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September 19, 2012 at 7:42 am #771073
JoBParticipantKootch..
First point. That 70% of taxes and 60% of income is based on earned income which is only a small portion of the income stream for big earners but total income for small earners.. and for entrepreneurs it is adjusted income.. After all costs of earning are deducted.. while small earners seldom get to deduct any of the costs associated with earning their income.
This is NOT a level playing field.
Second..we did pay for those bridges.. but we don’t have lobbyists looking out for our interests like big business does .
Our tax money was spent protecting their bottom lines not our infrastructure.
September 19, 2012 at 10:08 am #771074
kootchmanMemberHere we go again.. one more time. I paid taxes on earned income.. religiously. After I paid those taxes… then I created some unearned income. They can deduct business related expenses … open a friggin business! That’s why we have no one doing it and there are no jobs. And I reread that section.. it was total income from all sources. The idea is to get people to invest in businesses… so the jobs follow. That’s the reason when we double tax earnings… the second go around is less painful. Yes you do have lobby groups.. why pretend you don’t? ACORN, Big Labor, PP, untold numbers of them. So do we. The right to petition the government… did you look at the top 20 campaign donors? One corporation, one independent business group… the rest? All labor …those adjusted earnings are the goods and services we purchase…. aka jobs. Be interesting to see how Boeing would do if there were no business flyers..!!! Or hotel and service workers. Of course they are adjusted earnings… we don’t do business as a public service we do it to make money. Playing field isn’t level? When was it ever?
September 19, 2012 at 12:23 pm #771075
redblackParticipantOf course they are adjusted earnings… we don’t do business as a public service we do it to make money.
great! and since you’re trying to make more than the average joe who knows the meaning of “enough,” you will be taxed accordingly. sometimes multiple times.
you’re right. the playing field isn’t level and never has been. your guys tried to level it and have come pretty close, but we’re trying to tilt it back again.
you don’t deserve favors from the rest of us as a reward for running a business.
the inverse of that is that we’re going to feed people who are starving with food stamps, keep them from dying with medicare/medicaid/SSI, and give them some walking around money when they’re laid off.
check yourself. it’s not like any of those benefits – oh, sorry, entitlements – will get you a bentley, a bottle of scotch, and a steak.
September 19, 2012 at 3:44 pm #771076
kootchmanMemberWe do support safety nets. we don’t support encoding them as a way of life. Of course we want to make more than the average Joe redblack…a lot of us missed the first two or three go arounds… I spent the first 4 months of my Seattle life in a surplus school bus. I never contemplated it would be a permanent condition.
Here’s the thing about that tilted playing field. It’s not a zero sum game my esteemed man… you getting yours does not mean I don’t get mine. Every republican I know is deeply concerned about public education. The statistics are not encouraging. We need healthy kids, well fed, lead by great teachers, taking a relevant curriculum AND a full understanding that investing in oneself is going to be a hallmark of their lives…education is a lifelong pursuit. We support merit pay. Vouchers and charter schools where needed. And they are needed. The key is not that you will be given a level playing field. No one gets that,. We want kids to have the tools to level that playing field. When they see an obstruction, they have the confidence and the ability to move it. Speaking of Scotch… and I will refer it often… you are still in arrears … on the VP bet! I want your kids, mine, and every kid, including the “no fault” undocumented ones to move mountains. It’s what we do at our best. The economy needs to grow brother, we are down to the last chance… and that challenge is on the shoulders of our younger citizens, Amen?
September 20, 2012 at 12:17 am #771077
DirtyCoyoteMemberFive reasons Obama must be defeated.
1.A hypocrite to say the least. At least the Republicans come right at you.
2.Obama will bankrupt the country . He won’t tell you he did it though
3.Obama isn’t from Hawaiia
4.His mom and dad never rocka and rolled
5.You can’t trust anyone that spent time in the Illinois political system.
September 20, 2012 at 12:22 am #771078
NFiorentiniMemberAlright already. We get it. He’s black.
Let’s move on. Can we find some *real* reasons Obama is so bad? Not any of these Faux News Manufactured Outrage reasons?
September 20, 2012 at 1:32 am #771079
DirtyCoyoteMemberYep you said it he’s black..
September 20, 2012 at 1:49 am #771080
KenParticipantWadda Maroon
— B. Bunny
September 20, 2012 at 4:32 am #771081
redblackParticipantDC:
5.You can’t trust anyone that spent time in the Illinois political system.
yeah. that abraham lincoln was a real a-hole.
September 20, 2012 at 5:35 am #771082
JoBParticipantKootch
You talk The talk but when it comes to the walk its all about the bottom line… what’s it gonna cost and how Will it make money.
You talk about state’s rights. There is no larger state’s rights issue than education. So show me the results.
Truth is that where republicans are in charge public education suffers.
September 20, 2012 at 5:42 am #771083
JoBParticipantDirty coyote
Where is that sarcasm icon when you need it?
Or was that just drunken frat rat bluster?
Funny thing. You can recognize the bluster even when you don’t speak the language. I shared a subway with a pack last night. I wish we had half the public transportation system to wisk our drunk kids home.
September 20, 2012 at 5:42 am #771084
DirtyCoyoteMemberIts tough being a Republican on this board..
September 20, 2012 at 6:07 am #771085
JoBParticipantDirty coyote
I think its tough being a republican anywhere these days.
Both of our parties have been taken over by a bunch of self serving a-holes.. but you really have my sympathy because yours has been taken over by extremists who are so caught up in their righteousness that they believe the end justifies any means.. and I sincerely hope it bites them in the backside.
This is not the American way.
September 20, 2012 at 2:42 pm #771086
DirtyCoyoteMemberLincoln wouldn’t be proud of his Democratic counterparts today if he were alive. I’m sure he’s happy in his grave right now.
September 20, 2012 at 2:45 pm #771087
TanDLParticipantYou do know that Lincoln was a Republican, don’t you?
September 20, 2012 at 3:01 pm #771088
kootchmanMemberDC? Umm I am thinking is a poser? New show up, with a few zings I smell an agent provocateur. A dirty opportunistic scavenger? No JoB the American Education system fell apart when it was hijacked by liberals.. from the university down to grade school. Ya gonna tout the Chicago and WA DC systems as the glowing example of Democratic control of education? The ONLY reform that stuck was the state mandated extended hours.. pretty much the Chicago school system avoided any accountabilty, no merit raises. and if Chicago has to hire new teachers the union sends the body.. not the interview by the principal or any other merit screening process.
Here ya go… best HS in the country… private, charter, and public schools. … damn… Texas has the most in the top 200. It depends on how willing and how much local districts are willing to accept the status quo. But do note that more of the highest achieving schools are in republican states… so that theory is shot to hell… another anecdotal JoBism accepted as gospel. I did see ONE public school in the top 20 from WA state..
http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/national-rankings/page+2
Ya have to be a committed to reform, not status quo accepting community to get great schools.
See… a A NYC public school… not a charter, not a magnet, not a Manhattan school… Flushing NY… with a tough as nails mayor and school superintendant who is taking on unions.
Townsend Harris High School is ranked 8th within New York. Students have the opportunity to take Advanced Placement® coursework and exams. The AP® participation rate at Townsend Harris High School is 100 percent. The student body makeup is 30 percent male and 70 percent female, and the total minority enrollment is 72 percent. Townsend Harris High School is 1 of 403 high schools in the New York City Public Schools.
Obama promised in 2008 a revival in public education, options, charter schools… what did we get? Nothing. Not a damn thing. Republicans would support charter schools, vouchers, merit pay, all sorts of things hard left flapping wings won’t.
September 21, 2012 at 6:21 am #771089
JoBParticipantKootch
I talk public school system stats and you answer with cherry picked high schools full of high achievers.
Why would you do that?
Could it be because you can’t make your case any other way?
I could tell you what my debate coach said about that but he wasn’t terribly PC and I suspect you would take it as a personal insult.
It just bores me.
September 21, 2012 at 8:25 am #771090
kootchmanMemberBecause your stats are culled. You could say for instance, Ill.. has the highest SAT scores in the nation, And, you would be right, But Illinois has a participation rate of 5%. WA, DC is dead last, with a participation rate of 79% per cent. So, by your “stats” the statement that
“Truth is that where republicans are in charge public education suffers.”
Is neither true or a stat. It’s that old gut feeling or wish again.
Simple enough to take ALL the nations HS… and who is doing the best? I didn;t cherry pick a thing.. I even nodded to the achievements of a traditional, urban, majority minority population school that joins the elite ranks. You like to call achievement and success “cherry picking’? I didn’t do the picking ma’am. I just linked the results. The smarter course of action I would think.. is to ask, how did these, public, private, charter schools get those results? What is there to emulate? We will never know as long as democrats resist change. You can’t slavishly allow so much failure to perpetuate itself … the school systems have to increase the productivity of the work force or the pie will no longer grow. No one knows better than American business we have to make impressive gains and changes. You don’t keep machines on the production line that spit out 40% defective parts and destroy the raw material and buy more models of the same machine. Maybe that is the problem, ad hoc debates with NO stats does not prove a point. It’s simple… those are the highest achieving HS in the country.. and how they are distributed is not indicative that democratic states produce the best education outcomes… or republicans produce the worst outcomes. Did your debate coach teach you statistics too. or warn you not to use them if you can’t back up statements like
“Truth is that where republicans are in charge public education suffers.”
I will use the metric of student achievement to evaluate “public education suffering”… not teacher pensions, salaries, length of work day, days worked per year.
September 21, 2012 at 8:32 am #771091
kootchmanMemberOne of may favorite student comments on their school… and its top 50 ranking… public school too JoB..
The fact that we didn’t get #1 this year upsets me, not because of the competition with Oxford, but because that’s the primary reason my parents FORCED me to go there, now it’s like all gone. Whitney made my high school life a living hell with the work load and teachers giving like 2 hours of homework from every class. I still partied here and there, but I know I would have enjoyed going to a normal HS a lot more,
September 21, 2012 at 8:32 am #771092
JanSParticipanteveryone else is always wrong but you, aren’t they? Wow…what a wonderfully smart guy you are.
September 21, 2012 at 8:44 am #771093
kootchmanMemberShe can defend herself…. re-read her post… 67. Then JaN… do tell who airs the “I am always right” with such fervor? I thought you were leaving us?
Indeed joB asked… “show me the results” and I did. But she didn;t “like” the results, therefore they are not correct?…. too too funny.
September 21, 2012 at 1:53 pm #771094
miwsParticipantI thought you were leaving us?
Disappointed, because in the kootchworld of everything being a competition, you failed in defeating one from the other side?
Must be a blast entering a public restroom at the same time as you, and vying for that last open urinal!
Mike
September 21, 2012 at 1:54 pm #771095
miwsParticipantSeptember 21, 2012 at 3:54 pm #771096
kootchmanMemberClippity cloppity…
September 21, 2012 at 4:44 pm #771097
WorldCitizenParticipantI think it’s totally reasonable to criticize the way public education is being handled. I don’t think unions are the sole cause for the failing system, but to say union reform isn’t needed would be short sighted. Collective bargaining has created such huge gains for the working class in this country, it should never be done away with. There is something to be said for merit based pay, though, and the unions seem dead set against it. This seems (to me) unacceptable.
Why is it not acceptable to criticize unions when it is sometimes warranted? I fully back the right to collectively bargain for worker’s rights and safety and benefits and retirement and FAIR pay. And look, I’m not going to be so dense as to say teacher’s salaries are breaking the fiscal back of the public sector. (In many ways I think they should be making much more than they are) but the idea of tenure and unreasonable job security for failing teachers seems like a HORRIBLE idea.
Look I know the problem is complex. Families have an undeniable influence on how a student will perform in school. Teachers can’t do much to change that problem so are in effect ham-strung in their job to educate the children of uneducated, or poor children who don’t have the supervision at home to re-enforce what is being covered in the classroom. We should be able to develop a system that is flexible enough to address these problems on an area by area and teacher by teacher basis and make exceptions for outside influences beyond the teacher’s control.
But I would surmise (no links to point to…sorry) there are plenty of teachers in areas where these problems are not so prevalent who are undeserving of job security. The same system that recognizes the need to make exceptions for poor/undereducated areas of the country should be able to recognize poor teacher performance in more affluent areas. There should be consequences for doing a poor job. There should be merit pay for those who excel (given their relatively unique individual situations of course) at advancing the student body. Protection by the unions of teachers who constantly underperform should not happen.
The system is broken and failing us in many ways. There are some amazing ways it is working, though, and public education is one of the most important investments this country can make for its future. Unions can help. They can hurt too. Reform always hurts some, but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen.
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