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January 21, 2014 at 1:36 am #803417
skeeterParticipantHa ha WF you are so right about daughters. I’m crazy about her and could easily spoil her if I’m not careful. My wife and I sometimes talk about how I’ll have to become more mindful of this very thing as she gets older.
January 21, 2014 at 4:09 am #803418
JanSParticipantskeeter..I remember when my child turned 13 and discovered boys like electricity in the air… daddy took second place..I don’t think he ever recovered. She’s 33 and expecting her first, so watching this all over again will be something :D
January 21, 2014 at 4:36 pm #803419
JoBParticipantskeeter..
back when unpaid wages and pensions had the highest priority in bankruptcies..
back when a bankruptcy meant a company ceased doing business
defined pension plans were a good deal for the recipients..
right now you look at your stock portfolio which is presumably growing and you think… look what i will have for my retirement
i don’t know how to tell you this…
but that is what the now out of luck boomers thought about their pension plans :(
January 21, 2014 at 5:08 pm #803420
skeeterParticipantThat’s a valid point JoB. Essentially all our retirement savings is in the stock market. If there was a crash and no recovery then we’ll be eating beans. Both of us are paying into social security so hopefully we’ll have that.
January 21, 2014 at 8:43 pm #803421
JoBParticipantwhat we need to do is figure out some method of either turning social security into a real retirement plan or securing retirement plans
because the stock market is not the answer
January 21, 2014 at 10:23 pm #803422
amaliaParticipantI much rather go without gadgets and “nice” cars and have money to do what I want. So I went to a college I could afford until I starting getting scholarships, got funded for my graduate degrees, and used my education to get a good job where I exceled but worked too hard and began not to like it. BUT because I have always been thrifty and never had debt (mortgage aside), I was able to put enough money aside (a modest amount, not a fortune) to leave the $$$ job and work under research grants only, essentially paying the bills and doing what I love and leaving a positive legacy. I realize that I’m lucky to be healthy, but I also work at that and have bought insurance for myself now that I’m grant-funded only.
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I will never regret driving a 1989 Camry and wearing second-hand clothes and riding a bike and eating in – and hey, I have a flip-phone now! Living large! So that was MY retirement strategy.
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Those young ‘uns with new Macs every year, new phones, iPads… wouldn’t you rather travel, learn, volunteer, and know you’ll be able to take care of yourself when you’re old?
January 21, 2014 at 10:53 pm #803423
JoBParticipantamalia..
it sound like you have made a good plan for yourself.
i hope you stay lucky and it works
January 22, 2014 at 3:37 am #803424
JayDeeParticipantI am a early 1960s boomer hoping I can make it last. I heard last week that the US workforce loses 100K boomers to retirement (or leaving the work force by choice) and I thought that was a revealing number. It used to be that a “jobs” report with less than 150K new jobs was considered treading water.
I hope I can work to 65, but that is riding on many things out of my control (random health luck, and the vagaries of consulting). I cross my fingers and hope our economic system of endless growth finds a solution without rapid deflation.
January 22, 2014 at 4:47 pm #803425
JoBParticipantJayDee.. a huge amount of America’s wealth is fleeing America’s shores to find somewhere where the cost of living allows them to maintain their lifestyle on dwindling funds
we have not yet decided whether to be part of that move… I suspect it may depend upon my swiss cheese brain’s ability to learn spanish .. or portugues.. or french :)
i have enough trouble finding words in english :(
January 22, 2014 at 5:03 pm #803426
littlebrowndogParticipantAlong with foolish consumerism as one possible reason for insufficient funds in lat years, I think there are life circumstances that are virtually unimaginable to some. For example, not just personal illness but also raising a medically fragile child whose care needs are so great that from birth through adulthood they require that a parent is a continuous caregiver 24 hours a day, not for the first 18 years but for the first 50 years. The Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid funds don’t begin to cover cost of care to the point that the parent can work outside the home in many cases. Or what about the Veteran with a lifelong major disability. Most don’t have the happy ever after life we see on the news when the Wounded Warrior Project provides an accessible new home. I could go on and on about the virtually unimaginable circumstances. Planning and saving are fantastic and should be strongly encouraged, far more than they currently are. We should just know that for any one of us there can come circumstances that can rip those plans to shreds. So I wou ld also like to see more planning for creative options.
January 22, 2014 at 5:11 pm #803427
littlebrowndogParticipantThese thoughts about shared housing come to mind for me in planning for my future.
http://newoldage.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/15/roommates-of-a-certain-age/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0
January 22, 2014 at 6:16 pm #803428
amaliaParticipantEven with insurance, medical costs can make it impossible to save any money. It is a tragedy. I lived in Canada for a while, and say what you will about socialized medicine, but that was never a worry. Even though I was on a research visa, I got a Social Insurance Number and was fully covered. It was bliss.
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I really feel for those people you describe, LB Dog. It is unfair that people are penalized when they are sick or caring for someone who is, through no fault of their own.
January 22, 2014 at 9:57 pm #803429
JoBParticipantmy girlfriends and i have often joked about our retirement plan.. bitches by the beach.. shared housing with a live in jack of all trades or two to do the heavy lifting.
we have joked about it.. but it is likely that something resembling this will be our best option.
January 23, 2014 at 4:59 pm #803430
amaliaParticipantActually, JoB, that sounds like an attractive option. Like an assisted-living home, but you make your own rules and decide who gets to live there. Eventually you’ll want someone with a medical background in addition to the handyman.
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Seriously, it really does sound like a good plan for people without partners or those who outlive their partners.
January 23, 2014 at 5:08 pm #803431
wakefloodParticipantThere’s a web-based model there. Match.com for seniors who want to make multi-person living arrangements. :-)
Who’da thunk that the 60’s commune would come back in vogue?? With a few modifications, of course.
Not sure if the S/D/R&R will be as big a part of it in this iteration or not? ;-)
January 23, 2014 at 5:27 pm #803432
JoBParticipantwake..
oh no.. not the 60s commune again..
great theory but i remember how that one actually worked:(
i want to be waited on in my old age..
not be the community workhorse.
January 23, 2014 at 5:28 pm #803433
JoBParticipantamalia..
one of my friends is trying to figure out how to make what she is now calling respite care fund her retirement…
January 23, 2014 at 6:03 pm #803434
wakefloodParticipantJoB: Ha! Now why did I suspect that you’d be one of the ones working your a$$ off to make the place function and looking with disdain on the slackers who were wondering why everyone was so uptight about everything?? ;-)
I’m sure a few of those folks got an earful or two.
Here’s another thought on legitimizing multi-person living situations. I wonder if there’s a reason to create a small but functional set of legal documents that authorize the roles of the parties (live-in handyman, caregivers, etc.) that would delineate responsibilities and prevent confusion if something goes wrong.
(I’m thinking about issues of liability with regards to accidents, property damage, etc. Also, If something like this took off around the country – and I think it should! – you’ll have retirement facility lobbyists looking to shut it down or make it hard. See: shared cars vs. taxicab lobby.)
January 23, 2014 at 7:26 pm #803435
JoBParticipantwakeflood
the legal issues are a real problem.
if you contract with someone for healthcare services you run the risk of crossing the line into retirement homes and the regulations that come with them… at least you do in Oregon where my friend lives.
i don’t know what the process was here, but in the 40s in Oregon the AMA went after people who were running rest homes… basically respite care… and were able to shut them down by instituting regulations which made them financially unfeasible… forcing those same people into hospitals.
basically the same thing some states are now doing with clinics they suspect may refer women for abortions…
We have revisited the regulations that used to strangle midwives … it’s time to do the same with those that strangle cooperative living arrangements.
January 23, 2014 at 7:28 pm #803436
JoBParticipantwake..
i could literally put a commune together from the ground up… i have…but getting everyone equally invested in doing the chores necessary to keep it running.. not so much :(
January 23, 2014 at 9:01 pm #803437
wakefloodParticipantI wonder if Booth Gardner and the end of life advocate group(s) he worked with touched on this issue in a tangential way?
Maybe they have some insights on that element of legality and who supports/opposes what, legally? At least as it pertains to health care professionals…
January 24, 2014 at 1:59 am #803438
littlebrowndogParticipantI think it is the Adult Family Home model in this state that could be scaled back to just be a few people choosing to live together. For example, I know that up to 6 unrelated adults can choose to live together without needing a boarding home license or AFH license. I know that any household can choose to hire a housekeeper. I know that any person can choose to hire a medical provider. So I think finding out for sure what the defining issues are that constitute an AFH (I have a good idea but not total certainty) and then stepping back from that a bit would then be just an ordinary private household that chooses to hire people to perform certain tasks. If you wanted those various task performers to live in, they would have to be among the 6 or fewer residents.
January 24, 2014 at 2:03 am #803439
JoBParticipantlittle brown dog ??????
“(1) Any person or entity must have a license by the department to operate an adult family home.
(2) No person or entity may provide personal care, special care, and room and board for more than one resident without a license.”
January 24, 2014 at 2:55 am #803440
littlebrowndogParticipant#1—right, which is why I am suggesting find a way to accomplish many of the same ends but know what the dividing line is between an AFH and a few people just choosing to share a household.
#2—so that would speak to the issue of having a live in caregiver. However there is nothing that says I cannot share a house with a few friends and we hire a yard service, a housekeeper, a chauffeur, a nurse who stops by every now and then , etc.
January 24, 2014 at 3:38 pm #803441
JoBParticipantlittlebrowndog
my understanding is that you can get around the laws .. as long as any medical personnel you hire are only there to assist you.
what we need is a mechanism to allow groups of people to legally gather together to establish cooperative living arrangements that can include some level of on-site medical assistance without having to comply with the rules and regulations for Adult Family Homes…
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