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October 26, 2011 at 11:32 am #738316
redblackParticipantrich: define “socialist.”
October 26, 2011 at 12:47 pm #738317
metrognomeParticipantredblack — anyone who’s not a billionaire.
HMC Rich — funny how you blame so much on Obama who’s been in office less than three years and give a free pass to Dubya who had eight years to screw this country (incl signing the first stimulus bill …). You mention Solandrya … how about wasted billions for no-bid contracts to Blackwater and Haliburton for the Middle East and any number of Republican-owned companies for Katrina clean-up (heck of a job, Brown Nose!!) How about all the CofC-sponsored attack ads on anything or anyone who was perceived as ‘non-business’. How about the Republican-controlled for-profit insurance companies jacking up their rates just to make Obamacare look bad. How about all the Republican-controlled corporations who refuse to spend their more than adequate cash reserves to hire needed employees in the hopes that the high unemployment rate will keep Obama from a second term.
And, just for fun, how about Richard Millstone Nixon and Spiro T. Agnew … what a pair of crooks.
October 26, 2011 at 2:34 pm #738318
SmittyParticipant“their sole purpose is to make money. period. end of argument. and hiring human beings who demand living wages and/or benefits is contrary to cost-cutting and profit-taking. as such, their money is better spent in attacking government regulations, taxation, labor laws, and collective bargaining with vast sums of money, lobbyists, lawyers, and big-media PR blitzes.”
So is this just a recent phenomenon over the last four years? Big and small business hired millions b/t 2001 and 2007. NOW they are greedy? Are you saying this will never change unless we force them to hire via regulation? How will that work? Why did they hire before?
(how to you copy and paste someone’s post like you did mine?)
October 26, 2011 at 5:30 pm #738319
kootchmanMemberGo back in the time machine, Congressman would openly trade trade railroad stocks on the House and Senate floor. See the Credit Mobilier scandals. RR stocks manipulations, graft, bribe, gave rise to the “Wall Street” scandals of the era and enter the age of the Great Robber Barons and the eventual rise of the 17th amendment. Who could forget the Keating 5? The great S&L scam. Well, at least it was bi-partisan! See both sides of aisle can co=operate after all! 4 Democrats and1 Republican. It was shocking .. but we so used to hearing one campaign bundler after another is getting TARP, stimulus, loan garuntees we aren’t even fazed.. and this administration is so over the top he makes the K5 club look like litttle Mouskateers. Small example George Kaiser/Solyndra. Remember Bobby Baker?
You want to tax more to send to these guys? It’s not the uber wealthy that are corrupting… it’s the uber wealthy paying off the corrupt, who promptly reciprocate. Until liberals recognize, not as a side bar, but the heart of the issue, this corruption is only possible with the active participation of the executive and legislative branches. They are out soliciting bribes..Bellaggio 32K per plate fund raiser? I saw stimulus one go directly to political payoffs.. keep the wealth on the sidelines…it does less damage then in the hands of the federal government.
You will either concede a flat tax, a VAT, or we will merrily continue down the same path. More money to the federal machine means more mouths to feed in perpetual cycles of increased taxes. And not needy mouths either… no, the funds never get to that level. Too much is skimmed off the top.
If you as a citizen can’t read or understand your tax code, how are you supposed to provide intelligent citizen oversight? Just hand the job over to Jim McDermott? How;s that working for ya?
Stop bleating for more waste, fraud, and abuse. We have a spending problem. That is why we have 16 trillion in deficits. Did Solyndra help ya?
October 26, 2011 at 5:46 pm #738320
kootchmanMemberHey Jan…. they also gave The Messiah the Nobel Peace prize? Kinda ironic isn’t it? Britain too was plagued to by the “Oxford” elitism and liberalism… academics who teach and preach social and economic iberalism from the Ivy League. Took the iron lady to undo years of labor party pandering and restore the pound sterling.. which at the moment is the the strongest currency in the EU..instead of piling on more an more debt..they went into austerity budgeting….while we? we pile on more… while Sarkozy is begging them to bail out french banks, buy socialist debt bonds from Greece, Spain, Itlay….. why are you so awed by them? Why I think I will trot out Milton Friedman… Noble Prize winner, Univ of Chicago Professor… you can have another alter to bow down to. “Plugman” is an idealogue, never let reality get in the way of a good social agenda.. and if Obama is the Nobel Peace Prize laureate…oh god help us… kind gives ya clue that the Nobel selection process is a bit tilted towards socialism… it is after all, Sweden. The prize in Physics goes to the first person who finds a “socialist” meaning in supersymetry
October 26, 2011 at 5:54 pm #738321
kootchmanMemberAt least Blackwater and Haliburton made profits and paid dividends..and have out jobs. eh? (cynical observation) We got some of it back. Let’s see GM do the same…or our newest investment, building electric cars in Finland. This is good metrgnome… so the next Republican President can spend 4 years blaming Obama? That’s our national plan for recovery? Seems to be. You do note that France has scrapped mandatory hiring, it failed, the mandatory 36 hour work week, it failed, no layoff policy, it failed.. and France has lived with unemployment in excess of 8 per cent for decades… there are no republicans in the Dubya rah rah rah corner that I know…it was painful… but you can do it too… Obama is an empty suit. Admit it and the pain will go away.
October 26, 2011 at 6:36 pm #738322
JanSParticipantyou just crack me up…defending Haliburton and Blackwater..and pretending like 2000-2008 didn’t happen…
spending problem? how about a revenue problem…
October 26, 2011 at 7:49 pm #738323
kootchmanMemberI said cynical observation. No I have not ignored the eight years. In no post will you find my approval of Dubya or his spending. You keep saying I ignored the years… but you do that a lot… if ya keep saying it, maybe the facts will change? Blaming Bush does not make Obama better..and it doesn’t deflect the blame for the incompetence of his presidency. Only in Seattle would we hear,… I spend more than make by 40 per cent, my credit rating is falling, I need to charge more to get out of this. Cut spending.
October 26, 2011 at 10:07 pm #738324
timeslidParticipantI suspect that much of this discussion and for that matter previous ones are blown out by “paid bloggers who feed on partisan cash”.
http://dailycaller.com/2010/08/23/true-stories-of-bloggers-who-secretly-feed-on-partisan-cash/
October 26, 2011 at 11:23 pm #738325
JanSParticipantKman…I say increase revenue..and CHANGE spending…
October 26, 2011 at 11:32 pm #738326
JoBParticipantKootch…
You do realize that haliburton and blackwater made those profits by ripping you ..the America taxpayer ..off..don’t you?
October 27, 2011 at 12:10 am #738327
SmittyParticipantSorry to keep posting this, but between 200-2008 it was NOT a revenue problem.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=200
October 27, 2011 at 12:55 am #738328
JoBParticipantSmitty ..
The numbers on that chart are too tiny for me to analyze on my smart phone but did your assessment of those figures account for the fact that the cost for the war in Iraq simply wasn’t accounted for until Obama insisted it needed to be included or that the tab for the bailout W ordered hadn’t hit the books yet either?
Use your common sense. If expenses go up and you give a tax cut to the top income earners .. you have a revenue problem even if you defer putting theexpenses
October 27, 2011 at 1:43 am #738329
SmittyParticipantJan mentioned it was a revenue problem. It wasn’t. Revenues increased. It was (as you suggest) a spending problem.
Tax revenues INCREASED after the Bush tax cuts.
That’s the only point I was making as conventional wisdom is that federal tax revenues decreased after the Bush tax cuts.
October 27, 2011 at 2:23 am #738330
metrognomeParticipantkootchman — no, the next Republican president in 20 years can continue to blame Bush and to thank Obama and the two subsequent two-term Democratic presidents for all their work in repairing the damage.
If you think Shrubya doesn’t deserve the blame, starting with the day his term ended, then he doesn’t deserve any credit for anything you may think he did right.
Where is Bush, by the way. He spent his National Guard tour flying a barstool in Bama; he spent his presidency pretending he was a common man who preferred to clear bruuush on his ‘ranch’ … wonder what he’s pretending to do now???
October 27, 2011 at 4:58 am #738331
JoBParticipantSmitty
After the cuts and before the crash fed tax revenues did increase but not nearly equal to the increase in the transfer of wealth to the top 1%
Nor did they increase at the rate of spending …spending that was directly fueling the increased income distribution.
What a thorny mess.
The question is..did the foxes in the hen house really expect profiteers to police themselves and were they really stupid enough to believe their own accounting misdirection or were they actually trying to create the collapse they engineered.
You decide for yourself …
but I am betting I give them more credit than you.
I read their think tank papers that laid this all out decades ago.
October 27, 2011 at 5:01 am #738332
JoBParticipantSmitty
After the cuts and before the crash fed tax revenues did increase but not nearly equal to the increase in the transfer of wealth to the top 1%
Nor did they increase at the rate of spending …spending that was directly fueling the increased income distribution.
What a thorny mess.
The question is..did the foxes in the hen house really expect profiteers to police themselves and were they really stupid enough to believe their own accounting misdirection or were they actually trying to create the collapse they engineered.
You decide for yourself …
but I am betting I give them more credit than you.
I read their think tank papers that laid this all out decades ago.
October 27, 2011 at 1:39 pm #738333
SmittyParticipant“After the cuts and before the crash fed tax revenues did increase”
Thank you. That’s all I was trying to point out.
October 27, 2011 at 3:44 pm #738334
JoBParticipantSmitty,
Yes, revenues did temporarily increase, but that fact does not support your claim that we don’t/didn’t have a revenue problem because revenue did not increase enough to offset unreported spending.
We generate revenue now…
October 27, 2011 at 5:26 pm #738335
Betty TMemberJoB
Would you be available to drive me Saturday to take lunch to Nickelsville? Don’t know how else to contact you. I’ve lost my driver and can’t ask Ellen as would be too much with her daughter and grandson coming to Trick-or-Treat at the junction.
October 28, 2011 at 7:06 am #738336
kootchmanMembermetrognome…sure he will. He will repair the economy.. keep chanting it. Do you have any idea when he is going to start? We are all waiting, and waiting. Well, a tacit agreement Smitty..well done. Now how did that transfer of wealth affect the overspending? I don’t get the relationship. Dubya was out drinking with his pot smoking buddy Willy Clinton? Or the hundreds of thousands of our current leadership who took deferments. He was a qualified “Thud” pilot in an Air National Guard Unit… you sound like a “birther”… And again, that is relevant to the issues at hand how? You are reaching deep up a dark place for that one.
October 28, 2011 at 7:08 am #738337
JanSParticipantwow…like Obama has a magic wand, and the Repubs in the house and senate are cooperating with him – LOLOLOLOL…..
October 28, 2011 at 7:32 am #738338
kootchmanMemberOK Jan.. the first two years when he had an absolute majority.. both houses of congress? He did so badly he lost one in mid terms… and the Senate ain’t playing any longer.. with his own party giving him the bird. The mid terms were a referendum .. to stop him dead in his tracks. Now a smarter man would get the hint… but not him..now we are getting lectures about our drive, our will, our rah rah spirit… sounds like the ‘Malaise” speech… is he running out of people to blame? He got his first stimulus package… which he said would get us under 8% … and unemployment rocketed to 91/2… any more cooperation and we would be at 12 per cent…
October 28, 2011 at 4:48 pm #738339
JoBParticipantKootchman
Obama’s biggest mistake was believing that the Republicans were more interested in the national welfare than they were in defeating him.
With any luck he has finally figured that one out.
October 28, 2011 at 4:50 pm #738340
JoBParticipant -
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