Redblack and Skeeter fail to realize that increased value of property does not mean increased revenue to the property owner unless they sell the property. 13.5 % increase in 2016 coupled with an expected 20 % increase in 2017 can be very hard for anyone to budget working for wages or on a fixed income. People will be priced out of their homes. Some will end up on the street under I-5 in the jungle.

JanS, Blog or rant; I do not know. I was just trying to have a discussion about what I see as our cost of living getting out of control and local government wasting funds involved in projects where basically we are throwing good money to bad investments. Mean while we are ignoring our roads, education, creating traffic nightmares, harboring criminals while telling the police that they are cruel.

Joanne Brayden, Thank you for using your real name and understanding that landlords need to recover costs. Most renters think they do not have to pay when they vote for another initiative to be paid for by property taxes. You have the picture.

dhg, I have worked around gay people all my life. I have no problem. I just do not care to have their life philosophy thrown in our face daily by a mayor who is fully concentrating on that segment of life and ignoring other more important problems. Do not tell us that the emphasis on the Gay community by the City of Seattle has cost nothing. Seafair is a big money maker for the city.

To all: The best fuel economy from today’s cars is at 40-45 miles per hour. Installing Bus Bulbs, going from 4 lanes to two, reducing speed limits from 35 MPH to 25 MPH is an environmental problem. In addition, if one expands the Lead Time between two points, one expands the Work in Progress. Meaning the longer it takes to get from A to B the more cars will be on the road at any given point in time. So we are polluting the air and we creating traffic nightmares and destroying commerce.

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[JoB]

jonfsutter

” reducing speed limits from 35 MPH to 25 MPH is an environmental problem”

i would have to do the math on that one since fuel consumption is often dependant upon speed..
and in our family’s case in whether the person driving is the slow and steady turtle wins the race style or the hurry up and wait style…
depending on who is driving our car averages a 3 to 5 mpg difference in mileage… even when average miles per hour remains consistent.

but i am pretty sure that human beings are far more likely to survive an unintended interaction with an automobile (getting hit by one) if that car is going 25 not 35.

i am positive there is substantial data on that one.

also.. i am not gay.. but the notion that gays or gay gatherings don’t support the economy of this city is absurd.

I live across the street from one of the groups of people who build floats for gay pride and have witnessed first hand the dollars and time that are spent producing those floats.. not to mention the food and drink consumed before, during and after the event. Every one of those dollars are spent in our local economy.

You choose Seafair? I find the float builders across the street more entertaining than the pirates.. which is why this city supports so many different events .. something for everyone.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by JoB.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by JoB.

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[williamf64]

Wow.. What a compassionate group.
Personal attacks and of course the Elitist Liberals making Fun Of CapITaliZatiOn. and speel’in. But, of course anyone that might have a problem with ” Letters n Such ” are more than likely a product of our FAILED edumica-shun system.
The same EdumiKation system that Liberals oppose any change too for any reason. No performance requirements , No reviews, No new procedures or overhaul of any sort just more money that’s it. After all the U.S taxpayer is getting a Fantastic return on our investment by spending the most in the world per Student and getting what… ? The 22nd best Education ?
Only in Liberal-ville with the use of Liberal Math can you pay the MOST -per- student in the World and get the 22nd best in performance and somehow that is a ” Great ” return on Investment. Brilliant !
The Liberal solution to everything is simply MORE money. That is it ! But, in the real world where there is thing called ” Accountability ” you simply can’t do a crappy job on something and turn and look at you Boss ,Investor, Banker or Customer and say …” Sure we did a crappy job but if you lend, allocate or pay us more money we will do a better job. Well maybe if it works out that way”.
It comes down to the fact that Liberals are a group of Elitists that know how our society should be run and anyone that argues against there Ideology, questions there decisions or demands for more money are just unenlightened, uneducated Haters & Racists that need to be ignored or pushed out of the way ” for the good of the collective” To use a Hugo Chavez-ism.
It is a bit funny how we don’t hear much praise of Venezuela like we used too ? Kshama Sawant’s philosophy is right in line with Chavez so I’m wondering why we don’t hear the praise that we used to hear about O’l Hugo ? After his leftist policies that were praised by Sean Penn and many others. Who needs food to eat anyway ?

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[JoB]

williamf64

if you want the best education in the world you might try applying real market forces to attract the best teachers in the world… of course you would have to raise their pay to do that.

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[redblack]

jon: i give it like i get it. if i saw you in public making exaggerated claims about taxation without representation, i probably would engage you in polite conversation… unless you were yelling and waving a gun around (which is how i picture betty453.)

by the way, PC is another way of saying polite. so, yes, i was raised to be polite, but not to suffer bullies.

as far as my anonymity goes, the internet is a big place, and it’s chock full o’nuts. i have met other forum posters, and i’m pretty sure they would tell you that i’m a nice guy. but i am an introvert, by default. i’m not on social media of any kind because i don’t like complete strangers knowing my business, for one thing. for another, i keep in touch with family just fine without facebook.

why do you care who i am, anyway? let’s discuss ideas, not each other.

so, back to the ideas:

yes, i know you don’t get magical cash when your home’s value increases. but i think for most (obviously not all) homeowners in seattle, the booming economy and increasing business revenue have also increased wages and hours worked. i’m a union hod carrier, and i’m currently having my most productive year since i started doing this 25 years ago. i’m not struggling with taxes. bills to corporations are far worse.

i can’t speak for those on fixed incomes.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 11 months ago by redblack.

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[redblack]

aaand another thing. conservatives looooove to complain about taxation, especially when it comes to helping “lazy” poor people.

then, when there’s a crisis in human services – namely seattle’s problem with homelessness – they demand that the very government they’re busy trying to hamstring do something about [insert outrage here] right now!

how does one reconcile those two schools of thought?

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[Author]

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