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January 28, 2014 at 7:02 pm #803467
VBDParticipantIt has not officially “fallen”, but confidence in it certainly has. Most people I talk to do not trust that the social security system is adequate, or that it will truly survive as long as predicted.
And if you can live on social security payments alone, then you are living cheap, my friend.
January 28, 2014 at 7:07 pm #803468
wakefloodParticipantUm…well, part of the reason your friends are worried is because there’s been lots of folks who WANT the SS to be privatized (read stolen by Wall Street) who have worked very hard both as elected officials and the people who control them – to prevent reasonable measures from happening to secure its solvency indefinitely.
And frankly, I believe the OMB before I believe Wall St.
And I never implied that anyone could live on SS. I was responding to your implication that folks in the top 10% (that’s $250K+/yr.) are worried about getting their share of SS.
January 28, 2014 at 7:14 pm #803469
wakefloodParticipantAll this stuff is part of one big play and is easy to understand if you keep a simple fact in mind:
Greed never sleeps.
There’s no such thing as enough $. The monied interests will push every button, pull every lever, spend whatever it takes to secure more $. It’s what they do. It’s encouraged and protected by their own and anything that implies sharing is viewed with skepticism or downright derision. And the most interesting part to me is the self-reinforcing nature of it. No matter how it the $ was secured, even falling into it, those folks believe they EARNED every penny.
January 28, 2014 at 7:23 pm #803470
wakefloodParticipantAs Blankfein, the Chair of Goldman Sachs said in front of Congress: “We’re doing God’s work”.
So, what else does one need to know about motive?
January 28, 2014 at 9:18 pm #803471
skeeterParticipantSpeaking of a 65 foot cabin cruiser, the family went to the Seattle boat show last weekend. Everything can be financed!! Just $449/mo. Oh, yeah, that’s over 180 months. Your boat loan will be upside down for the next 14 years!! The only good news is basically all these boats are built in the U.S. so at least someone’s earning a paycheck.
January 28, 2014 at 9:33 pm #803472
wakefloodParticipantHa!, You might be a few years to young for this skeets, but I remember when a car loan was 3yrs.
They’d probably call security if you asked for that now. ;-)
Personally, I buy lease return cars or anything else I need that’s been purchased recently by folks who can’t afford to keep it. I usually pay cash or a very low interest card. I’ve saved many, many thousands over the last 15yrs. or so. (I guess I’m willing to not fill my nostrils with “new car smell”, aka toxic plastic off-gassing.) Ha!
January 29, 2014 at 3:59 pm #803473
JoBParticipantWe can change this you know.
i probably don’t have time to make a huge difference before i retire… since i am nearly there
but most of you do…
it’s time we refocused our national attention on issues that matter to us.
January 29, 2014 at 4:25 pm #803474
skeeterParticipantI’d like to make a difference JoB. But Wakeflood told me to go out and buy a new 65 foot boat. That’s going to take all my time.
January 29, 2014 at 5:01 pm #803475
wakefloodParticipantskeets, I’m sorry, I meant to respond to your post #66. I’ll take a stab here.
I’m a decade or so further down the path than you, it sounds like.
I’m a little behind my schedule for building the nest egg – my plan was essentially the same as yours albeit slightly less aggressive on the savings end – but I had a divorce in the middle that put a few kinks in the plan. In short, I’ll be hanging on to that high-stress gig another ten years longer than you may need to. :-)
Your plan sounds about as good as a plan can get. But therein lies the rub, my friend. It’s a plan. Things happen and you make contingencies and adjust as best you can.
If you can afford to get a supplemental health policy that takes away the potential gut punch of having an unforeseen health issue suck a big piece of that nest egg out, that’s a huge sigh of relief. And it’s also a rare luxury since many can’t afford it.
Who knows, maybe it’s like carrying an umbrella around, which means it never rains? I hope that for you…and all of us on this blog, frankly. And I say that knowing that a few of us here have already had some bad luck along the way. May that all be history, knock on wood. Goodness knows those events have implications that last a long time.
PS – I was half kidding about the bartender gig. I’d be good at it but like you, it would take a few years off my life, methinks! I’m hoping I can turn back to my creative skills and do furniture-making/woodworking/painting/sculpture to supplement income someday. Realistic? Who knows but as they say, if you can live your passion, it never seems like work.
January 29, 2014 at 5:04 pm #803476
wakefloodParticipantHe’s right, JoB, I did tell him that. But why anyone would take my advice is beyond me.
But if you do, skeets, I get the second best cabin when I come onboard for the San Juans cruise!
January 29, 2014 at 5:12 pm #803477
JoBParticipantskeeter..
if you did everything wakeflood told you this would be a much less interesting conversation :)
January 29, 2014 at 5:41 pm #803478
wakefloodParticipantHa! JoB, I think I can take offense to that short sentence in about 17 ways. ;-)
I’m choosing to only accept 13 of them tho’. :-)
January 29, 2014 at 7:01 pm #803479
JoBParticipanteasy wakeflood..
i only meant that if skeeter were willing to do what you told him there would be no differences of opinion to discuss :)
January 29, 2014 at 7:21 pm #803480
wakefloodParticipantWhich is what I was assuming, JoB. :-)
Was just taking the opportunity for some (un-obvious) faux-offense. You know, like when someone rails on about the left’s “War on Christmas”. ;-)
January 29, 2014 at 7:48 pm #803481
skeeterParticipantWF – thanks for your thoughts on post #84. Really helpful.
You make a good point about medical expenses. You are absolutely correct that medical expenses are a huge thing to consider when planning for retirement. Medicare doesn’t kick in until 65 and I don’t think I’ll be able to work that long (if my job even exists.) I guess my plan actually has a “Part III” that I didn’t tell you about. My wife is a federal employee. She started at a young age. Once she reaches her retirement age, both of us will be covered by her medical plan for the remainder of our lives. Sure, we have to pay part of the premium, but it’s small beans in comparison to the actual cost of the plan. Again, we are insanely blessed. I doubt 20% of workers have a retiree medical plan. But again – this plan has its unknowns. What if she leaves me? What if she is laid off? What if? What if? What if?
Sorry to hear about your divorce messing up your retirement/saving plan. I certainly believe you that a divorce would throw a wrench into even the best laid retirement plans. It happened to my Uncle who I’m pretty close to. He was able to recover financially but it took a long time and he had to work longer than he wanted to.
I could see the bartending gig as being enjoyable for the right type of person. Maybe that is you? I’ll visit and order a hipster beer.
January 30, 2014 at 1:59 am #803482
JoBParticipantskeeter..
even if she doesn’t leave you … what if our elected representative decide to balance the budget by simply changing the terms of your wife’s retirement?
us geezers started work under a system where employee wages and benefits got preferential treatment in bankruptcies… before creditors.
they changed that:(
January 30, 2014 at 7:43 pm #803483
skeeterParticipantThe last time the federal gov’t made major changes to the retirement program in 1986, they grandfathered existing employees under the “old” system. I am hopeful that they would continue with that precedent. But if they do take the retirement and medical benefits away retroactively then we’ll be in a worse position. One of us would have to work until we’re both 65 and covered by medicare.
January 30, 2014 at 7:50 pm #803484
JoBParticipantskeeter..
Ronnie was president in 1986
and republicans were still somewhat reasonable
though i personally don’t remember Ronnie fondly
nor do other small business owners he put out of business…
but in 1986 even corporate America was still mostly honoring their contracts with employees
this is 2014
republicans think winning any political point matters more than reasonable outcomes
Corporate America bankrupts to get out of it’s employee contracts
and trickle down economics has failed
as a plan.. backing Republicans at this point doesn’t seem the best way to achieve your outcome
January 30, 2014 at 8:55 pm #803485
dobroParticipantAccording to the Tea Party faction of the Repubs, your wife and all other federal employees are moochers who don’t deserve a fixed retirement plan any more than teachers, firefighters, and other moochers do.
January 30, 2014 at 9:15 pm #803486
skeeterParticipantThe post-1986 federal defined benefit plan is very scaled back for any federal employee hired after 1986 (which my wife was.) Nothing like the level of benefit offered to retired state workers. We would be okay if we lost it. I’m not saying I want to lose it. But we’d be okay.
The worst case scenario for us would be:
1. Social security no longer pays a retirement benefit. Even though we paid in for 30+ years, no payout.
2. Federal gov’t retroactively eliminates retirement plan for retirees. No more benefits paid.
3. Stock market crashes and never recovers. All of our investments and 401k balance worth zero.
4. Both of us laid off from our jobs.
5. Unemployment benefits have run out (or don’t exist.)
If all five of those things happen then we will literally be flat broke and have to move in with a family member if someone will take us. Then I’ll ask Wakeflood if he’ll hire me part-time at the bar where he’s working.
January 30, 2014 at 9:18 pm #803487
skeeterParticipantdobro, do you have a source for post #94? I hadn’t heard that the tea party was in favor of eliminating FERS (Federal Employee Retirement System.) Reagan heavily changed it in 1986 to minimize costs to the taxpayers. I would think the tea party likes FERS because it shifts a substantial amount of financial responsibility to the individual as opposed to the employer.
January 30, 2014 at 9:24 pm #803488
skeeterParticipantOops, never mind dobro. You are mostly correct.
Republicans Introduce Bill To Eliminate FERS Retirement For New Hires
I say “mostly” because they only want to eliminate it going forward, not retroactively.
January 31, 2014 at 12:10 am #803489
dobroParticipantThey are pretty much against anything gov’t can do to help the average person. Billions to the military (as long as it’s not for raising pay or benefits to soldiers), no problem. Billions to Homeland Security, the biggest boondoggle in American History- no problem. Health care=mooching. Retirement=mooching Food stamps=mooching EPA=job killing regulation food inspection=job killing regulation
Current-day Republicans are the most extremist political group of the last 100 years and, hopefully, have reached the end of their rope with the moderate majority of the people.
January 31, 2014 at 12:34 am #803490
retired60ParticipantPensions and Unions are a thing of the past, thanks to Us. When we had good jobs and few problems in the work place, we were ok. Then the Wealthy created rivals between “the Union workers and the private sector” They would say that the Unions got better retirements for those with less education, and that Unions were used by the Democrates to out spend Repubs. in elections. The wealthy only wanted to break the back of the Unions that gave us 5 day wrk. weeks, safety in the work place, better salaries. To keep private sector workers happy and not join Unions.. they gave better salaries and benefits to keep them honest, and loyal. After the Unions were run out of town .. The wealthy saw no need to keep the private sector happy, and started to take security from them. Now here we are .. all fighting to survive and live a descent life in retirement. A very hard thing to do these days
Thanks to Us. The wealthy w help from the Repub party accomplished what they set out to do. Bring the middle and upper middle class to their knees,,so that all the money goes to the very top. 1%
January 31, 2014 at 12:48 am #803491
retired60ParticipantThe wealthy can’t keep us down by themselves … they need the Repub. party that supports just about everything they ask for. The only way we can get back to where the middleclass is strong strong, is to remove them from power/vote them out of office .. all of their foot soldiers and yes men – Repub politicians. The sooner the better.
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