Home › Forums › West Seattle Schools › TFA (Teach for America) in SPS, time to share opinion w/board
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October 31, 2010 at 7:26 pm #596843
me on 28th Ave SWParticipantHey WS
On the heels of the levy discussion I thought there might be some interest in this. The Seattle Public School Board has their Board of Directors Meeting this Wednesday November 3rd. Interestingly, they have added an agenda item that is pretty important. Here is the link http://www.littleurl.net/e292fc to the agenda, scroll down to D.3 (I don’t know what happened to D.1. either). The board will vote on whether to allow TFA “teachers” to apply for teaching positions beginning in January 2011. While I love the idea of TFA http://www.littleurl.net/e84e0c in theory, I personally would not want a college graduate (non-teaching degree) with 5 weeks of “training” to lead my children’s classroom. Last I recall, we don’t have a shortage of teachers (degreed and certified) applying for jobs in Seattle either. If you have concerns as well, now would be the time to let the board know. Here is the link where you can click to get their email addresses http://www.littleurl.net/3e07e1. It is not as if this is being widely publicized. Not here to debate, just wanted to get the word out. You can come to your own conclusions… I will post this under West Seattle Schools forums as well.
October 31, 2010 at 9:35 pm #706967
JoBParticipanti doubt i can go to the school board meeting
i am not doing evenings well right now
though after what i have learned here albut their shenanigans
i would like to…
i will email them my concerns.
we are in complete agreement on this one.
October 31, 2010 at 11:06 pm #706968
me on 28th Ave SWParticipantJoB,
The meetings themselves are tough to stomach, even if you are feeling great so I completely understand. Sometimes for fun, I will watch them on TV and talk back to the screen. I think emails are a great way to go for most of us.
: )
November 1, 2010 at 2:39 am #706969
JoBParticipantme on 28th Ave SW
one of the things i like best about aging is the permission i gave myself to be a curmudgeon…
believe me.. i wish i was up to going:)
until i get better i will just have to settle for pithy emails.
November 1, 2010 at 2:28 pm #706970
BigPhilParticipantYou lost me at your double-quoting of teachers;
‘whether to allow TFA “teachers”‘
I’m not sure you have a clue what TFA is or does, and I’m doubly sure that you have no idea what kind of teacher shortage truly exists in Seattle.
STEM teachers in particular are desperately needed. The only other option for someone who wants to teach is to rack up 30 or 40 grand in debt to get a MA in C&I or Education and then take a job which at its highest runs about $55k in Seattle. Asking people to be in debt for two decades to take a low-pay high-stress job is surely the way to do it…
TFA offers a very good way for working professionals and recent college grads to get into teaching without first going massively in debt. *YOUR* schools might seem great, but public school isn’t just about your kids. The poorest districts need teachers the most, and they simply can’t afford someone who has 40 grand of debt and expects to make a livable wage.
I might sound like a shill for TFA, but I have only had contact with them in the sense that I was offered a spot in their program and declined after seeing just how terribly other teachers view TFA teachers and how poorly they’re remunerated. I also looked into the conventional path and the $40k in debt isn’t an exaggeration. I opted to stay in my tech job simply because TFA was the best option and it’s still not a very good option for someone who already has degrees and doesn’t want to become destitute for their life’s passion.
November 1, 2010 at 4:29 pm #706971
JoBParticipantBig Phil…
Your argument is persuasive…
at a time when there are so many who are looking for a second act in their careers… it seems only logical to facilitate certification for people who make the choice to teach…
but… here is where i get stuck.
how many of those people who would choose teaching are going to be willing to accept the low entry wages of public teachers in poor districts to follow their passion?
Most of those i know who considered that route either made the same decision you did or chose to teach in private schools where the pay is better and the certification needs less strict.
What sounds great in theory doesn’t work out so well in practice.
The reality is that this change in standards has been used in other districts to break teacher’s unions and lower teacher’s wages..
while still leaving poor schools understaffed.
I would love to see a compromise that facilitates older experienced workers transitioning into the classroom.. but i don’t this is it.
November 1, 2010 at 7:01 pm #706972
DPMemberIs having a teaching degree what makes someone a good teacher?
Go into any school. You’ll find some great teachers, some average teachers, and some lousy teachers.
They all have degrees.
The TFA model has been used successfully in other areas, particularly medicine. For example, foreign medical-school grads looking to extend their visas can do that by agreeing to work for a number of years in certain poor and underserved areas. Economically strapped grads looking to get out of some college debt can do the same thing. It’s all verifiable, so if a newly minted doctor bugs out of his agreement, he loses the benefit that came with it.
I see no reason why TFA couldn’t help with teacher shortages (supposing that such shortages are real, which is a matter of great debate). If there’s a chronic shortage of, say, science teachers at, say, Chief Sealth, then that seems like a great place to try out a TFA-program teacher who got fast-tracked on certification. If the teacher can’t cut it, then fast-track him right back to curb. ;-)
What’s the alternative? Wait for the market to sort it out? I don’t think so.
If it’s a choice between a TFA teacher and NO teacher or an overfilled class, I say go with the TFA teacher.
Is that “union busting”? Is it dumbing down? Sounds more like simple pragmatism to me.
November 1, 2010 at 7:10 pm #706973
JoBParticipantTFA as i understand it in this instance…
is not tied to an apprenticeship in an under-served school.
they were used in districts i have lived in to replace higher wage teachers
or to fill in during strikes.
November 4, 2010 at 12:39 am #706974
DPMemberHere’s some good info on the TFA program from today’s Seattle Times.
Note that TFA is supported by Seattle Public Schools. The article does not say that SPS wants to tie TFA teachers to an apprenticeship in an underderserved school or teaching specialty; however, there are strong indications that TFA teachers would only be used where there had been some difficulty filling a slot. One of TFA’s main organizational goals, after all, is to help students.
From the article (with my own emphasis added):
Teach for America was started in 1990 by Wendy Kopp, then a young college graduate, and has grown steadily. Its overall goal is to help eliminate the gap in achievement between ethnic groups, and it wants its members to work in low-income communities.
. . .
Despite their reluctance to commit [to the standard TFA program], Seattle administrators say they are confident they would have places for 20 to 25 Teach for America teachers.
“We believe strongly that there will be positions open in our schools, because there always are,” said Holly Ferguson [director of policy and government relations for SPS].
Another thing to consider is that TFA teachers are expected to work toward a permanent teaching certificate while they are teaching.
As far as TFA teachers being used to teach kids during a strike, you would probably get mixed reactions from both parents and kids on that. It’s a tough call.
I’m going to drop the author of this piece a line, asking her if there’s any hard data from SPS on teacher shortages.
November 5, 2010 at 8:57 pm #706975
gambaruParticipantYou’re right. TFA IS offensive to teachers. As a teacher who is caring, effective, AND in debt, I take horrible offense at the TFA program. I made the sacrifice to follow my passion. I spent 4 plus years spending hours and hours of working in practicums in a variety of school settings, and studying how the brain learns, multiple intelligences, teaching to different modalities effectively. I learned how to set up a classroom environment to be a safe place for children to take risks. I made the sacrifice of going in debt to be QUALIFIED at what I do in order to best serve my students. You are right that there are rotten teachers out there. There is no denying that. A good teacher will be the first to acknowledge it. However, a vigorous certification process is in place to “attempt” to weed out those incompetent. However, as in any field there will always be those that slip through or lose their passion.
Would you not be offended in your field, if after a crash course during their summer vacation, a basically “free” employee was hired not only to take the place of someone who is more qualified but is placed in the highest need area of your company? Give us a little credit.
There is NOT a teaching shortage in this area. I personally know of schools hiring teachers with master’s degrees as ASSISTANTS because there are not enough teaching jobs.
I am not completely opposed to unions; of course they have their place. However, it is difficult for a non-district teacher to break into public school districts. There are guidelines in place that district employees have first pick for a job before non-district teachers can apply. Therefore, in order to “get your foot in the door”, many teachers have to take 3/4 time positions which means pennies for pay, and no benefits for at least a year before they have a fighting chance at getting a fulltime position.
TFA undercuts qualified teachers who are already underpaid and puts them in the highest need schools with the most at risk students. IMHO, the money funding TFA should go towards subsidizing districts to hire QUALIFIED Staff.
November 5, 2010 at 9:51 pm #706976
yes2wsParticipantNovember 5, 2010 at 10:16 pm #706977
DPMemberThanks for your post, gambaru. It’s good to be getting this info directly from a teacher.
I heard back from the woman who wrote the recent Times piece on TFA. She told me that, according to Seattle Public Schools, there is actually no teacher shortage.
So I’m thinking, No teacher shortage? Then why TFA? .
If there is already a sufficient pool of fully qualified teachers from which to recruit, I see no need for SPS to open the process to those who aren’t fully qualified.
I watched the latest school board meeting and must say that I was impressed by the TFA teachers who spoke. In fact, most of these teachers were already teaching successfully in Seattle schools. However, I have to agree with gambaru on this. Hiring unqualified teachers (when there’s no teacher shortage) sends the wrong message to those who put in the extra time and money to get qualified.
JoB, I’ve also come around to your point of view on this. In this case, the TFA program smells like union busting.
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